I can understand when somebody is
excited they just had a child a son you
know but when people start to attribute
God having a son what are they actually
trying to say I don't really get this
yeah well that's actually a big
discussion been going on for a couple of
thousand years at least or more doesn't
make no sense to me well H you'll have
people that'll try to make sense out of
that to you as a matter of fact this has
been the topic recently when East Meets
West when the Muslims and the Christians
get together that's like one of the
favorite topics to hit on real quick can
God have a son in fact let's do a
program called can God have a son we
should oh that's your cameras are on why
don't we do it now let's start it up we
got you we got you in the house go for
itum
Allah there's only one God and muhamad
is his
messenger
thank you again for being with us sh on
the show they caught us in the middle of
a conversation so I want to know what
are you trying to tell me what are you
trying to say that God actually let's
look at the question what is the
question we're saying can God have a son
like a baby can God have a son that we
you hold that it suckles and gets milk
from its mother that it comes out of a
woman all right let's let's draw some up
at least some basic uh
ground rules for the discussion I think
that's only fair let's get to the
perimeters well yeah because what we
want to lay out from the beginning are
we going to have a rational discussion
or an irrational discussion if somebody
said for instance God can do anything oh
there's no sense in having any
discussion anymore because that God
could disappear God could run away God
could die God could blah blah blah blah
blah because when you say something
anything then there's nothing left to
discuss mhm but when you look at it from
a rational point of view this is when
you're able to understand what we're
talking about and if you really want to
have people to listen to your points of
view if you want to talk about your
particular faith it is important to have
a rational
discussion very yeah and now let us take
from from the beginning before we talk
about a son let's ask the question can
God do anything because that is the
premise of what I'm saying here is I'm
going to say no God doesn't have a son
of course you know that but but why am I
going to say that okay what are my
evidences first of all I'm I'm going to
say that that God doesn't have human
limitations on him and when you say
anything you're actually going to do the
reverse of what you think you're going
to do let me show you why if you say God
can do anything one of the things
they're going to say is can God make a
rock so big nothing can move it now
let's run that by again can God make a
big rock yes can he make it really dense
really heavy yes can you make it so
heavy that nothing can move it yes he
can okay even he can't move it now what
what's the answer now you're stuck you
just walk straight into an
irrational conversation without
realizing it because you didn't set the
ground rules before you got there what
you start from the beginning you say
God doesn't have any
limitations and when you say he doesn't
have any limitations whatsoever you're
talking about human limitations but now
you're going to have another problem but
if you because you're not defining God
properly let us look from God's point of
view and how will we know that you won't
you won't know that unless you have
scripture now we maintain that we have
the Quran in the original we've talked
about in many of our programs we have a
program online if anybody wants to go
it's called Allah's Quran a l l AHS
q.com and if you go to the website you
can understand why we're saying this
that this is a good way to start it's a
good foundation having said that let's
consider that if you understand that God
is without human limits
then he is the only one who will
determine what he is who he is and how
he is that's up to him and what we know
about God is he is the ultimate in the
epitome of each of his characteristics
it means that God is all living he
cannot die because he's alive that's one
of his names
aligh he doesn't die so you say can God
die no oh that's something he can't do
hold on a second that's something he
doesn't do because he doesn't have the
same kind of limits you and I do he was
Without Limits but he never ever stops
being God so if he did something that
was ungodly then he wouldn't be God when
he did it for instance he doesn't
cheat well how could he cheat he owns
everything anyway how could he LIE
there's no reason for it there's no
benefit for him so he's not going to lie
it's not a Godly thing to do he doesn't
commit adultery well first of all he
doesn't copulate he doesn't have
intercourse this is not something God
does when God creates according to the
Bible according to the New and Old
Testament and according to the Quran
itself whenever God wants anything done
he says be and it
is and so if you understand that about
God why are you going to put him in this
kind of a condition why you going to try
to put him in your little finite mind
and say oh God can or can't do this God
can no no you don't say it like that you
stop and go back to what he says about
himself in the Bible and then we're
going to go back and talk about numbers
23 verse 19 here's where he said God is
not a man it's as simple as that and God
is not the son of man it's as clear as
that so anyone who claims to be a son of
man or a man cannot be God not according
to that verse if you accept the Bible as
legal testimony now for me I don't need
to worry about what this English
translation Bible says I'm going to go
straight to the The Authority which is
the Quran in the original language and
it still says the same
thing and that's in chapter 112 of the
Quran he is not the father of anything
he's not the son of anything this the
exact same statement here so can God
have these things if it doesn't make any
sense that God is going to have things
related to the creation Now I want I
going to take you to another subject now
let's go straight to this about son of
God I wrote a a paper some time back and
it is called son of who son of who now
this means that we're going to be of
course focusing on the prophet Issa or
Jesus we as Muslims have the right to
discuss this amongst ourselves without
outside interference because this is
something relative to us this is our
property because it's in the Quran that
we have a prophet we Muslims have a
prophet who's called Isa Isa
he was born as a miracle birth to
Mariam and there's no human intervention
here there's no compilation there's no
intercourse there is Mary who is a very
young girl she gives birth to a baby no
man has touched her she's given word
about that ahead of time by the angel
the angel jabriel or Gabriel comes to
her and tells her she's going to have a
baby she asks how is this possible when
no man has touched me the angel tells
her for God
Allah this is a simple thing whenever he
wants anything done he says fire be and
it is so we see immediately that it was
the command of Allah we also find that
it says in the
Quran which means the word of God God's
word or Allah's word this is translated
from the Aramaic to the con Greek which
is the more famous to the Christian
they're not familiar with the original
language they're actually more with a
secondary language here it says logos
they say Jesus is the logos logos simply
means word that's all it means K Greek
means word translated from cal cal word
God spoke the word and the word became
flesh what is the problem just because
God spoke a word and it became flesh
doesn't mean it's God's son it doesn't
mean it's a part of God after all in the
beginning when he created everything he
said be and the world isn't his son is
it the universe is his son why do you
make that kind of connection he said be
and it is let there be light so what
light is the Son of God that doesn't
make any sense no so these are some of
the things that you have to take into
consideration when people are going to
have these kind of arguments or
discussions about who is Jesus who is
this person called the Christ ah the
fact that he's called the Christ that
proves he's the son of God somebody
might say that well what are you talking
about Christ is nothing but a k Greek
word coming from Christos Christos is
the K Greek and then they angiz it by
dropping the S
off and just like they did with logos
when they took off Loos and made it logo
you have a business don't you mhm and in
your business don't you have a logo a
logo is that's where it came from K GRE
it means a word logo means a word you
have a logo and that represents a whole
idea a single logo represents a whole
concept is there anywhere I want to know
the one that I love I love Jesus as a
Muslim yes I love Jesus you have to I
Love Jesus you love Jesus of course and
now this not an option it's not even a
discussion point so tell us from the
words of our beloved Jesus did he ever
explicit statement say I am God's only
son I am God's begotten son God is my uh
literal father that I am God's son we
don't know from the Bible but we know
from the Quran I say we don't know from
the Bible because the biblical Scholars
themselves and I would like to mention a
few we had the recently we had Dan
Brown's the D Vinci Code that came out
and clearly exposed a lot because they
were quoting although was a fictional
story the quotes that he gave and the
information he gave was based on real
Scholars work yes in fact those same
Scholars sued him for plagiarism I don't
know if they w or not it's not the point
also we have another scholar by the name
of Richard Elliot fredman who wrote the
book called who wrote the Bible and then
we have recently another of the
Christian schols Richard Elliot Freeman
happens to be Jewish and he's talking
about the Old Testament the New
Testament Scholars have come to the same
conclusion for instance FF Bruce and
then very recently
Bart Erin Erin Erin Erin yeah he wrote
book lost christianities after that he
wrote misquoting Jesus and when you read
it you're going to say how can I have
any faith in the Bible anymore at all he
became an atheist he was a died in the
world Bible thant Jesus loving you know
born again Christian until he started
studying at Princeton and he found out
that all the stuff he was saying and
being taught was just Heir the actual
reality what he saw in front of him
caused them to lose all faith and this
is what we do not want we do not want
Jews Christians or Muslims to lose Faith
what we want to do is come together and
come closer on what is true what can we
prove what do we got an Evidence we need
evidence we have solid evidence
authentic evidence I came to Islam
because of evidence I was clearly
motivated clearly motivated by evidence
only and and the inspiration comes to
you
comes to me after seeing evidence then I
think okay that makes sense but to
blindly follow something and say this is
my faith that's Blind Faith even the
Bible that exists today in English
states that you're not supposed to do
that to have Blind Faith of blind
following the blind what is
that it's hard though when you've grown
up hearing people say over and over and
over a certain statement you can't help
but fill in the blanks there are just
certain things you're going to say
whether it's a little jingle from
television somebody starts it you finish
it something that you're used to seeing
in the news or something that you you
know hear in the streets that people
started saying you can't help but finish
it because what you've heard all your
life that's what people all they're
doing is filling in the blanks really
yeah Mary had a little lamb it has to be
what are you going to say Mary had a
little Cadillac it doesn't work it's
like what' you say so we want the people
to stop use their brain think don't let
the pastor think for you don't let this
man over here CNN think and don't
misquote things what I just said Mary
had a little lamb that's common
everybody knows that but if you misquote
it you could say uh-huh see here's a
woman who gave birth to a
sheep that's what it says Mary had a
little lamb don't you say oh this woman
had a little boy oh okay you mean by
that that she gave birth here we don't
mean that at all we're saying that she
owned it and there's a big difference if
you said God had a son what are you
saying no God owns all of his creation
including this great Messiah and Prophet
so what we have from a copy of a copy of
a copy of a copy a copy copy what's not
a copy of the original is there anywhere
in this that Jesus explicit not
implicitly says that I am uh the Son of
God no not really no he doesn't he
doesn't say I am no he doesn't he
actually says I'm the son of man this is
what we find about 83 times no one of
the things they'll say is well look
where he said I am that I am and that's
what God Said in the Old Testament I am
that I
am but you don't know what that was even
in the K Greek yeah all right for
instance there's another one that when
it talks about uh in John the Gospel of
John that in the beginning was the word
and the Word was with God and the Word
was God and God spoke the word and the
word became flesh and they use all of
this to say it was Jesus but nowhere in
those up until 19 verses after this
starts up do you find the word Jesus is
not even connected to the expression
okay but actually in the Greek which is
a translation of a translation of a copy
of a copy of whatever you know according
to these Scholars I just quoted
from in the Greek even it didn't say
that it didn't say that in the beginning
was the word the word was with God the
word god there's no
was there the word God that's it that's
how it actually is so you can't even use
that as a basis for the argument even a
copy of a translated copy of a copy of a
copy of a you can't use it because it
didn't actually say that and then we got
to go actually back to the time like if
you say today in the place where we live
in America and you say I need a lift
someone's going to think you need a riot
but if you go to England you say I need
a lift it's elevator so when you go back
to the time if you go back to the time
of Jesus peace be upon them what were
and the Jews knew this language the best
what did they mean at that time when
they referred to Son of God did they
actually mean what we think it means
today uh actually this is a good point
you're bringing up this is something
very famous in the citic world for the
Jews for the Arabs and for the people of
the Aramaic descendancy that they would
use this term Ben Ben means the son for
instance Benjamin is really Benyamin
which means the son of the right Yamin
is in means the right hand or the right
side Benyamin is the son of the right
and uh Ben katcha was one of the famous
uh tribes and in Arabic you you talk
about Ben hasham and you're talking
about the tribes of the people of hasham
the hashimites and and if you said
somebody is
Abdullah b saah or if you said that
which happened to have been a Jew who
came to uh
Islam uh somebody is Ben Salam he's the
son of so this is just something that
people normally say now there's another
word means the servant of so people had
servants and many times the servant
would take the name of the master as in
I am the servant of so and so or the you
know the slave of so and so and then the
and this went on for a long time until
Islam came and then it was forbidden to
say that you're a slave anymore because
God doesn't like slavery by the way
Allah doesn't like it he encourages
Muslims to free slaves all the time so
if there's slavery going on the only
real slavery should be the slave is
ultimately the slave of Almighty Allah
so
and you put AB in front of it Allah
Abdullah you heard people name Abdullah
Abdullah you probably know somebody
named Abdullah so he's actually the
servant of God servant of Allah Abdullah
yes well if somebody was using that term
abdah and then somebody else said Ben
you know Ben Allah he's actually saying
the Son of God or descendency of God so
this was someone a Pious person a
righteous person say ibben IB is another
way to say you say Ben or ibben both of
these are the same thing IB so at that
time it meant someone righteous I don't
know I'm just telling you this is the
the the words I'm not going to try to
tell you I'm not going to make up
anything what I know I'll talk about
what I don't know about say I don't know
and this is the way that if you want to
have a rational discussion when you come
to a point where you don't know
something you say I don't know and this
keeps everything on an even ke and this
is one of the things we lack a lot in
the west today is when a person doesn't
know you don't need to punt you need to
stop and say this is a case where I
can't answer that uh we'll move on I see
okay we we're gonna answer uh ask a
couple more questions before we come to
a close so let's go back to we we jumped
into the Bible a little bit let's stay
there and then we'll go away from there
but real quickly if you
take where people are saying uh Jesus is
the son of God we can go back and say
okay let's be fair all across the board
because the the Bible actually has Sons
by the tong you know Adam was a Son of
God David was a Son of God so why
explicitly only to Jesus you give us
some examples here all right again we
know in Prophecy from the Quran as
Muslims but also for the Jews in their
prophecy they still have they're holding
on to they talk about one who will come
who is the anointed and the appointed
one to be the king of the Jews and this
expression is is used in the Bible and
it's understood in Arabic as well as the
one who is chosen the chosen one and
this is the one chosen not by the people
but chosen by God and this is the point
of being chosen okay so when you talking
about the chosen
one the the Jews themselves chose their
kings they through their own Electoral
College like we have today and chose
from their Elite chose who should be the
king amongst them and when they chose
him then they would give allegiance to
him by anointing his head with oil they
anointed his head it's mentioned in the
Bible the anointing oil and anointing
the king and they would take this olive
oil it's olive oil from the holy land
and then they would put this on his
forehead and the act of doing this in
the Arabic language is called mes mes or
wiping literally this is mess wiping so
it meant though anointed chosen so he's
called
theiah m m and it was translated English
messiah messiah so he is the chosen the
appointed the anointed the king of the
Jews chosen by God this is what it means
and that's where it comes from so if you
said is Jesus the Messiah the Jews say
absolutely not because they are
expecting him to come their Messiah has
to come and lead a physical uh fight
against their foes to lead them as a
military structure and overcome the
oppressive rulership over them that was
what they had at the time of jesus'
birth which was the Roman Empire they
were subjugated to the Romans at that
time and they had a horrible time they
were they were horribly punished and
treated bad now we understand it as
Christians do that in fact Jesus himself
was the Messiah he was the Messiah
but he left he's with God and he will
come back this is what we believe this
is what most Christians believe this is
accepted now recently the Catholic
church has overturned that and said
let's don't talk about that anymore
maybe he's not coming back let you know
don't go into that anymore but for us no
we're staying right on it because we
have it from the prophet Muhammad peace
be upon him in fact Jesus was the
Messiah he was before me and he'll be
after me he's going to come again and
that's how it is and this fifth exactly
with some of the prophecies in the New
Testament from what's the surviving of
it so we see Jesus peace be upon him as
not a son a literal Son of God but we do
see him as the Messiah as the Christ cuz
in K Greek Christos means anointed or
chosen the appointed one so there's no
difference Christ means messiah messiah
means chosen the one that's coming and
he came so okay what's the big deal how
do you translate that to become a Son of
God there's no word son related with it
some of the other things Miracle birth
this is another way let's change subject
now the miracle birth Jesus had no
father okay that's it he must be God's
son no not not necessarily not
necessarily let's go back and look at
Eve Eve is created out of Adam so do you
call God her
mother no well if you want to give the
exact same application if you want to
use a rational argument you have to do
that then have you said
because uh Jesus had a mother okay which
is Mary but no father therefore God is
the father then go let's go back to Eve
and say well ah she didn't have a mother
so therefore God's her
mother no and even then there still no
reason to worship Jesus if he even if he
was which he wasn't but still you didn't
worship Eve did you so why you
worshiping Jesus and by the way while
we're on the subject of fathers and
mothers
who was the father of Adam and who is
the mother of Adam and in fact he didn't
have either he was created from
dirt I think a woman coming from a man's
bone is pretty wild that's a miracle
don't you yeah and I think a woman
coming from uh from a man is pretty wild
and then what about a man being born of
a woman coming out of her womb but no
man has fertilized the the egg that's
not as big a miracle it's a miracle but
not as big cuz there are animals today
that are
asexual there are bees female bees that
can give birth to a male bee and there
was no
intercourse so but how about this and
let's go to the big one Adam had no
father no mother came out of dirt if you
want to worship somebody based on their
creation Adam is in line he's the guy to
go to yeah if you want to use that as a
argument and of course we don't worship
Adam either we worship the god that
created Adam from dirt we worship the
god that created Eve from the bone we
could worship the god of Jesus and Jesus
was created of a woman who had never
been touched by a man and in any case
you look at it any of the Miracles that
any of the prophets did were still from
God according to the prophets themselves
I don't do anything of myself I do it by
the one who sent me the one above the
one in Authority the one who's the
creator the one who allows these things
to be done they attributed to Jesus but
in fact even the Miracles that he did
about the leprosy of at the time of
Moses it says in the Bible he put his
hand into his coat and he pulled it out
his hand was leprosy snow he put it back
in pulled it out again and it was clean
in the Quran it says that he put it in
came out shiny it didn't say it was
leprosy but beside the point if you want
to say something here what happened to
his hand and want told talk about coming
back to life what about the dry bones
the dry bones of Ezekiel that they used
to bring dead people back to
life that was long before Jesus so
bringing somebody back to life also
doesn't mean Jesus Is God or a son of a
god it means he did miracles to show
people he was who he said he was he was
the Messiah he was the one who was sent
and the Jews for the most part ignored
it disowned him and really wanted to do
him in they didn't want to accept and
now we as Muslims we accept that he was
one of the mightiest messengers of God
absolutely so please give us in the
audience some advice those who now are
just feeling in the blanks they're going
along with something that their
grandfathers their fathers taught them
something that actually you believe
being a former Christian preacher
Minister give some advice to those who
are still stuck on this concept one of
the things I would do is just quote to
you from two sources and let you thank
for yourself I want to go to the Quran
it says in Quran chapter
39 uh first 53 it says say oh my
servants who have transgressed against
their souls do not despair of the mercy
of Allah for Allah forgives all sins for
he is all forgiving most merciful if
anyone we're going to se chapter 4 verse
110 if anyone does evil or wrongs his
own soul but afterward seeks Allah's
forgiveness then he will find Allah
forgiving most merciful chapter 2 Surah
bakarat verse 21 it says oh you people
adore Your Guardian Lord who created you
and those who came before you that you
may become righteous this is showing you
who is Allah cuz this isn't Jesus this
is God this is the one that Jesus also
needs this relationship with him we're
talking about
relationship and in
Mark here we have Jesus now go to the
Bible it says why do you call me good
there's none good but God
Alone God is good he's saying now don't
call me that and in 5:17 don't think
that I came to abolish the law and the
prophets I came not to destroy but
rather to fulfill the
prophecies and not until all things are
accomplished s a single dot jot ioda of
the law being any Wise lesson whoever
breaks the least commandment and teaches
this he will be the uh the least in the
Kingdom but whoever keeps Commandments
and teaches that he'll be the highest in
the Kingdom so we see clearly that Jesus
is talking about keeping the law
following God and the relationship and
this is the you want the cap to the
whole thing that we're talking about yes
you ready yes
question who did Jesus pray to and why
why did Jesus pray and to whom did he
pray it's a good question let them
Ponder and think now we got a website
for that we got a good website it's
called yeah it's called Bible islam.com
Bible islam.com and if you've been some
of other website you already know about
Islam code.com you know also about the
other one we mentioned in the program
when we were talking about
911 Bible but any of them you go to
you're going to find similar stories
that will help you thank you again for
being with
us and I'd like to thank everybody for
tuning in to the dean show every week on
The Dean show we try to bring you a new
episode and just to recap God doesn't
have a son God cannot be a man God is
distinct from his creation and if you
can dig worshiping the Creator and not
his creation then you can dig Islam and
that's the main message to worship the
Creator and not his creation and to obey
his commands and at the end you got
Paradise so we'll see you again every
week stay tuned a new show and you can
also visit us on the Deen show.com and
the other if you have any uh questions
regarding the Bible 911 bible.com and
we'll see again on the dean show asalam
alikum peace
[Music]
be
for