thank you very
much peace be unto
you I welcome you all today for a very
special event and it pains me that we
have to have this event on such
beautiful weather after so many weeks of
cold and even yesterday flurries of snow
a day that we should have been out side
frolicking with joy we are now here
listening to an academic talk but
nonetheless what needs to be done needs
to be done and as I Was preparing uh
this lecture uh it it was daunting uh to
say the least because there's so much to
say and the message that I want to give
today is a message that certain segments
of Islam and certain segments of
mainstream America find unpalatable
because it is a message that is critical
at once of certain elements of the
Muslim
understanding of Islam and also of
certain actions and policies that we
have undertaken and so by the end of
this lecture you'll understand why
someone like myself is getting attacked
from both opposites we have members of
the far right and we have members of
Islamic radicals both basically
attacking me and you'll kind of
understand why and to make it all
possible I have to summarize My Views
and stances in around half an hour so
here goes today's talk is going to to
revolve around three broad topics
firstly the rise of Isis and what Isis
is and is Isis even Islamic or not how
do we view this as Muslims secondly some
context as to why and how Isis came
about and thirdly some personal
Reflections and comments and on what we
can do uh what should be done to uh
battle uh Isis so to answer the first
question Isis is a extremist Rebel group
group that Now controls large swads of
Iraq and Syria it is officially an
offshoot of al-Qaeda it actually was
called the al-Qaeda of Iraq aqi and it
broke off in around 2008 2009 because of
theological and methodological
differences and although still the
actual players and the leaders behind it
remain murky and hide behind n dear it
really does appear that it's its
military operations seem to date back
from around uh 2008 and it has achieved
purely from a political standpoint
phenomenal success particularly when it
captured the Iraqi city of mosul which
is one of the largest cities of the
region in fact it's a similar size City
to Memphis so imagine a radical Fringe
movement conquering a city uh like
Memphis and this actually gave it
impetus the bravoo to announce a
worldwide Global caliphate last year
less than a year ago in June of 2014 and
all analysts who talk about Isis all
political scientists they're surprised
and shocked at how successful Isis has
been again purely from a political
standpoint in a very short period of
time they have for all intents and
purposes carved out a new political
entity they have functioning government
bodies they're paying their employees
relatively good salaries for the region
they're running court systems that
resolve disputes even between members of
the broader public and there are many
other tangible forms of government in
fact even it is alleged they've issued
their own currency now this is a version
of a terrorist organization that we have
not seen before an organization that has
achieved a modicum of political success
and Independence no other terrorist
organization has really achieved this
level of political success and
Independence
albeit its success is one that is
hampered by a number of things most
prominently of course is its sheer
brutality it's sheer brutality I do not
need to list for you in this room the
gruesome realities of this organization
from its taped and broadcast beheadings
to its reintroduction of Slavery to its
treatment of women to its treatment of
all those who disagree with it to its
expelling and massacr ing of many
minority populations such as the yazidis
of Iraq and the yazidis of Iraq were a a
a a uh Gnostic type of group with an
Islamic ethos and they had been living
in Iraq for around 7 800 years and uh
Isis viewed them as simply being outside
the fold of of even human to be honest
and tried to or attempted to Massacre
them and so on and so forth and the
Muslims around the world have continued
to criticize Isis and dissociate from
from its tactics the fact of the matter
is that there is hardly any
acceptability of Isis in mainstream
Islam the grand muties of every single
country have publicly condemned Isis
perhaps the most significant response
was a very public letter to the this
self-professed kff which was called a
letter to Al bagdadi cuz this
self-professed caleff calls himself Abu
Bakr Al bagdadi and in fact there's a
website online that's called a letter to
Al badi.com literally www a letter toal
bagdadi
docomo by Point using legal juristic
terminology about the Theology and about
the methodology of Isis and it was
signed by over 120 of the foremost
clerics across the entire globe and
there were a handful of American clerics
as well who were asked to sign and I was
honored to be uh of the signatories of
that document and my name is still on
that uh document and this letter and it
is translated into English and of course
it's written in Arabic it's translated
to English and farsy and so many other
uh languages uh this letter is an
extremely technical letter written
within the framework of Islamic jurist
prudence and challenging isis's
interpretation of jihad isis's
interpretation of killing innocent
people uh their treatment of minorities
and a host of other factors and truth be
told people say you know why don't
Muslims criticize Isis why don't Muslims
speak out against Isis the fact of the
matter is that the Muslim World by and
large has been screaming and shouting
its dissociation from Isis all you need
to do is walk into any Islamic Center
anywhere and ask anybody there is zero
support for this organization really by
and large across the uh globe and the
history of our tradition is enough of of
an indication of the aberration of this
entity never in our 14 centuries have we
had a caliphate with the type of
barbarity the type of viciousness that
we see in Isis a simple reality check
this movement or this group known as the
yazidis they lived in Iraq for 800 years
and Iraq is a Muslim civilization and
the capital of the Abbasid caliphate for
for 550 years was in Iraq nobody treated
the yazidis like this until the rise of
Isis yazidis have always lived amongst
the broader Muslim population and the
Very fact that they're being expelled
for the first time and their lives are
being threatened for the first time
indicates that these types of
understandings truly are an aberration
from mainstream Islam and therefore is
Isis Islamic well it depends on what you
mean and there is a huge issue in debate
uh a very famous article came out in the
Atlantic of the last month uh called uh
what Isis really wants and it was
written by Graham wood and this article
uh claims that Isis is very Islamic and
this article actually became the most
read article ever in the history of the
Atlantic that's saying something the
Atlantic has been published for over 130
years I think I myself am a subscriber
as well by the regular subscriber and
the the most read article ever in the
history of Atlantic was this article
this article gener generated a huge
controversy especially from many
academics and American Muslims who
strongly disagreed with some of the
premises of this article and I was
interviewed along with graham Uh Wood on
NPR and you will find it as well uh on
my Facebook and Twitter that we had a
very interesting back and forth uh and
it was was on on on on NPR and you can
listen to that where I pointed out what
I believe were in inconsistencies and
incorrect uh assumptions that he made
but the point being one of his claims
was that Isis is Islamic because they
claim to be Islamic because they're
acting in the name of Islam and my
challenge to that was well in that case
maybe from your perspective as a person
outside the faith Traditions all claims
to Islam are equally legitimate but give
us the right as Muslims and as Muslim
theologians and as Muslim preachers and
clerics to decide for ourselves what is
truly Islamic and what is unlam because
the article actually attempted to say
anybody who says Isis is not Islamic is
whitewashing uh uh the religion of Islam
they have no right to speak this way and
I said how fair is it to equate let's
say any terrorist organization from the
Christian religion from the Christian
faith tradition or from the Jewish faith
tradition to extrapolate all of it and
to claim that was also Christian or
Jewish and I gave you the example of one
such organization and that is the IR
uh and the IRA of course uh is well
known it was a a Catholic uh resistance
movement if you like or organization
that had its grievances against England
and it was definitely from within the
Catholic Paradigm and they were very
anti-protestant much of the language
they use was anti-protestant and they
adopted this sectarian divide to further
their political grievances one of my
main criticisms was imagine writing an
article about how Catholic the IRA was
ignoring everything about the political
Grievances and differences that the
Irish had with the broader British uh
public and only emphasizing the Catholic
nature of the IRA imagine saying the IRA
is Catholic very Catholic which is what
Graham wood said about Isis Isis is
Islamic very very Islamic well so is the
IRA but the Grievances of the IRA the
the the reason why the IRA exists has
nothing to do with Catholic ISM there
are issues that transcend theology but
these are religious people and they're
viewing what's happening in a religious
light the same analogy also applies to
Isis is Isis Islamic frankly as an
academic I say if you're speaking from a
purely academic standpoint yes because
they're coming from the Islamic
tradition but as an American Muslim as a
theologian as a jurist I say no Isis is
not embod the values of Islam so is Isis
Islamic are you looking at Islamic as a
noun or an adjective if you're looking
at it as a noun yes these are Muslims
they're claiming to act in the name of
Islam if you're looking at it as an
adjective are they embodying what
mainstream Muslims around the globe view
as being Islamic then the answer is a
resounding
no and all you need to do is to look at
the numbers the CIF the so-called kff
has made a global announcement that all
Muslims around the world should join his
movement everybody should come and
migrate to his lands and swear to him
the oath of allegience and fty okay so
there's around 1.6 billion Muslims in
the world and technically Islam has not
had a caliphate since the early part of
the last century 1927 was when the
caliphate was abolished so Muslims have
not had a c for almost 100 years now we
have this this Pretender to the throne
he is saying he's the caleff he's
issuing a global call all is Isis
Islamic let's see how many Muslims
responded highest estimates around
20,000 fighters from around the world
have answered the call that's the
highest estimate 20,000 of course the
bulk of them from Middle Eastern and
Arab and and and Pakistan and India and
a handful yes from America and from
Europe Europe as well a few hundred uh
maybe even up to a thousand from All
European countries combined so 20,000
roughly Muslims have responded to the
call of This Global kff let's put that
into perspective what is 20,000 compared
to 1.6 billion it is
0.125% of the Muslim world to claim that
Isis is Islamic is to claim that
0.001% of a group somehow symbolize the
entire group to put that into
perspective let's look at the KKK in
America at the height of its popularity
Which is less than 100 years ago the KKK
had a paid membership of around 4
million people this is in the 1920s 4
million people were members of the KKK
and everybody is aware the KKK views
itself as being a very Christian
organization if you ever come across
their pamphlets or their brochures of
the time they have Christian motifs
Christian symbols verses from the Bible
they view themselves as being legit
timid Bonafide uh Christians so in 1920
the KKK had a membership roughly of 4
million uh people and America had a
population of around 105 million which
would make the KKK around
3.8% of America's population now how
would any one of us feel if somebody
said oh America was basically KKK in the
1920s how false would that be well that
claim mathematically speaking would be
3,500 times more accurate mathematically
speaking I just put it into a
mathematical equation for you that claim
would be
3,500 times more accurate than the claim
somehow that Isis is reflective of the
entire body of Muslims nonetheless from
my perspective 20,000 even is way too
much and I am very distressed very angry
very scared as an American cleric when I
hear that even a handful of American
teenagers are contemplating or
attempting to join this group and I am
working uh very much with law
enforcement and also within communities
to make sure that zero people are
sympathetic to Isis not even five not
even 10 we want zero people but let's
keep things in perspective American
Muslims we don't have exact statistics
but roughly I would say a moderate
figure would be around 7 to9 million
Muslims in America 7 to9 million if out
of those 7 and N 7 to 9 million roughly
30 40 50 have shown genuine sympathy to
and gone over let's put things in
perspect into perspective sure it's a
problem sure we don't even want those
2030 but it is not an endemic it's not
something that the entire you know
Muslim population is somehow uh uh uh
somehow complicit in so the fact of the
matter is that mainstream Muslims the
world over have continuously rejected
Isis and dis interpretation of Islam in
fact dare I say and I have challenged
both grahe wood and actually many other
speakers on live radio and and on in
lectures I have challenged them to quote
me one reputable cleric one scholar who
had established his scholarly
credentials and then joined Isis or
somehow sanctioned Isis from anywhere in
the Muslim World Isis and these versions
of radical Islam including Al-Qaeda by
the way they don't have have a single
Bonafide trained cleric of Islam the
only people that they have are their own
youngsters that are justifying what
they're doing never in the history of
these movements have we had a reputable
scholarly person I mean imagine if you
would imagine an analogical equivalent
imagine uh a doctor or not a doctor
excuse me let's say neurosurgery let's
say right you have a certain established
practice you have famous neurosurgeons
you have a methodology imagine a new
budding medical student just fresh
graduated challenging the entire
understanding of neurosurgery saying all
of you guys are wrong and writing
pamphlets and and and books and whatnot
who would give this person any weight
this person doesn't have the scholarly
backgrounds or the skills this person
has no credibility this is exactly what
is happening with Isis is that the
established figures of Sunni and Shiite
and all other versions of Islam and
there are many Trends in Sun Islam none
of them who have established their
credibility have then signed on to join
this organization much less sanctioned
or Justified what this group is doing so
the fact of the matter is Muslims have
and continue to dissociate from uh this
radical organization and its
understanding of Islam but this leads me
to my second part of the talk and this
is where it gets a little bit difficult
or awkward but nonetheless these facts
do need to be said
the
context why why is this happening
especially in
Iraq what is going on in this region
that can explain the rise of this
radical this this militant uh
organization and what really is painful
to note and everybody here who has
studied Middle Eastern history or is an
Arab can tell you this firsthand and you
can find lots of videos online about
this as well Iraq this country was one
of The Shining Pinnacles of modern Arab
lands in the 60s and 70s up until the
80s Iraq was one of the most in fact
some would even say the most developed
and advanced country in the Middle East
it had amongst the highest literacy
rates even amongst females in the 70s
the female literacy rate reached in the
high 80% that is phenomenal for the
Middle East in uh in the'80s the '90s
the University of not the '90s excuse me
not the '90s in the 70s and 80s the
University of Baghdad which is one of
the largest universities in the Arab
world was considered to be the most
prestigious University in the entire
Middle East the number of students the
graduates the the the quality of
Education was easily comparable to any
Western institution its healthc care as
well was the product of much Envy in
other Arab countries and Frank frankly
the Iraq of today can barely be
recognized as having anything to do with
the Iraq of yester years so what has
happened from the' 70s to 2015 well no
doubt the first sign of decline began
with the almost decade long war between
Iraq and Iran and for those of you that
are above the age of 35 you all remember
this the80s were always dominated by
Iraq and Iran uh war and
this war of course was the beginning
really it decimated uh so much of the
economy millions of people uh died and
of course back then of course Saddam has
been in power since the 70s back then
Saddam Hussein was our close Ally and we
sold him plenty of weapons and for at
the time we completely ignored uh mass
human rights violations we couldn't care
less that he was gassing his own people
he was using chemical weapons against
his own uh people the Kurdish population
had their Grievances and they wanted to
uh revolt and and and bring attention to
their plight and he gassed uh thousands
of them and we ourselves sold plenty of
weapons uh to uh Iraq of course turns
out later with the Iran Contra Scandal
that we were also selling weapons to
Iran but then that's just a footnote
that's going to be relegated in the
larger uh scale of things Iraq
eventually invaded Kuwait in 1990 all of
you remember this and we LED an
International Coalition that freed this
small and oil Rich Gulf State and
19991 was when we launched Gulf War I
and we invaded Iraq but it wasn't a
full-fledged Invasion we didn't really
send ground troops to to be stationed in
Iraq nonetheless Gulf War I clearly did
decimate uh the power plants the
electricity uh uh plants of of of the
region and it is estimated more than a
100,000 Iraqis uh lost their lives as a
retaliation for Saddam Invasion we then
subjugated Iraq to a almost total
Financial trade embargo for the next 13
years beginning in 1990 and Lasting in
effect until Gulf War II which is 2003
13 years we basically blanketed we
basically cut off the entire population
of Iraq from any type of economic uh
trade and there are so many statistics
that can said but again time is limited
the average per capita income of an
Iraqi in 1989 the year before our
invasion was
$3,510 which is a good amount for 1989
for Middle Eastern country
$3,510 fast forward 5 years and that
income becomes
$450 imagine if your income were cut not
in half not in 1/3 1110th instead of
inad of getting 70 80,000 you were
getting
$7,000 a year worse by limiting the
importation of common vaccines of drugs
even of water purification resources the
United Nations Children's Fund UNICEF
itself estimated that at least half a
million children under the age of five
died as a result of this embargo and so
much can be said I just want to point
out one undeniable fact not one not two
three top level United Nations diplomats
resigned in protest one after the other
because of what was happening in Iraq at
the time beginning with Dennis Halliday
an Irishman with over 34 years as a
career Diplomat in the United Nations he
was placed in charge of the humanitarian
coordination uh uh of Iraq in the
Embargo and within a year he tried to
protest he tried to change within a year
he resigned from the UN after 35 years
and he wrote in a widely publicized oped
you can find all of this online that he
was driven to resignation and I quote
because I refuse to continue to take
security Council orders the same Council
that I imposed and sustained genocidal
sanctions against the Innocents of Iraq
I did not want to be complicit my
conscience would not allow this end
quote okay so Dennis Halliday said in
effect we are provoking or causing a
genocide those were the terms he's using
and a person who has nothing to do with
the Islamic faith he's not an Arab he is
a un career Diplomat he resigns okay we
put in charge another un career Diplomat
this is a German by the name of Hans Von
spanic within a year and a half Von
spanic another 30 plus year of the uh 30
plus uh uh work tenure at the UN also
resigns claiming that these policies
quote unquote violate the Geneva
Convention which is how you treat human
beings decently in dignity that these
policies were violating the Geneva
conventions and were causing the deaths
of tens of thousands of Iraqis shortly
after that a third Diplomat who was in
charge of the World Health Organization
stationed in Iraq also resigned citing
her protests as a result of these
policies we don't know how many other
resignations might have followed had not
another tragedy enveloped us and that is
the tragedy of sep member 11th this
tragedy of course was a turning point in
many of our uh our own policies our own
understandings again much can be said
but for for for the purposes of this
lecture let's concentrate on what
happened in Iraq obviously we all know
after 911 the tragedy of 9/11 was
intentionally misused to make a
completely false and counterfeit claim
somehow linking Iraq with September 11th
and Al-Qaeda the evidence at at the time
was completely specious and frankly even
now we're just beginning to realize how
intentionally misleading certain members
of our own government were a
congressional hearing that took place in
2004 documents this is all online this
is from our own Congress this is not
another entity our own Congressional
hearing that attempted to figure out
what's going on documented over
275 instances of what they called
blatant misinformation which is a nice
word for basically lying and misleading
uh people the former US Secretary of
State colen Powell himself apologized
publicly as we are all aware and he said
that these claims that he made in front
of the UN will and I quote forever be a
blot on my record he felt bad he felt
guilty he basically apologized well
apologies are nice even if they're just
from one person in that Administration
but it doesn't change the fact that
after 13 years of sanction after
millions of debts we then decided to
invade Iraq yet again but this invasion
was different this Invasion wasn't just
a nice clean throwing bombs as we had
done in the first golf War it wasn't
just putting sanctions it was also
sending in our troops and the effects of
this Gulf War II on the economy of Iraq
on our own troops on our own economy
including uh by the way the troops by
the way the PTSD as well and all of the
issues you know the post-traumatic
stress that that is undergoing the the
effects of this Invasion on our image
and our prestige in the Middle East all
of these are for other topics I don't
have time for all of this in one lecture
let me just quote you one statistic that
came out last week and this statistic
involves how many innocent Iraqi lives
were lost as a result of our own
Invasion the most thorough study ever
done of the casualties of Gulf War II
were just released last week a
non-government Affiliated nonpartisan
NGO called Physicians for social
responsibility and again these are all
American institutions they teamed up
with a Nobel prize winning International
Physicians for the prevention of nuclear
war the ipnw a very famous Nobel PR
prizewinning institution and they
examined in detail the toll that the war
on terror has had on the Iraqi people
the investigators concluded after a
number of years on on the ground
research that the total number of
casualties that can directly be
attributed to our Wars over the last 12
years is around
1.3 million people
1.3 million people and then they add and
I quote directly and I read the report
or portions of it today and this is only
a conservative estimate and that in all
likelihood it's probably around and
closer to 2 million now I've quite
literally just quoted you three or four
statistics and a handful of events that
have occurred in Iraq for the last two
and a half decades much more could be
said and should be studied and read on
one's own my point in bringing all of
this is very simple is it not relevant
in understanding the rise of these
radical Messianic groups to look at what
exactly has happened in that region for
the last 25 years might not some of this
somehow explain why and how such groups
do seem to be gaining some popularity
why the people of that region seem to
have frankly an insane psychotic rage
against us might it not somehow explain
now I want to be as explicit as possible
this is not an attempt to sugarcoat or
Justify or exonerate terrorism not at
all however let me give you an analogous
example and this is a controversial one
but it needs to be said here in America
here in America there is of course we
are Melting Pot and there are many
cultures here and there is a dominant
culture of one ethnicity and background
perhaps 60% of America is of one uh
ethnicity and another ethnicity another
subculture the African-Americans are
around roughly 13 to 15% now while the
percentage of African-Americans in the
broader population might be only less
than 15 we are all aware that when it
comes to prisons they're not 15% of our
prisons when it comes to the rates of
violent crime
when it comes to drug prosecution when
it comes to petty theft when it comes to
gangs then this minority becomes an
overwhelming
majority so there are two paradigms to
explain
this sadly both of them are still around
the first Paradigm which was very
popular 100 years ago sadly it's still
popular in some circles today the first
Paradigm is to say oh that's because
they they are like this that's because
their culture that's because their
values that's because well even rap
songs have been blamed as well right
they listen to rap so they're going to
become violent people and it's so easy
to fall into this US versus them we're
so holy they're so barbaric it's it's
because of who they are their upbringing
their family now that was very popular
100 years ago but over the last 100
years most of us sadly some haven't got
the memo but most of us are educated
enough to realize that the color of your
skin will not dictate your propensity to
committing crimes most of us have
realized that all human beings literally
are created equal but then circumstances
beyond the color of their skin
circumstances like education like
poverty like socioeconomic status like
lack of jobs like racism affect certain
communities more than others
circumstances like one's own history and
where you're coming from what has
happened to you and your culture and
civilization for the last 2 300 years
might possibly explain Beyond just the
color of your skin and of course this is
now the predominant thank God
understanding and interpretation that
the fact of the matter is that there's
nothing in your melatonin that will
dictate whether you're going to go into
violent crime or not however poverty
lack of Education having schools that
are so disperate and again let me be
frank here we are in one of the cities
that this is most clearly demonstrably
visible certain neighborhoods and their
schools and their lack of education and
the lack of resources versus
neighborhoods across the street so this
doesn't justify the drug dealers the
violent crimes the the whatever it
doesn't justify the people who are
involved in drugs they're still going to
go to jail this is not sympathizing this
is
contextualizing this is making one
understand and it's very awkward because
when we do this we realize hold on a sec
maybe us as a dominant culture have done
something to kind of sort of amarate or
or or or or make it easier for another
culture to to find Avenues and ways that
our own children are not going to find
those Avenues maybe our own history of
slavery of Jim Crow Laws of segregation
of depriving people of the rights that
we had maybe that somewhat maybe
somewhat explains what's going on so
what I'm asking you to do is to take
that narrative and then also apply it to
Islamic radical movements and that's
where it really requires courage because
you need to look at the mirror and ask
yourselves it's so easy to criticize
others and there's a legitimacy as I
said nobody's exonerating a a a drug
dealer or a jihadist in the end of the
day the guy who pulls the trigger
whether he's a drug dealer whether these
a Jihad is that's the one who's guilty
but as a society we need to take a step
back and ask ourselves what has caused
this young man to be so frustrated that
he doesn't find any other Avenue other
than violent crime or other than
thinking that Jihad is going to bring
about some type of solution and that is
where we really do need to take a step
back and understand what have we done in
that region for the last 35 years to
take Iraq from such a beautiful
magnificent Grand Country The Jewel of
the Arab world and now it is on the
brink of Civil War no it is in Civil War
not on the brink it is in Civil War it
is one of the most unhospitable places
that one of us would want to go how has
this happened when we look at that the
fact of the matter not all but a lot of
the responsibility falls on our
shoulders and that's why it is awkward
and difficult to do so so the question
is therefore what needs to be done what
can be done I'm an American and I'm a
Muslim cleric and I have a very unsavory
job on the one hand as a Muslim cleric
as a theologian as a jurist I do have to
point out to my fellow Muslims from
around the world and I do this all the
time online and whatnot that this
understanding of radical Islam of jihad
is unlam it is
counterproductive it goes against the
teachings of my faith and I always deal
with these people online online contrary
to popular opinion radicals are not
congregating in your local mosques no
quite the contrary we wish they would
actually come to mosqu so we can nego
deal with them one-on-one talk with them
we wish they would come out publicly so
we can actually engage with them people
who are sympathetic to Isis don't come
to the mosques they're active online
they find internet chat rooms they're
the ones
that congregate in places that they feel
so much uh Superior because 10 20 people
from around the globe are going to be in
some type of small chat room and they're
all sharing the same vision of Islam my
job yes as a cleric is to reach out to
them somehow and to convince them that
joining Isis or or or or or immigrating
to these lands is not going to help
recently in Chicago three young
teenagers were caught in attempting to
flee over to Isis 16 17 and 19 years old
that's terrifying the 17-year-old was a
lady young lady not even finished high
school I'm a parent of teenagers I'm
terrified when I read that three young
middle class suburban American Born and
Raised teenagers their parents had no
idea what was going on Rolling Stones
Magazine has a really good article I
encourage you to read that in this
latest cover uh story right now uh the
latest magazine I'm interviewed in that
as well and you'll find my name in there
as well and they interviewed the family
and they interviewed one of these uh uh
children the 17-year-old was allowed to
speak a little bit look at their
Viewpoint look at their their
understanding quite literally I know it
sounds unbelievable they literally
believe that by joining Isis they are
defending
innocence now this is their world view
I'm not of course agreeing with that
that's my of course that's why I'm
against them from their perspective
they're viewing this as Isis is the
group that is fighting for the rights of
local people practicing Muslims Sunni
Muslims when all these invasions are
going on when we supported the well not
now but we used to support the Shiite
regime of Al
Maliki Maliki last year and before that
and in that time there was a lot of
Civil War and strife sunnis and Shiites
basically going to war and by and large
the Shiites had some preference so the
sunnis felt you know neglected or or or
or sideline so Isis came out of these
political circumstances these young men
and women are naive they're romantic
they're utopic but in essence they think
that they're Freedom Fighters and of
course they're wrong but I'm trying to
impress upon you they don't think
they're becoming terrorists they think
that they're helping against foreign
invasions helping to repel despotic
regimes that by and large we have
supported in the region helping to
establish a free and independent of
course they're wrong again I keep on
making this disclaimer but if you were
to interview one of them and this lady
the journalist of Rolling Stones did
that their perspective is not one I'm
joining a terrorist movement because as
we all know the adage one man's
terrorist is another man's freedom
fighter from the perspective of these
naive kids they are defending the
freedom of the local people from
aggression and primarily whose
aggression our aggression so here's the
point in order to stop that type of
understanding we have a two we need a
two-pronged assault if you like the
first is
ideological and that is within the faith
that's my job and the job of my fellow
clerics we need to take on isis's
ideology we're doing that and I think
we're doing it somewhat effectively I
would like to say that I believe my own
efforts have achieved some level of
success because recently Isis itself uh
had a nice cover photo of me in their
magazine they actually have a magazine
and they have a nice picture of me right
smack dab in the middle of the magazine
and I made it to to their magazine
unfortunately there was a small line at
the bottom of it which was a little bit
troubling they were calling for my
assassination but apart from that the
fact of the matter is that Muslims
around the world are refuting Isis and
we need to continue to do that but there
must be another pronged attempt as well
and that is and this I say as an
American and not as a Muslim cleric and
that is as an American to my fellow
citizens even as we criticize the
brutality of Isis even as we are scared
at the rise of radical Islam I say Islam
itself does not lead to radicalization
it does not lead to terrorism rather we
as a nation need to take a step back and
begin a Frank and open dialogue about
the ethical values of our own foreign
policy about the repercussions of
supporting despotic regimes about what's
going to happen when we bomb and then
bomb and then bomb and then bomb again
when 1.3 million people are killed and
before that another million and before
that another few hundred thousand when
the Civil Society and stability of one
of the greatest civilizations that we
used to have the Abbasid caliphate 700
years ago and then the modern country of
Iraq when that is completely decimated
what is going to happen the people that
are part of Isis you know what truly
terrifies me the people that are a part
of Isis were all General human beings
going about their their daily Affairs
accountants Engineers lawyers what not
what has happened to these average
people in the last 20 years that they've
become so vicious we don't even
recognize traces of humanity in them
what has happened this is not to
exonerate them this is not to lift the
blame from them but Frank question what
would happen in a land that we love in a
land that we appreciate if similar
circumstances were to superimposed on us
for 20 30 years lawlessness chaos
bombings lack of job lack of opportunity
the destruction of Civil Society maybe
Messianic movements would emerge maybe
Cults would become popular and those
movements and Cults would attract large
groups of disenfranchised angry people
when a person's lost a father had a
sister raped a cousin killed another
killed in a drone attack maybe they're
going to start viewing the world in ways
that we don't agree with we're not
justifying but perhaps psychologically
we can understand and this requires a
very difficult dialogue what are the
effects of our own foreign policy what
are the effects of supporting regimes
dictatorships aparti governments
governments that subjugate masses of
innocent people and we keep on vetoing
resolutions that condemn them keep on
selling military uh uh uh uh equipment
to them keep on giving them Aid and turn
turning the other cheek and the entire
Muslim world is a gas at this type of
support you are going to get some
repercussions this is not justifying
this is simply pointing out the obvious
that when there are political grievances
then people who are religious will
respond to those political grievances
using the language of a faith they
believe in the language will be Islamic
but what is motivating the people is not
Islam what is motivating the people is
not the text of the Quran it is anger
that goes back to issues all of us can
at some level sympathize with so to
answer the question how then does one
fight against Isis and radical Islam as
I said there are many ways and means we
all have our job to do I as a cleric
have to keep on stressing the realities
of mainstream Orthodox understandings of
Islam and all of us Americans as well
need to understand that bringing about
peace in that region will actually be
the ultimate mechanism to keep radicals
from becoming popular and peace will not
be achieved by more bombs more invasions
more drones no peace is not going to be
achieved that way we invaded Al-Qaeda we
invaded Iraq on the pretext of al-Qaeda
and we never imagined I never imagined
that a group more radical than Al-Qaeda
would emerge what has happened in the
last 13 years we invaded thinking we'd
eliminate Al-Qaeda well we kind of did
but we created a new Frankenstein even
even worse than Al-Qaeda if we're going
to follow the same tactic again if we're
going to invade yet again throw bombs
yet again a bomb is not a nice precise
instrument of Destruction it is a weapon
of mass destruction and when you bomb a
civilization for every alleged terrorist
you kill you will kill on average more
than a thousand innocent people 1.3
million might be a statistic to me and
you for the average Iraqi it translates
as a father a mother an uncle a cousin a
son a daughter these are leg legitimate
grievances that they have and when Isis
gives them this illusion that they're
standing up to fight against the the
Tyrant then Isis becomes the David
against the mighty Goliath no matter how
unreal that is that is what explains the
rise of these radical Islamic movements
so we have a lot of work to do ahead of
us and perhaps we might disagree Muslims
Christians atheists Jews agnostics of
America we might disagree on many moral
issues many ethical issues but when it
comes to fighting radicalism of all
types Islamic or others then I think we
should all be on the same page and
instead of spading spreading hatred and
fear and xenophobia and bigotry we need
to learn to work together we need to
understand that all human beings in the
end of the day are human Muslims
Christians Jews it doesn't matter in the
end of the day what radicalizes people
are not ancient text it's not being able
to provide for your family and children
it's having circumstances that lead to
this type type of anger and therefore to
solve this problem we need that dialogue
at least to begin and we need to learn
to cooperate together even if we don't
agree about each and every theological
principle or legal ruling I think we can
all agree we want to make this world a
safer place for ourselves and our
children let's work to do that by
listening to each other by understanding
that we have much more in common than we
have not in common we have much more to
work together rather than to create fear
with each other and I conclude this talk
by asking God himself to bring about
peace in this world between people of
all Fates I am a believing Muslim there
are people who are believing Christians
and believing Christian and Jews in this
audience and people of other faiths the
one thing that we can all agree on no
religion encourages want and violence
and bloodshed every religion every
religion in the face of the world wants
peace not just for its people but for
all of humanity let people of all Fates
and people of no Fates come together and
work together for this ideal thank you
very much for listening and may God's
peace be upon
[Applause]
you so the question is what is your view
of wahhabism and uh is wahhabism
connected to the ideology of Isis uh
wahhabism is a strand of Sunni Islam uh
Sunni Islam is the dominant uh
interpretation of Islam around 80 to 80
5% of Muslims are Sunni and around
around 15 or less than 15 because
there's like 1% that are miscellaneous
neither Sunni nor Shiite sunnis and
Shiites together make 99% of the Muslim
world so uh sunnism with 85% of the
Muslim World obviously has strands
within it right similar to let's say
Protestant Christianity there are many
interpretations of protestant
Christianity and wahhabism is one
particular uh strand or interpretation
uh which is predominant in the country
of Saudi Arabia and in Qatar and
recently it has become very popular
across the globe uh to give you one
example in Egypt when there was a free
and fair election 4 and a half years ago
for the first time in over a 100 years
when when Egypt had its first democratic
election the Muslim Brotherhood won the
majority of the votes
25% of the votes went to wahhabist or
it's also called sophist parties which
really demonstrates that they are not an
insignificant minority now much has been
said about uh wahhabism or or sophism
and the fact that it has linkages to
Isis or Al-Qaeda and uh in my estimation
this is an oversimplification to the
point of almost being incorrect uh the
fact of the matter is that uh these
movements Al-Qaeda and others they have
emerged from a merging of multiple
strands of Islam multiple strands of of
of Islam and mainly they owe their uh
they owe their their Genesis to radical
Breakaway movements of the Muslim
Brotherhood that date back to the 70s
all of you that are uh uh that were uh
adults in the 1980s 1981 you all
remember this assassination of Anar
Sadat you all remember Anar Sadat was
assassinated by a very radical
organization that was a breakaway from
the Muslim Brotherhood the Muslim
Brotherhood by and large has not
resorted to terrorist activities this
organization felt we need to expedite
they broke away and they succeeded in
assassinating sadad well a zawahiri who
is now the current CEO of al-Qaeda uh
the chief of al-Qaeda was actually a
minor card carrying member of this
organization this organization that
assassinates that so he was actually
jailed for being a member he wasn't
involved in the plot he was a member so
yes salafism or wahhabism has some
effect on this on these movements uh and
you have certain theological tendencies
that that that are demonstrated so for
example uh salafism uh or wahhabism does
not endorse uh religious icons or
statues
uh pause here so Protestants and
Catholics very similar understanding
that if you go to a Protestant church or
a Catholic Church in a Protestant Church
you're not going to find figurines
statues of Mary or whatnot nor will you
find prayer being directed to Saints
whereas in a Catholic Church it might be
more common and Martin Lutheran and the
entire Protestant movement for example
uh strongly discouraged in fact
considered it blasphemy considered a
stepping stone to idolatry to pray to
these figurines and and and to invoke so
sophism is a typ of protestant Islam and
that is why sophism does not like icons
which is why certain movements such as
alqa and Isis like to destroy religious
icons that are figurines as they try to
destroy the statues and whatnot okay so
that is sophism but the militancy or the
jihadism or the radicalization that is
not coming from salafism most wahhabis
I'm using the term interchangeably
there's a minor difference we're not
going to get into this most wahhabis are
very apolitical very pacifist most
wahhabis you can consider them to be
somewhat like maybe the Amish or the
ultra Orthodox Jews where they're always
incessantly thinking about what clothes
they're wearing the purity of their food
uh you know just living very pietistic
lives and they believe that getting
involved in politics is corruptive to
the soul they want to live pure lives so
most wahhabis are very very apolitical
so rather than viewing them as somehow
being a threat or danger the fact of the
matter is that they're some of the most
innocent innocuous movements when it
comes to living in broader Society they
might have views that are that are
unpalatable no doubt about that they
view you know their views of of of
integration or of women yeah that's they
have their own but I don't view them
very different than Ultra Orthodox Jews
for example and how they view they want
to live their own lives so I don't view
Isis as being directly caused by the
Theology of uh of
wahabism um what would you advise
uh American foreign policy and how to
change uh its its um Outlook I'm not a
politician thank God I'm not a
politician I'm not a politician so I
really don't have uh concrete you know
uh things to say but my gut instinct
would be number one let's find
alternative energy sources than oil
because the fact of the matter is that
we are involved in freeing Kuwait and
being involved in the region primarily
because of oil let's be honest here
right and again I say as an American I
say this as an American that I am very
worried about the strong ties that exist
between members of our government and
between oil companies this is something
that is highly problematic and I think
that we need to be talking about this as
Americans much more than talking about
radical Islam and the Holy Quran and
whatnot that this is something that is
affecting us and we really need to ask
ourselves how much of our foreign policy
is in fact uh related to uh perhaps
personal interest that's something that
is a very difficult conversation that's
my first point that find alternative
means of energy we have plenty of
Natural Resources instead of oil you
know the wind or you know the the the
air and the the the sun solar all of
these are very great ways to to to to
make energy and the second thing I would
say is that I I believe that we as a
nation need to look at the philosophy of
our founding fathers and that from most
of our history the 17 1800s America was
actually a very isolationist country
because they realized and they knew that
getting involved in other Affairs and
other lands and other people is going to
have a repercussion and if you look at
our history for most of our history this
was our philosophy we had to be begged
almost to enter World War I we did not
want to enter World War I but we saw
there was a greater need but
unfortunately for the last 100 years or
so I believe again this is my
interpretation we've kind of veered away
and we've we've we've positioned
ourselves to be the the one and only
superpower it's as if our interests have
to be taken care of everywhere in the
world and I think this hegemonic uh uh
this tonic attitude that we have of
being this this uh massive entity that's
going to solve all the world's problems
is going to also bring many of the
world's problems to us as well mind our
own business and people are going to
mind their own business that's also one
thing that I would
recommend
uh so we have a person saying that can
you give us uh examples of definitions
of terrorist for example this German
pilot just killed hundreds of people and
if he was a Muslim he would have been
called a terrorist can you comment on
the media's uh uh standards so um I
think one of the things that if any uh
person speaks to a Muslim in the
audience and you talk about you know
what what are they irritated about I
think number one on the list would be
media portrayals how the media just
jumps on uh an event that a Muslim might
have done and then really makes a big
issue out of it and then when other
groups or other organizations do it it's
kind of not really mentioned so let me
ask you an honest question how many of
you are aware that last week a person in
Atlanta which is around the corner
attempted to place a bomb in a park and
it was just a coincidence or I would say
of course as was a religion person God
willed he get caught in doing that how
many of you been aware that there was a
pipe bomb planted in a public
park seven eight hands you know the
person who planted it he described
himself as a
patriot and he had a copy of the Quran
in the bomb or in the
materials and when he was caught he
confessed that he wanted people to
realize the threat of radical Islam so
he wanted to plant a false bomb in the
name of Islam pretending a Muslim had
done it thinking that this is going to
bring the attention of the people to the
threat of radical Islam who's the real
threat then who's the real threat right
the FBI itself on their web page has
said that the number one terrorist
threat of America is not Islamic groups
it's the far right this is not me
speaking go on to their website and look
at the number one threat that we're
facing internally domestically is not
Al-Qaeda or whatnot
it is in fact the far right groups that
are their rhetoric and their what not is
a bit frightening for someone like me I
have gotten more death threats in
America from the far right than I have
ever got I haven't got a single death
threat from within America other than
from the far right no Isis no no
Al-Qaeda nothing Isis has threatened me
5,000 Mi
away and I was asked I was interviewed
on CNN and Fox News I was asked you know
aren't you worried and scared to go to
the mosque or a conference Islamic
conference and my response was the
safest place for me in America is a
mosque or an Islamic conference I have
no fear that American Muslims are
sympathetic to Isis or whatnot but you
know why I genuinely felt threatened I'm
sorry to say this on the streets of
Memphis multiple times people have said
things to me to my wife to my children
last year some driver literally drove
quickly my wife and kids were on the
road just drove by and you know it's
just very I have been told to my face go
back where you came from you don't eff
and belong here and that is what
terrifies me somebody just literally
came up to me and bumped into me in the
market in the uh you in the um uh
shopping mall just like you know bumps
in it just mutters and walks on that's
what terrifies me yes and we have to be
honest about this as well we have a
problem of islamophobia where we're
fomenting this hatred this fear we have
a problem of people thinking that every
Muslim is somehow a terrorist supporter
or sympathizer and I will tell you as a
national American cleric who is
wellknown and travels everywhere I have
no fear of American Muslims my fear
frankly more is from the far right than
it is from American mus now of course
honestly if I were in Iraq I wouldn't
fear the far right I'd fear Isis okay
but I'm not in Iraq I'm here so that's
the point over there
um the US arms industry makes large
political contributions do you think
these tend to promote military
Solutions um again I'm not a politician
however I do recommend that you uh
Google this uh or it's on YouTube uh
Eisenhower's last speech in the White
House on YouTube Eisenhower's President
Eisenhower's last speech in the White
House the very last speech that he gave
I think it was 1959 or something the
very last speech that he gave he warned
about the
increasing uh cooperation between
military uh facilities and between arms
manufacturing
companies and how much these are
influencing our government I mean
frankly you know when our vice
presidents become vice presidents of
Halle Burton or whatnot frankly we
really do have to start scratching our
heads and wondering what is going on
[Applause]
okay uh do you what do would you like to
comment or what are your comments on the
Saudi Le Arab Coalition against against
Yemen uh and do you think this has
result in another ISIS likee
group so I commented on this uh
yesterday on Facebook that this is a
complex situation uh Isis I don't think
will directly uh benefit but it's a
difficult situation because again you
have a war going on between two equally
corrupt parties each one is fighting for
its own self-interest
and the sad reality is they drag in
sectarian conflict into
it I want to surprise you when I say
sunnis and Shiites for most of Islam's
history they might not have been
Brothers in singing Kumbaya but they
didn't kill each other right they didn't
Massacre each other this is a relatively
modern last 50 years phenomenon
relatively modern ask anybody who's an
Arab or a Pakistani Indian who's old
than 50 60 years this wasn't something
that was known but what's happened is
politics has been dragged into
theological differences right now as we
have these two countries basically at
War once again Sunni sunnism and shiism
is being
used whereas the people that are using
them are not very practicing or
believing or religious-minded each one
is interested in his own political uh
and economic interests and therefore you
know I mean as I said said I thank God
I'm not a politician as a religious
person I have to say I kind of and I
think many non-religious people will
sympathize with me we don't view
politicians in a very positive light in
that by and large many of them are more
interested in themselves and their own
agenda than in their actual people and
this is a general rule Muslim nmal
doesn't matter it's just that's the way
people are when you get to that place it
kind of you are more interested in
yourself than in the people around you
and this is what's happening Yemen and
Saudi Arabia are now at each other's you
know uh well I mean not the hthis of
Yemen which is which is a Shiite
Community they have been repressed they
have been uh not given equal
opportunities by the government for four
decades so now they've rebelled they've
rebelled and they happen to be of a
different sect so the president has
called upon the deposed president has
called upon Saudi Arabia Cohen invade
his own country sadly who's going to
suffer the most the innocent people of
both sides Sunni and Shiite that have
nothing to do with this conflict the
people on whose heads bombs are being
dropped and when those bombs are dropped
don't be surprised when they start
believing sectarian rhetoric oh the
Shiites did this oh the sunnis did this
that might actually happen and I'm just
very distressed and sad I'm not a Gandhi
in that I don't believe that peace is
always the answer sometimes you have to
go to war we had to go to war in World
War II you had to stop Hitler but I do
believe that generally speaking War
creates more problems than it solves and
therefore I'm very pessimistic about the
whole issue of of bombing people and I
am opposed to what's happening in uh the
bombing of Yemen as well um besides
ideological engagement what else can we
do to bring peace and save innocent
people from such radical groups so each
one of us needs to find our own Forte
our own passion for some of us that
might be journalism for for some of us
that might be just Community activism
for some of us that might be counseling
for others myself such as myself is
basically Islamic theology uh whatever
it is there are many many ways is to
combat radicalism the anger that these
young men and women are feeling needs to
be tapped into and channeled positively
we need to tell these disenfranchised
young men and women that you know what
it's okay to be angry it's okay to to to
be angry frankly it's human to be angry
when you see people suffering but take
that anger and channel it in a positive
manner do something productive for
society don't go and bomb other people
kill other people because then you're
going to do exactly what you're accusing
them of doing right the problem comes
and again I'll be very Frank here one of
the things I very strongly disagree with
when it comes to counterterrorism policy
is the the issue of baiting young men
and women entrapping them finding
somebody online a 19-year-old kid
typically drop out not very intelligent
usually romantic nostalgic utopic and
then seeing he has some bad rhetoric
about America then sending in undercover
people and goding this person you know
telling him yeah we'll do this we'll do
that and then all of a sudden sudden
launching a sting operation having a big
conference and you know the the chief of
police and whatnot comes out and says oh
we have now you know captured another
terrorist you know if we were to do this
on the War on Drugs targeting the petty
drug dealers or or coaxing the teenagers
to sell drugs how effective would it be
on the war and drugs tell me if we were
to go to high school and pretend oh I
have pot you want to sell it on my
behalf I have crack cocaine you want to
sell it and try to get young kids to
sell how effective would that be rather
than being effective it's a waste of our
tax dollars and more importantly it
angers other young men and women my
friend was set up he was trapped and
rather than basically engagement and
dialogue these people go more
underground and my message has always
been to all law enforcements work with
us we're on the same side as you we're
on the same side as you I don't want to
see a single kid of my community or any
Community sympathize with Isis if you
find one bring him to me let's dialogue
let me talk to him oneon-one let me ex
ract his anger and channel it in a
useful manner because I feel I can do
that and I have done that on many
occasions that's what Muslim clerics are
for let's have a intervention right
rather than a setup let's have a Jihadi
intervention okay find somebody like
this and then let's bring him and just
basically intervene and say you can't do
this anymore his family his friends and
you'll always find the people who are
sympathetic to these types of ideas are
naive they're
utopic they are young because they have
to be young to be naive right generally
speaking they're not that smart because
again all fits in with that they're
searching for identity they're
struggling to to make something of
themselves and they think that by
joining this they're going to make
something of themselves let us take
these people and rehabilitate them
within the community make them
productive and I think if we were to do
this we'd be far more effective battling
against these uh ideas
um this has all been uh answered
how do you prevent young people from
getting brainwashed I've spoken quite a
lot about this today I want to add one
more Point as well one of the problems
that we have is that many of our imams
our preachers rather than promoting
radicalism they are actually too
apolitical most of the imams of North
America are scared to talk about
politics because they have come from
repressive countries they have come from
places where if you did talk about
politics you'd disappear and be tortured
and maybe even killed so they come to
this foreign land from their perspective
and they're following the same
philosophy and this is one of the
differences between myself and many of
the older generation whom I admire and
respect but I was born and raised here
and I feel American I have no other
nationality I've never had any other
passport right I feel American fully to
the core and one of the things I pride
myself with being American with my
country is that I I have the god-given
constitutional right to speak out
against anything that I perceive my
government as doing as being unjust this
is not against patriotism it is the
essence of patriotism to speak truth to
power it is the essence of being an
American that I don't have to tow the
party line I don't have to agree with
anything that my president or government
says I have the right to disagree and
disagree with passion and I want my
youngsters to know so do you you have
that right as well come out from under
the Woodworks from under the internet
come out and and and speak your
grievances so that we can know and
address them our problem comes and we've
done this multiple times it's as if
we've criminalized descent we've
criminalized descent our young men and
women our imams are too scared to speak
out and what happens is they go to the
Friday sermon Friday sermon after Friday
sermon and they never once he a
legitimate anger that is allowed and
permissible and ethical and moral that
we should not be engaged in killing
people we should not be sending drones
we should not be having false invasions
there's nothing all it is is stuff that
has nothing to do with why he's feeling
angry be good Muslims give charity fast
Ramadan that's great but once in a while
there's got to be a social change as
well like we talk about hungry people on
the street better education we also need
to talk about some of the disagreements
we have with American policy there's
nothing wrong with that we can't
criminalize that and if our leaders and
clerics were to do this I believe that
those people that are sympathetic to
these views would be drawn out we can
engage with them we can dialogue if you
look at any of these young men and women
that have gone abroad or attempted to go
abroad to Isis none of them genuinely
engage with Community leaders top secret
planning these three kids in Chicago
none of their friends knew about it none
of the family members their local Imam
had no clue their parents woke up one
day and the three kids are Miss in not a
single hint about what's going to happen
we don't want that we want them to feel
brave enough American enough to come out
and share their grievances with us and I
think that if we all work together to
create a more open and tolerant culture
frankly a more American culture right
this would go a long way to help fight
radicalization we up 63 and then we have
10 minutes okay we have 10 minutes and
then we are
closing up for today uh
so is there anything uh that is
inherently in Islam that somehow leads
to to radicalization you know that's a
very good question it's a very Frank
question and let me tell you as a
believing and practicing Muslim as a
Muslim Theology and cleric I believe
there are certain Concepts that can be
misused and abused yes I'll be honest
with you yes certain ideas that can be
misused obviously I don't believe
they're being applied properly but are
there ideas in Islam that can somehow
generate some type of radicalism that
other groups don't have frankly yes
there are but I don't blame authentic
Islam I blame inauthentic or
misunderstanding Islam such as what I'll
give you two or three things number one
the issue of the Muslims understanding
themselves as one political entity it's
called the umah u m m ah the umah Muslim
are taught this is a standard part of
Islamic teachings that all Muslims
around the world deserve the same love
the same respect and the same defense as
any other and so the nation state
Paradigm kind of becomes secondary and
fellow Muslims feel a legitimate
grievance when they see other Muslims
being bombed other Muslims being killed
now many of you who are religious you
will understand this from within your
own church Paradigm if somebody from
your own church if somebody from your
own Community was in pain you would feel
more of a connection than somebody else
that's what it is right you just feel
more of a connection so imagine
believing that 1.6 billion Muslims are
one Global community and therefore a
problem that's happening let's say in
Palestine should affect you I can tell
you as a non-palestinian a non-arab my
parents are Indian Pakistani I didn't
grow up speaking Arabic I have not yet
been in to Palestine I can tell you
quite honestly the Palestinian issue is
one that all Muslims around the world
hold very near and dear to their hearts
they are very hurt and grieved at what's
happening in Palestine it genuinely
affects them it genuinely causes them to
feel the suffering of Palestinians for
the the brutality of what's going on I'm
not Palestinian but my heart bleeds for
them that's the reality of all Muslims
so when we continue to support a regime
that is treating Palestinians in this
way literally inhumanely for the last 50
years it's going to have its
repercussion so the concept of umah
right and then the second point that can
be misused and abused now the concept of
um was meant to help everybody of course
it could also be misused the second
concept is the concept of jihad I will
not sugarcoat when I tell you the Quran
does of course talk about Jihad Jihad
from the Islamic perspective is a noble
doctr
it's not terrorism Jihad is how we would
translate into English as just War
Theory there are times you have to go to
war and when you go to war for just
causes that war becomes Noble none of us
in this room hopefully is going to say
that fighting against Hitler was was not
a good thing we all understand it was a
good thing going to World War II we
needed to go to World War II that
understanding is the Islamic
understanding of jihad defending against
the innocent uh uh against or for the
innocent on behalf of the innocent
people fighting aggression so from the
perspective of al-Qaeda and Isis and
this is where mainstream Islam disagrees
from the perspective of Isis and
Al-Qaeda they're engaging a Jihad
against an invading not just Army an
invading nation and Country all
Americans become legitimate Targets this
is where mainstream Islam disagrees with
these movements that no innocent
civilians people that have nothing to do
you can't go and kill them but from
their perspective it's as if you invaded
us you did this all of you become
legitimate targets so there is this
notion of jihad there is this notion of
um if used properly they lead to Noble
results in my opinion because I'm a
Muslim obviously if used improperly if
you have a twisted interpretation they
can lead to Al-Qaeda and other such uh
movements um we have a question here uh
oh there's a comment here that there's
we have an archaeologist in the room uh
so he says that there is archaeological
and historical evidence that uh there
was peace and Harmony amongst the the
religions of the of ancient and medieval
Islam and he mentions for example that
uh the first mosque uh and the first
church and the first synagogue of uh
Africa have been found to be in a very
similar area or close by
region
Al okay so uh so basically there's
archaeological evidence to indicate that
the Rel religions got along very well by
and large for most of their history and
that's of course we completely uh that's
was exactly what I said as well of the
many tactics of terrorist
organizations uh one effective method
comes to mind and that is creating
social and economic outlets for
marginalized minorities some may give
loans Others May give uh scholarships uh
do you think that mosques in Iraq in the
Middle East need to step up and became
and become the main source of Social and
Eon economic relief in order to cure the
community of
terrorism ideally yes realistically how
can one mosque substitute for a
government's role there is no social
order there is no Civil Society there is
no government there is no police force
that's going to respond equally to
people there's nothing of this nature so
how can one uh mosque how can one mosque
uh take the role of an entire
civilization and Society each person and
group needs to do what it can but in the
end of the day what needs to be seen is
a fully Democratic uh system of
government that is literally for the
People by the people independent of
other
people people need to respect their
leaders and their leaders have to be
from within not installed from without
supported from without cuz those
governments are not going to be
effective look at Afghanistan we
installed a regime there they have zero
credibility amongst the broader
population I mean frankly let me be
honest here imagine if China funded one
of our own presidential campaigns and we
all knew it and the president came to
power because of just funding which you
know is not even like what we did just
funding how would broader Americans
react to this you tell me so is it
surprising when people or regimes or
dictatorships that are fully in power
because of us have zero credibility
amongst large swads of the Middle East
again the issue comes how will we attain
peace there we're going to have to let
those societies govern themselves it's
not going to be easy I know this is
simplistic to say but at least to
understand why these grievances exist is
the beginning uh uh to to solving the
problem I'll take one more question and
then I need to um I need to uh wrap up
because time is is
over um do you believe that Islam is in
need of a
Reformation a very interesting
question I actually gave a number of
talks about this recently in England and
uh and also e By the way when I was
there I also had a whole talk about
this this is a difficult question to
answer and it's almost impossible in 3
minutes one of my problems I'm a
university Professor when you ask me
these questions I can't answer in one
minute I can teach a class on Islamic
Reformation one class I taught at roads
last year was all about modern Islam and
the controversies you know I have a
class right now I'm teaching at RADS
modern Muslim fundamentalism and I we
teach Al-Qaeda and Isis you know weeks
and weeks so when somebody ask me what
do you do I say I'm teaching Jihad and
Tennessee because in reality that's kind
of what I am doing I'm teaching Jihad in
Tennessee my most popular course at
roads is is modern Muslim fundamentalism
so you ask this question is Islam in
need of a reformation and I find it
impossible to answer you in 3 minutes
nonetheless very very
quickly what do you mean by Reformation
do you mean Reformation with a capital R
in which case I would tell you why do
you assume that other civilizations are
going to undergo the same path as as
yours or ours did the reformation with
the capital r the Renaissance with the
capital r were European phenomenon that
catered to European problems that took
place in a very particular social
economic theological
milu there were lots of tensions between
the Catholic church and between states
there was a lot of repression a lot of
Bloodshed science itself was being
impeded as we all
know in order to solve those issues
Europeans needed to invent these
understandings the Renaissance and
Reformation were needed we would not be
here today as a western Society were it
not for the Renaissance and the
Reformation but let me ask you what if
the problems of medieval and even modern
Islam have nothing to do with the
problems that Martin Luther faced you
know in 1500 uh England and Germany and
and and and Bavaria and where else what
if the problems of modern Islam are are
totally unique and separate which they
are of course they have problems every
society has its problems well then why
do we need to undertake the same
solution that worked 500 years ago for a
different place a different people a
different time I'm not trying to be
idealistic but Islam never had a problem
with modernity and Science and I
challenge anybody to actually look this
up Islam never had a problem with
embracing new ideas and and encouraging
scientific thought frankly Muslims led
the world for 3 400 years when ites to
to science we never had a problem of
separation of church and state right our
our issues were not separation of church
and state we didn't have that type of
tension so why then should the solution
be a European one so if you mean a
Reformation with a capital r no I don't
think Islam needs a Reformation but if
you mean a Reformation as an adjective
with a small R does Islam need some
fine-tuning some updating and
modernizing then yes definitely it does
it does why because every system of laws
without exception even if there Divine
need to just be adapted and fine-tune to
society simple example look at the
Constitution look at the Constitution
the Constitution none of us here says
it's divine I hope at least we all
believe it's a man-made document it's a
very Noble good Doc it's not Divine I
hope nobody says God revealed it no it's
a number of very intellectual deep
philosophers came together and basically
wrote the Constitution how has it been
interpreted for the last 350 years 300
years very differently right when it was
written and it said all men are created
equal well quite obviously their
interpretation of that phrase and I
don't need to get into examples was very
different than how we are interpreting
it now correct so things evolve
understandings evolve the Constitution
Remains the Same but we're now thinking
a lot about how to interpret it in light
of modernity okay and that's fine so
Islam has its own holy scriptures and we
believe they are Divine that is a big
difference obviously and therefore
certain things are non-negotiables we
will have to believe that but other
things are negotiable what is negotiable
and what is not negotiable this is the
domain of Islamic clerics of internal
theologians of jurists let them
organically decide what needs to be
reformed and how it's going to be
reformed slowly but surely change will
come but let me tell you change cannot
be superimposed from a dominant Force by
bombing people to believe in an ideology
doesn't work that way change has to come
organically from within according to the
rules set by the people who follow them
not from without so Islam ideally
speaking will never be Western
liberalistic humanism because they're
two different Traditions but can Islam
peacefully coexist with let Western
liberalism I believe yes it can of
course it can all all you need to do is
look at the sheer quantity of
conservative practicing believing
religious Muslims in Europe in Canada in
Australia in America total number of
Muslims in these Western secular liberal
democracies is around 40 million 40
million actually more than that 50
million around 50 million if you do
France as well which is 20 million 50
million Muslims by and large are living
in and under liberal
democracies it is possible yes certain
compromises are going to have to be made
yes we're going to have to agree to
disagree but hey doesn't America itself
non-muslim population agree to disagree
what percentage of America has other
views about whatever whether it's
abortion whether it's civil rights
issues whether it's uh um uh not civil
excuse me same sex not civil rights
sorry uh same sex issues we have a
controversy right we have dialogue going
on don't we so if somebody has an
alternative viewpoint
does that make them unamerican does that
make them a fifth column you have to
learn to tolerate and if you agree with
the majority that's great if not you're
going to have to live your lifestyle so
that you can still live with the broader
community so American Muslims are no
different we might have our own view
points about certain ethics certain
morality but does that mean we cannot be
productive useful citizens of a global
world no it doesn't and all you need to
do look around you the sheer quantity of
successful Muslim memphians in this
audience right here we have have every
second Muslim here is a doctor isn't
they AR they right 10% of doctors in
this country you know are are Muslim
background that's a huge percentage not
that not being a doctor is not
successful I'm not a doctor by the way
all right when my mother you know how
mothers are when my brother she
introduces me and somebody says Dr y she
goes oh he's not that type of doctor
he's the academic doctor so she kind of
like you know he's not the real Doctor
he's like the the PHD doctor so yeah my
point is you can be successful ful and
be an American and be a Muslim does that
mean you're going to follow the
normative interpretation maybe Muslims
are not going to go you know drink and
and and and and you know do things that
are un Islamic that doesn't make them
any less a part of society so Islamic
Reformation can occur should occur but
at our Pace according to our philosophy
from within and not superimposed from
without uh thank you all very much for
attending and I will call the
moderator to come
[Applause]
and