[Music]
the dean show peace be with you welcome
to the dean show I'm at your host this
week on The Dean show we're going to be
talking about the chattanoga shootings
and the charl Charleston shootings we're
going to be talking about all of this
and much much more with a professor from
the Arizona University who is a
sociologist expert political science
expert we got an expert on The Dean show
to set shed some light on many of the
sad situations that are happening on the
ground here and all over America with my
next guest don't go anywhere we have a
lot to talk about a great and exciting
Program full of great information you
don't want to miss out we'll be right
back peace Salam
alum
the
the this is
the this is the is
the
the this is
the is the
the welcome back to the de and our
special guest Professor from the Arizona
University Professor Musa how are
you I'm doing well thank you for having
me thank you very much for being on the
dean show can you tell our viewing
audience because it's your first time on
the program a little bit about yourself
Professor uh absolutely so um I'm a uh
I'm the managing editor for the
Southwest Initiative for the study of
Middle East conflicts also known as
sisme based out of the University of
Arizona and um I'm a cognitive
sociologist by by trade um but I focus a
lot on the Middle East and terrorism as
well as sort of related to that so this
is really your experti sociology people
and politics political sciences you're
the right person for the job an expert
in this area you had really sad
situations occurring you had the
Charleston shooting recently it's
already kind of fading in the news and
now recently the chattanoga shootings
that have happened and one is considered
kind of like a lone wolf but on the
other Spectrum you have a whole religion
being blamed for this situation what
what are your thoughts on that yeah so
there's um there's sort of two Trends to
take note of so the first one is that um
in the case of Dylan rof uh in
Charleston um as you pointed out when he
committed his crime they immediately
tried to portray him as a lone wolf and
often they also um try to portray white
terrorists as mentally ill um and uh in
the case of
Chattanooga uh so in the case of rof the
FBI has said they can't they won't even
consider that
terrorism um that's what the FBI had
said is that they're not considering
that terrorism even though it was
clearly a politically motivated attack
um you know with uh it meets the FBI's
definition of terrorism for btim but
they're not going to call it terrorism
in the case of Chattanooga the FBI said
um that they're going to considerate
terrorism until it's proven other that
it's not so the starting premise when an
Arab or a Muslim commits a crime is that
it's terrorism and uh the starting
premise when a white person commits a
crime is that it's not terrorism so
that's important and then the the the
issue of mental illness there's also a
big difference so again white terrorists
like Joseph Andrew stack or Dylan rof or
any of these guys are immediately
considered to be crazy they talk about
oh they're depressed or they're bipolar
they went through a divorce you know
whatever um in the case of the
Chattanooga shooter he's diagnosed as
being bipolar um in the case of Nadal
Malik Hassan the Fort Hood Shooter he uh
he had uh sought treatment for his own
mental issues because they were going to
send him to Afghanistan he was was a
conscientious objector he tried very
hard through the process to to get out
of being sent to Afghanistan he talked
to people about his um about his sort of
struggles with this um and with the fact
that he was being sort of discriminated
against in the army people were using
racial slurs and stuff against him and
he talked to counselors and he sought
treatment and he tried to go through the
legal process to get out of his
predicament but there was no exit for
him and he snapped and he went on a
shooting rampage but um but his mental
illness was never considered it was not
even up for for discussion so when so in
virtue of being a Muslim basically you
can't be mentally ill you're a cold
calculating um criminal mastermind
whereas if you're a white person who
commits a terrorist act you're
definitely crazy so that's you know
those are some of the opening uh
disparities
there you had someone who was kind of
Forgotten he's back up in the news but
not too long ago James Holmes he was The
Dark Knight movie Massacre he killed 14
people and he was actually a Christian
not to disparage on any Christians but
he was someone who was part of the
Presbyterian church and again they
looked at his mental illness he wasn't
someone now imagine if he was a Muslim
and then you have the Robert
duer who was who was a Christian and he
was putting together to a plan to
Massacre uh entire community
and just didn't get no wall to--all
media coverage yeah I'm glad you brought
up Robert Dugger yeah cuz he was a so he
was a Christian minister and a failed
Congressional candidate his plan was to
quote utterly destroy a predominantly
Muslim suburb in Upstate New York and um
the the the campaign was going to
include bombing a school and a mosque
and then going on a shooting rampage to
kill as many people as they could and it
wasn't just him he got other people that
um agreed to join this plot or this
Crusade and the astonishing thing is so
he was caught in the middle of this of
carrying out this plot he had acquired
weapons to do it um he had made as I
said contacts with co-conspirators they
were it was an imminent Terror plot that
was
spoiled so when a Muslim commits is
intercepted in the middle of an imminent
terrorist plot they're usually sentenced
to life in prison Mr duer was um he was
sentenced to home detention uh he lost
his gun permit and he was F
$30,000 that's it that's it uh and his
co-conspirators to my knowledge weren't
charged for anything at all um and then
more recently there's been a lot of
protests from um Muslim groups and civil
rights groups and so now he's facing
some additional civil rights charges but
um in terms of his of his sort of
criminal
liability uh he got you know a very
short home detention thing and a fine
whereas a Muslim who was intercepted
committing anything near that same scale
would have been sentenced to life in
prison generally and uh the worst part
is when Muslim a lot of times Muslims
who are intercepted in these plots the
FBI um you know the FBI is
um has people in a lot of Muslim
communities to kind of keep an eye on
Muslims to make sure they're not getting
radicalized and if they think that
someone might be prone to radicalization
a lot of times they basically entrapped
them they uh in some of these cases
where people have been foiled and
accused of trying to carry out a plot it
was the FBI who helped suggest the plot
it was the FBI who helped you know
provide them with fake weapons and fake
you know passports and stuff just to get
them to say that they'll do this thing
and then they get arrested but no one
was ever in any imminent danger
um it's just that in virtue of seeming
sympathetic or willing to carry out an
attack like this you get life in prison
if you're a Muslim but if you're someone
like Mr Dugger who's gonna who actually
came up on his own initiative and formed
a whole coalition to carry out a
massacre you know you get you get a fine
you get house arrest uh that's a big
problem why is it that most Americans
they've never heard of Robert Dugger
he's not a household name he's not
getting the kind of press the wall
to--all media
coverage that many of these other people
is as soon as you're connected with
anything of Islam you're all over the
Press but in this case no there's huge
disparities in media coverage as well um
so consider for instance
uh a good a good sort of side by-side
comparison would be to consider Joseph
Andrew St the third he was this um white
guy who was anti-government anti- the
IRS he did a suicide bombing on on the
IRS Echelon comp complex in Austin Texas
he killed a federal agent caused
millions of dollars in damage and he he
was hoping to kill hundreds because
there's hundreds of people that work
there they were just arriving for the
day but for the grace of God he would
have killed hundreds especially if there
was bigger structural damage to the
building which he intended on his
Manifesto
um so he he commits the suicide bombing
that kills a federal agent right now
compare that to um Abdul Faruk Abdul
mutalib this uh Somali kid who tried to
um commit a suicide bombing via he was
he was called the the Christmas Day
bomber but he had an an underwear bomb
that failed so he didn't kill anyone he
didn't hurt anyone he didn't even really
damage the plane except for mild
cosmetic damage the only person who was
hurt was him but as a result of Abdul
mutalib they had they put in body
scanners and all of the and a lot of
these airports you know um it was wall
to--all coverage about it for you know
weeks and weeks and weeks Joseph Andrew
stack killed someone caused millions of
dollars in damage nearly killed hundreds
and um the FBI just said well he's just
a crazy guy Lone Wolf even though he
clearly belongs to a um an ideology
that's fairly widespread
and uh you know the media was basically
over it the next day as soon as the FBI
said it's not terrorism it's just a lone
wolf that was it there was no
commemoration for the federal agent who
died there was no you know no big policy
changes to prevent something like this
from happening again in fact because the
government refused to do any kind of
policy change to prevent ideologues like
Mr stack from carrying out more attacks
the IRS decided that they were going to
invest investigate these kinds of
right-wing ideologues
um in the hopes of breaking up some of
these groups so they don't get attacked
because they're the target of a lot of
rightwing attacks and as a result of
that of their probe into right-wing
groups when that became public
Republican lawmakers started a Witch
Hunt against the IRS and so the FBI is
investigating the IRS now for for having
investigated right-wing groups rather
than investigating the terrorists who
committed the crime
and people who are sympathetic to that
terrorist they're investigating the IRS
for investigating the crime I mean it's
it's insane it's um it's really terrible
insane indeed what it is insane and we
have a lot more questions to ask
Professor Musa here in the dean show
Moses by the way Professor Moses with us
don't go anywhere we be right back
please subscribe to the dean show follow
us on our official Facebook and Twitter
pages in The Links below please also
help support the dean show by making a
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[Music]
below back here on the dean show and
hope you're benefiting I truly am some
amazing facts brought to your attention
that are out there if you want them
indeed it's insane the contradictions
the
hypocrisy and wal to wall media coverage
for a Muslim uh he's a lone wolf but
they make him out to be like a
representative of Islam which we know
Islam is free and clear of a lot of
these extremists and you have also
written an article exposing many of the
other people who are doing heinous
crimes getting no wall-to-wall media
coverage 60,000 plus people have been
killed majority of innocent people many
also American 5 6,000 plus decapitation
training of young kids to commit their
heinous terroristic crimes in this
article talking about the Cel can you
discuss this with our audience thank you
yeah absolutely so what's astonishing is
that any literally anything that people
are upset about that Isis does the
Mexican drug cartels do as well and on a
bigger scale so if you're upset about
enslaving women the Mexican drug cartels
enslave far more women than Isis if
you're upset about beheading the Mexican
drug cartels behead far more people than
Isis if you're um upset about uh you
know just the sheer number of death and
destruction the cartels kill more people
than Isis and they kill them in horrific
ways um often you know mutilating their
bodies and I mean people were were
concerned about Isis having burned a guy
to death the cartels do that they
they've burned people to death but
they've also cut off someone's face and
SED it to a soccer ball they actually
cooked an American killed and cooked an
American and ate
him and um that was not a news item they
cooked an American they ate this
American this group they ate him yes wow
I mean so there was there was widespread
news news coverage actually
um about a year ago when one of the uh n
people well well one of the uh sort of
fighters in Syria ate someone's heart
and that was a huge deal right they were
talking about it all the time oh these
like Jihadi cannibals out there in Syria
but there was nothing what but that that
wasn't even an American but somehow the
American news media doesn't care when an
American gets killed cooked and eaten um
and and in fact even in terms of
American
deaths right um more than 300 Americans
were killed in just a few years on the
Mexican side of the border and on the US
side of the border the drug cartels
control the overwhelming majority of the
drug trade in the United States and if
you look at drug fuel violence and other
cartel fuel violence in the United
States the cartels have killed more
Americans in just a handful of years
than the entire campaigns in Iraq
Afghanistan and all domestic terrorism
since 911
combined and yet no one wants to talk
about the Mexican cartels and we're all
talking about you know Islamic
terrorists in the Middle East who you
can't really um effectively carry out
too many strikes here I mean uh it's
it's a threat that can be largely
contained really amazing points amazing
facts bringing them to light so people
can really think and Ponder and reflect
about the sad reality
now another reality is
that people have more of a chance
of being killed is that true by
lightning maybe secondhand smoke or get
this your furniture than some kind of
supposed Muslim terrorists here in
America can you comment on this yeah and
not not just Muslim terrorists but if
you look at all terrorism since 911 um
you you're talking about you know even
considering when you add the new cases
in um since 911 then you're talking
about around 80 people that have been
killed since 9911 by all terrorism
regardless of it's if it's Muslim white
people whatever um so that that's a very
small number of people in more than in
roughly a decade and a half you know U
we
had tens of thousands of Americans that
kill themselves that commit suicide in
this country every year um we have
hundreds of thousands of people that die
in accidents every year we have million
literally more than a million people who
die as a result of medical malpractice
and preventable diseases um
Etc every single year in America um so I
mean if people were concerned about
protecting
Americans uh lives and their well-being
then you know investing in things like
Health Care infrastructure psychological
care these things are would should
clearly be a bigger priority than
terrorism in fact even the
police just this year just in the first
half of this year have killed more than
600 people so um the police killed six
times as many people just in the first
half of this year as terrorists have
killed since 911 in a decade and a half
um terrorism is not a major problem and
Muslim terrorism is not even a majority
of the very small problem that terrorism
is to begin with Professor Musa tell us
you also wrote another article
discussing about the greater threat hey
I'm a racist I certainly am the rising
threat of right-wing extremism so the
combined total of far-right extremists
active here in America is in the
hundreds of thousands now compare that
to Isis supporters uh you know we'd have
probably just a few thousand of those
what's the answer well the answer uh we
are Des l in need of more resources here
in America to combat this problem uh I
can personally say that we have hundreds
of analysts in the US government looking
at Alca and Isis and their Affiliates
but we have mere dozens of analysts
looking at non-islamic extremists here
in America that's coming from the
domestic terrorist here who have nothing
to do with Islam or being a
Muslim so again it's important to
underscore that the the the supposed
threat of terrorism is overstated and
that by making terrorism such a big deal
that's actually what gives terrorists
power and that's actually what
encourages people to carry out terrorist
attacks um so in in in a large part
we're sort of playing into the hands of
we're creating an atmosphere where
terrorism becomes more appealing by the
way we react to terrorism but again um
with regards to how how terrorism shakes
out it's almost always native born um
white men so right now now it's the
right wing that's that's carrying out
most of the attacks but previously like
during the Cold War it was mostly
leftist but but still it was native born
you know white men but right currently
post 9911 the terror threat has been
overwhelmingly from the right the
leftwing terrorism is pretty much
stopped in America right now so it's
it's mostly right-wing terrorism we're
gonna go ahead and take a break right
back with more with Professor Musa don't
go anywhere please subscribe to the dean
show follow us on our official Facebook
and Twitter pages in The Links below
please also help support the dean show
by making a donation in the link
[Music]
below back here on the dean show with
Professor Moses Musa and you've covered
the 60,000 plus people a lot of it
decapitations people being eaten aive
live right next to our borders no wall
to--all
coverage you also we discussed the
Robert Dugger plan to Massacre a whole
entire Community gets off basically with
a slap on the wrist no wall to--all
coverage and then you have the domestic
threat here of terrorism nothing to do
with Muslims or Islam you have more of a
chance of being killed by your furniture
than you do some kind of Muslim
extremist but again Muslim blows a
firecracker and it's wall-to-wall
coverage and this fear and hysteria
Boogeyman type of movie drama is coming
to get you from Islam people are all
scared because Isis 247 it's going to
come knocking on your door is this some
kind of hidden agenda here it's kind of
obvious this this hypocrisy what do you
think yeah
um so so you raised a good Point here um
that I want to sort of tease out a
little bit and then I'll I'll I'll get
to the to the main question but you
mentioned how like um right-wing people
when they commit Terror attacks no one
no one asks the right to condemn Terror
to condemn the attacks to dissociate
from these people in fact we we never
even discuss the fact that a lot of
these crimes are committed by people
impelled by the same kind of ideology
there's a there's a world view that
impels this terrorism and the same is
true with cartels actually so usually um
when people try to explain the
difference of how they treat Muslims
versus everyone else they say well the
difference is that is Islam and Muslims
are are sort of unified by a certain
ideology to carry out these
attacks um and that's problematic I mean
it's problematic because uh a lot of the
ideological views that they ascribe to
Isis obviously um
most Muslims don't subscribe to them but
even a lot of Isis people don't
subscribe to them they join Isis for a
number of reasons um and and probably a
lot of them prob actually most of them
that are from Iraq and Syria aren't
joining because they agree to the cause
but because there's economic pressures
and social pressures for instance in
Rebel held Syria Isis is pretty much the
only game in town if you want to be able
to feed your family or you know stay
safe or or whatever so a lot of people
are sort of affiliated with is for those
kinds of reasons not because they're
sort of Hardcore jihadis um but we never
talk about the ideological underpinnings
of the drug cartels we never talk about
the ideological underpinnings of these
rightwing terrorists even though that is
largely what motivates the violence in
these cases and it's important to
confront those ideologies and it's
really disturbing
because a lot of right-wing people
actually sympathize when so so when
someone like Dylan rof commits this
church
shooting um in the name of the
Confederacy a lot of people sympathize
with this whole idea that America is
being taken away by minorities and we
need to assert our white rights and um
we're in the middle of some kind of
culture War you know so many Americans
actually sympathize with this and not
just in America but you know around the
world perhaps millions of people in
Europe and in in the west um and in fact
the right-wing ideologues are the prim
terrorist in Europe as well uh it's the
same ideology and it's never confronted
and until you confront it um you know
it's going to keep it's what enables it
to continue and the irony is that the
very people who are committing who are
who are responsible for most Terror acts
in the US and Europe these right-wing
ideologues are the people who are
championing the
anti-muslim
fervor in um in these same countries
and uh you know that's largely a
deflection uh but uh from their own sort
of crazy but you know then there are
other incentives too so if you're a
media company and you're trying to
decide how to cover
terrorism Muslims are a pretty small you
know minority in America and in Europe
so if you alienate them it's not a big
deal per se whereas if you're alienating
people who sympathize with right-wing
ideology that's potentially a lot of
viewers that's a lot of you know
advertising Revenue that you potentially
lose by and then you know on top of that
you have to face possibly
massive you know um social media and
other retaliations even lawsuits um so
you know when when you provoke the right
you know they they hit you back and I
and I've experienced this myself
actually actually um I've I've been
the uh the face of a number of smear
campaigns by Fox News and Breitbart and
other right-wing groups um accusing me
of being a terrorist sympathizer simply
because I call out these kinds of you
know uh
disparities uh so it's it's tough it's
tough to actually confront this because
in order to really confront this
ideology it can't just be Muslims and it
can't just be
minorities that are calling this out
other white people especially
Republicans need to be the ones
condemning this and challenging these
views and um that's not happening
they're protecting these extremists
another interesting point is that the
supposed experts that come on to talk
about Islam and Muslims they have more
in common with this Fringe element Isis
that obviously doesn't represent Islam
that the majority of the Muslim scholars
in the Muslim world and more Muslims are
actually
dying and being killed by this Fringe
element but the people who have more in
common with Isis and the extreme element
are the people who are the so-called
expert non-muslim experts who interpret
Islam in such a crazy and extreme way
and and leave off the real scholarship
and the real PE uh people people who are
out there advocating for peace and
understanding and so they shun them off
you don't get to hear them in the main
media press but they go ahead and find
the worst of the worst to put him up
high and give him the microphone do you
see this
contradiction um the right-wing
extremists and the sort of Isis
extremist actually reinforce one another
and at times you can literally see them
doing this so for instance um um after
the when Pamela G had that drw Muhammad
contest and then these two people tried
to um commit a you know commit a a
shooting or a massacre there they failed
they didn't kill or injure anyone they
they died in in the process but again
this is another case where the media
though made a huge deal about it and um
if you tuned into Fox News in the
aftermath of that they had Pamela Geller
on defending her acts and the person
that she was talking to on the other
side Fox presented as a Muslim cleric
but it was actually Anam Kari who is
isis's number one propagandist in the UK
and he's very upfront about this this is
what he is he's an Isis propagandist and
they had him debating Pamela Geller on
Fox but they didn't disclose the fact
that Anam Kari is as an Isis
propagandist they just presented him as
a Muslim cleric so people who watch
Fox heard Kari talking about how Pamela
Geller should be stoned and stuff like
this and they thought oh this is what
Muslims think this is how Muslims feel
because they go out of their way to find
the most extreme people um to to sort of
put side by side with someone like
Geller to for the sake of
misrepresenting because they want you
know it's these two extremes just
feeding on one another and perpetuating
the conflict it really seems like the
KKK who was at one point 5 million plus
members strong in America they didn't go
away it just didn't seem like the cool
thing to wear the you know the white
thobes that they were wearing but now
that mentality that race is bigoted I'm
white I'm right and everything else we
need to get out of sight that mentality
now they just maybe it's still there but
they put on the nice suits and they got
the air it's really sad to see really
sad what so what what advice do you have
for the sincere Americans who out there
who aren't bigoted who aren't racist who
want to live in peace with their with
their neighbors and that's what Muslims
want to do we want to live in peace have
peace with our creator peace within
ourselves and peace with Humanity but
now for them to see through all of this
confusion what advice do you have for
them so the the one of the most
important things you can do is just
listen to actual Muslims you know you
you can't there's all of these experts
post 911 that are um that are not
Muslims talking about what Muslims think
and how Muslims feel and a lot of them
are full of crap you know um and and
some of them are motivated by various
you know financial and other things to
intentionally misrepresent things in a
certain way um you know it's disturbing
for instance if you watch CNN and
they're talking about terrorism and it's
a whole panel of 50-year-old white men
you know talking about Islam and Islamic
ideology you should probably take that
with the grain of salt but that's the
norm so you know when you're confronted
with this sort of a view what you should
try to do is find an alternative
Viewpoint by listening to actual Muslims
and trying to get a diverse array of of
Muslims because you know Muslims are not
a monolith anymore than blacks or or
anyone else uh we have diverse
viewpoints we disagree about stuff and
you know people need to be aware of that
they need to dig in there and try to um
just get a more Nuance nuanced you know
uh grasp of how Muslims feel if they're
concerned about Islam or if they want to
know more about Islam Professor Moses Mo
tell us where people can go ahead and
read some of your articles that we've
discussed today with you and how they
can get a hold of you so uh my website
is uh Fiat sophia.org so f a t uh s o p
a.org or you know I run cis.org as well
and there's links to to my work and my
website there as well thank you
Professor we started with peace we am
with peace we look forward to having you
sometime in the future back on the show
God bless
you peace be with you and thank you the
sincere viewer the sincere person with
an open mind open heart who really wants
to know look he's coming to the Muslims
to find out what's Islam got to say
about this what do Muslims have to say
and now you've heard our voice now you
decide we got we had a lot of ground
that we covered in a short amount of
time we talked about the double standard
we had the sad tragic events that
happened at Charleston and
chattanoga and one was considered a lone
wolf but now other people are trying to
hang and go to war with
Islam because some person went and did a
lone wolf act and now you're trying to
blame a whole religion so are you part
of the problem or you want to be part of
the solution and we talked about Robert
duer who's all of a sudden his name just
got swept under the rug you don't know
about him and this individual who is a
minister Christian minister now do we BL
blame Christianity and Christians for
this crazy diluted person's plot and
plan to Massacre a whole entire
community of Muslims and you know by now
by watching the dies so a Muslim is like
what Jesus was because Jesus was a
Muslim and Abraham was a Muslim and
Moses was a Muslim they all what
submitted to the will of God this is
what a Muslim is one who's figured out
the purpose of life and that purpose of
life is what to connect with the one who
made life who gave us
life and we love Jesus and his blessed
mother and you get to learn those things
in previous shows so now he wanted to
murder all these
people that love Jesus and he got a
smack on the wrist no wall-to-wall media
coverage Jame H Holland
who was also the movie Massacre he was
looked at as a lone wolf but he was also
a Christian you also have Andrew brevik
who killed over
77
people and why do I mention these people
because now many people are assuming
that Islam is the problem but no you
don't see
Muslims doing the majority of these
horrific acts you don't see that but
it's made to appear so to the average
Layman that yes Muslims and Islam is the
problem but I'm sorry it's not spend
some time with the Muslims learn Islam
from the scholars here in America who
are out there and their voices are not
being heard but they've got a strong
presence in the Muslim Community talk to
them invite them to be on Fox News
invite them to be on CNN if you really
want to be a part of the solution and
not the
problem and that's what it seems like
many people are a part of they're just
anger and bitter because when we look at
the root cause of all this it's that
racism and hatred that was with the KKK
but now it's still in the hearts of the
people it hasn't been eradicated it just
put on a new
costume it just has a new appearance so
as the KKK we can spot them really loud
and clear many of these people now we
can spot them by the false fear rhic the
bigotry that comes out of their mouths
so let's not
listen to people such as this who are
trying
to disunite humanity let's really
support and look towards
creating an environment of peace and
understanding and if you have any
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