set down why you think down sit down
quick why you
think
hereo down quick
Joe well we're having a scene as you can
see and it's hard to tell whether it's
clowning or for real between the two
fighters this kind of thing has been
going on all along in terms of promotion
of the fight and this time it seems to
be for real because Joe Frasier is
really angry
I think that Ali is probably
clowning do you have a bodygard do you
have no you don't I got one body guard
when he wishes to create a thing he just
orders it to be and comes into existence
for this order is not conveyed in Words
which takes a tongue toally of his sound
carries ears he hears the secrets of
those on the quiet thought
he stops those who who's that that's God
Allah he's my body God he's your body
[Music]
God for
the people are you ready for the
[Music]
greetings and peace how are you guys
doing welcome to the dean show I got a
special guest here with me Jonathan a
he's the critically acclaimed best
selling author we're going to get into a
story and then from the story let's see
I mean the picture might give it away
but uh Jonathan how are you I'm good how
are you thank you for being with us on
the dean show thank you don't go to the
shot with the picture yet we're going to
start off with a story from your book
yeah okay and then we're going to get
into more from there it starts off I'll
start it off it was an elderly man with
his grandson right that's right that's
right and he was looking for a famous
individual he ends up at his finally
finding him uh and what happens then
tell us tell us about the story you take
off with it this elderly man he's from
Tanzania with his grandson travels to
the United States they go to Chicago
first knocking on doors looking for
Muhammad Ali Muhammad Ali
they can't find him in Chicago they hear
that he's moved to Los Angeles they take
a plane to Los Angeles and they go
riding around at a taxi looking for a
house that looks like Ali's house they
they they have a picture of Ali's house
from the newspaper and they find the
house they they go up the knock on the
door and they're carrying a a Big Mac in
a bag because you know they want to make
an offering a humble gesture
of to to to Muhammad Ali you know you
don't arrive
empty-handed so this this elderly man
and his grandson knock on the door and
um Ali answers and and the old man says
we've come all the way from Africa we
were looking for Muhammad Ali I wanted
my son my grandson to meet the great
Muhammad Ali before he died um I want
him to be able to say that he met
Muhammad Ali and Ali is this is the mid
1990s now he's you know he's been out of
the spotlight for a while he's he's
older he's he's um has trouble walking
he he speaks very softly he murmurs and
and you know very softly hard to
understand um was this around the 80s
now this mid99s mid mid before he liks
the Olympic torch so he's really in a
period of where he's not getting a lot
of attention he's a little to depressed
to be honest yeah um but he welcomes
this old man and his grandson into the
house he makes them sandwiches he eats
the Big Mac um and he actually he ate
the Big Mac like one bite and um his
manager Larry colb was there with him
and Larry is the one who told me this
story and hours go by and Al's
entertaining them with stories he's
telling he's doing magic tricks for them
and then after a while um realizes it's
been most of the afternoon to get in the
car Ali offers to drive them back to the
motel that they're staying at by the by
the airport so they pile into Ali's um
Rolls-Royce and they drive this older
man and his grandson to the to the hotel
and they um they say goodbye they give
hugs and and handshakes and when they're
leaving they're driving back to Ali's
house Larry Co the manager turns to Ali
and says why why why do you spend the
whole day with those people you know you
could have just signed an autograph and
and they would have been perfectly happy
and Ali said something that was really
remarkable he said um I believe that
there's a tallying angel that there's an
angel who's counting all of your good
deeds and all of your bad deeds and I've
done a lot of bad things in my life I've
been not always a good husband not
always a good father I've made a lot of
mistakes and this is my time to to make
up for those mistakes and to do more
Good Deeds so that I go to paradise
because he had a very Vivid impression
of what hell was like and what Paradise
was like and he he really felt um that
he had work to do in order to ensure his
place in paradise and and that's why he
he spent all that time with that with
that older man and with his grandson and
very touching story he actually did he
had a vivid image in your book you talk
about he talks about the Hellfire like
the sizzling you he and then was like
putting your hand on a frying pan for
eternity for millions of years yeah and
but just to take a timeout like that and
he puts them in his Rolls-Royce and he
takes them to he spends like he said the
day with them that's something just
unheard of you know you think about
celebrities and people you know time is
money right I don't they don't have time
for anyone just really many not all but
many people are egotistic narcissistic
they don't want to you know connect with
with the outside world but he connected
I mean you show that he he couldn't say
no to anybody loved it he fed off of it
you know a lot of people would say to
him you know he's a big famous guy comes
to your office for a business meeting or
something they'd say Muhammad we have a
car waiting for you in the back alley so
that you can get out of here quickly and
he'd say no no no pull it around to the
front I want the people to see me and
he'd spend an hour even if he would late
be late for his next appointment he'd
spend an hour on the street just playing
around with people he just he couldn't
get enough he loved people what now
let's talk about you now for a minute
what what motivated you to write this
book this uh biography so many have been
written so many documentaries and now uh
the timing now what motivated you to to
put this together you know I was a kid
in the 70s I can remember rooting for
ali um against George Foreman and Joe
Frasier and to me he was the greatest
hero because he was so different he was
outspoken he had political stands he
wasn't just about the sport he was about
something bigger and as a kid I didn't
fully appreciate that but I just knew
there was something magical about this
guy and the fact that he was black the
fact that he was a Muslim and as a kid
to me just kind of strange stuff that I
didn't fully understand but when when
when it occurred to me that nobody had
yet written a full biography of Ali
there as you said there have been
documentaries there have been a lot of
books written about different aspects of
his life but nobody had done the full
biography and it's now 50 years since he
took his stand against the Vietnam War
it's 50 years 53 years since he changed
his name from Cash's clay to Muhammad
Ali and embraced Islam I thought it was
time and enough time had gone by that
you could really put some of those
events in historical perspective and
there were still enough people around to
talk to who were alive back then who
knew him including his wives Ali was
alive at the time I began this work so
it's just seemed like the right time to
do a big look at his life were you there
at his uh janaza his funeral pray you
were that was uh um in his hometown yeah
I was in Louisville um June of last year
I was there was your book already uh it
was still you were still writing it in
in the ending phases or I was getting
close to to done um at that point but I
still had some work to do so um but I
had already spoken to most of the key
people in his life um and um saw them
all down there at the at the janaza
service now who were the key players in
his life that were still who are still
around today that some of them that you
actually got to spend some time with
well three of his four wives are still
living and three of them there was the
first one was first one was
um um Sanji was his first wife and she
passed away in the ' 80s um Belinda who
later changed her name to khila she was
the one um Let me refresh that Herbert
Muhammad introduced introduced she was
raised in the Nation of Islam yes and um
her parents were some of the very first
members of the Nation of Islam so she
was it was almost like an arranged
marriage the nation but she wasn't she
wasn't practicing or she didn't is that
son the first one she Sanji didn't
practice then Belinda came Belinda came
she's still around she's still around so
you got to spend some time with her a
lot of time with her um as well as his
uh third wife Veronica and his current
wife or his most recent wife um at the
time of his death he was still married
to Lonnie yeah so I spent time with all
of them and they're they're all
remarkable women and they obviously knew
him better than anybody yeah and then uh
you have um how about some of these
other key players like uh Herbert
Muhammad I wasn't too fond of him no
Herbert passed away his son he was
taking his cut was 30 40% yeah he took a
lot of money from Ali but Ali still
loved him you know Ali didn't care about
money he yeah that was amazing Just Let
It Go um you know and he knew Herbert
was taking 30 40% of everything and off
the top before taxes before expenses um
but Ali just didn't care all his life he
didn't really care about money he just
you know he said if people want to take
it from me they must need it it really
um some would say naive other people
would say amazing attitude what fight
was that where you had Don King I'm not
too fond of him may God help us all you
know is he is he still around yeah to
spend time with him so I don't know you
know there's hope for everybody you know
until the end uh but he went there was a
situation I don't know it was a fight
that Ali was supposed to get you talk
about this in your book he was supposed
to get uh six s million correct me if
I'm wrong and then he only gave him so
much and there was like a million two
left something like that so he goes and
sends the guy with the notary gives him
50,000 right and Ali just take you know
Ali signed a contract giving Don King a
million dollars in exchange for $50,000
in cash and million so he owes them
million he's taking the cash 50,000 and
saying I'll give you a check for a
million so he's basically trading 50,000
for a million and and he knew it was
stupid but he just couldn't say no and
Don King just you know laughed all
laughed all the way to the bank so you
got to collect a lot of date a lot of
information how did that feel I mean
going back you know to spend time I
would love to spend time you know you
you some people who knew him the best
who's who who who were there with him
through they were there from the
beginning right they brother who you
know was only two years younger um his
brother's still around and I spent a lot
of time with rakaman and you know
rakaman could tell you you know what
they had in the backyard what kind of
toys they had where the Goldfish Pond
was all this stuff you know he took me
into their bedroom where they where they
were raised and told me you know where
the beds were positioned and uh you know
all these great details that you can't
really get if you wait another you know
10 10 or 20 years to write this book so
it was a it was a real thrill for me to
be able to walk in all these footsteps a
little bit and to see
um how he lived and to know the people
who knew him the best tell us a little
about yourself how long have you been
what uh how long have you had this
passion for writing when did you start
and and um talk to us a little about
sure I've always liked writing um even
from from you know grade school days and
I worked at my you know School newspaper
and then worked at my hometown newspaper
and then went to college and studied
journalism and worked at newspapers and
all over the country and and ended up at
the Wall Street Journal um that was my
my most recent job and then started
writing book W stre journal for six
years and um left there just to begin
writing books and I've been writing
books for the last 15 years you did
something also on uh Al Capone yeah I
wrote a book about Al Capone how long
yeah how long ago was that that was uh
2010 I guess um yeah it was really about
the case against Capone how the
government went about trying to get him
and in many cases had to you know
concoct evidence
and do all kinds of sneak things to put
him away he how did he um just to um uh
ask you about that interesting um he
actually died Al Capone uh of an a of an
illness right syphilis syphilis right
yeah yeah he um probably had it most of
his adult life and and could have been
treated for it early on but wasn't and
as a result by the time he went to
prison it began to affect his brain and
he began to go mad from uh from the from
the the Cil eating away yeah uh in you
you uh you go over some um what some new
statistics regarding um Ali Muhammad
Ali's um condition and you you cite
something like
200,000 plus um hits that he took that's
my best estimate yeah what I did was I
worked with a company that that does
boxing statistics and we actually
counted every punch that hit Ali over
the course of his career we we watched
every round of every fight and we
charted the punches not just um how many
but what kind of punch they were so hold
on hold on so you actually said not me
they did these these guys from Compu box
yeah every punch every punch every punch
he he threw and every punch that was
thrown at him yeah and we were able to
see how much damage he was taking how
much damage he was giving over the
course of his career and you could see
that as he gets older which you know to
be expected he begins slowing down and
taking a lot more punches and in the
second half of his career he's taking
more punches than he's giving um so what
I did was I took those numbers and I
extrapolated them over the course of his
amateur career um you know if he if we
know that he took for example you know
13 punches per round on average over the
course of his career if you extrapolate
that for his amateur career for sparring
sessions for exhibitions my estimate is
that he took about 200,000 punches over
the course of his career and it was it
was said that early in the early 70s is
when his family was starting to get
concerned about some of the the brain
damage that was happening is that
correct that's right they began to
notice um that he was slurring his
speech that he was mumbling even if you
go back and you watch him on TV now go
on YouTube and just watch his interviews
over the years you can see it that over
the night course of the 70s he his voice
gets softer um harder to understand and
his the words come more slowly and this
was a guy who was a brilliant brilliant
linguist I mean he was a fabulous
speaker he was funny and he was quick
but you can it's sad you can watch his
his um his speech deteriorating and
that's a sign of neur neurological
damage but he kept on for another
another 10 years yeah he kept fighting
and even you know when he began to
realize it there were all these
interviews where he would ask reporters
do you think I'm I'm getting punch drunk
do you think I'm I'm getting brain
damaged because people say that I don't
sound right so he was aware of it but
the you know the money was so good he
was being pushed by all these people
around him to keep fighting because they
liked having the money too they like the
lifestyle it was it's hard to give up
well that shows I mean when we talk
about he his his genuine sincere love
for people like this Herbert uh uh and
and what role did um arum is still
around today right yeah Bob arum still
around did you spend time with him yeah
I interviewed Bob a couple of times yeah
uh and some of the other key players I
mean what I mean this is just my opinion
when you really care for someone right
when money is not a top priority you
want what's best for them right you
follow me but you're talking about they
like that Entourage they like the money
the f everything and they're getting a
part of that you really care for the man
and you're going to put him really first
and maybe this uh it wouldn't went to
the extent that it did what do you think
yeah it's it's it's tough to say because
obviously responsibility lies with Ali
yeah primarily but if some of the other
people in his Corner had said I won't go
I won't be a part of this anymore I quit
maybe it would have gotten his attention
I mean his mother and father were were
saying quit but they were still coming
to his fights and still cheering for him
and you know his his family maybe could
have done more too it's it's hard to say
but all these people are you know
they're they're riding that train
they're taking that money and nobody
wants to see it end because they're
never going to have easy money like that
again I was under I was getting the
impression that because uh he continued
to fight he wasn't um all there and he
wasn't able to make those those those uh
decisions as someone who wasn't brain
damaged the way he was would you say
right it's a bit of a catch22 right is
he is the brain damage making his his
judgment impaired so that he can't
decide whether quit or not um or is it
the other way around you know it's it's
really sad um it may be that he wasn't
really in good enough shape anymore to
make those decisions for himself and and
a wife or a father or a mother should
have come in and
said you know no more there was uh his
uh his trainer an was it Angelo Angelo
Dundee Angelo dunde he's he's passed
away he but there was one fight where he
F he threw in the towel he stopped the
fight that was against uh was it Holmes
against Larry Holmes unfortunately it
was you know much too late it was it was
late in his career he was already 40
years old um or 39 and it was also just
late in that fight he'd already taken a
massive beating massive he never should
have been in the ring that night at all
mhm we talked about him not being able
to say no right but there was one man
that you mentioned that he said no to
and um it was uh lisis farim he came to
visit him and he was trying to revive
this the nation right tell us about that
yeah farakhan told me this story that
really amazed me because you got to
spend time with him also did WOW with
everybody yeah they uh I'm very
persistent I I get people to talk to me
so um you know Ali became a Muslim
because of the Nation of Islam because
of Elijah Muhammad yeah and it wasn't
just the religion it was it was race it
was a big part of it he you know he he
liked what it had to say about being
black in America so when Elijah Muhammad
died um Elijah sons took the Nation of
Islam in a different direction
eventually broke it up and took their
followers into Orthodox Islam and Ali
went along and became a more traditional
Muslim um but Minister farakhan decided
he wanted to try to rebuild the Nation
of Islam and restore the teachings of
Elijah muhammmad so he went to Muhammad
Ali and said brother Muhammad you know
we did not become Muslims because of the
Quran we became Muslims because of the
teachings of Elijah Muhammad I want to
restore the teachings I want to rebuild
the Nation of Islam and you know will
you come with me and U the story that
farakhan told me is that they were in
Ali's Kitchen and there was a football
game on TV and and Ali said faran do you
see that TV you see that football game
how many people are in that
stadium and Ali said everybody in that
Stadium knows me but none of them know
you get out I'm not uh I'm not coming
with you I'm not I'm I'm not coming back
to the Nation of Islam and uh it was an
interesting story because it um you know
it doesn't
really I think it's just it was a very
honest moment how long because earlier
in his career he was afraid that they
would kill him if he left the nation
that's right he was yeah he was afraid
of of Elijah Muhammad Elijah Muhammad
you know um as long as he was alive was
um ran that organization with uh with a
lot of power and you know obviously
people felt like Malcolm X and other who
crossed Elijah Muhammad paid for it and
Ali mentioned a couple times that he was
afraid if he ever left that he might be
assassinated yeah now I've talked about
I mean uh you you you mention that
towards more towards the end of your
book you talk about his transition with
Wallace D Muhammad uh so that's a key
Point um that he I'm trying to figure
out uh because this was around what he
was uh probably in his late 30s now that
he finally accepted uh uh Islam
uh Real Islam what we call it m yeah
around what yeah it would have been the
late 70s late 70s early 80s do you think
he was he was considering um coming over
to Islam from the nation at that point
when he was scared that they would they
were going to kill him no I don't think
so I think it was it was Elijah
Muhammad's sons that that helped him
guided him toward Real Islam yeah yeah
so I've I've interviewed many um they
have cap APS and former ministers from
from from the the nation and we see a
lot of um the this transition towards
the end him and Malcolm also Malcolm
ended up uh uh leaving the nation and uh
because I make this differentiation many
people don't know that there's you know
as Orthodox Muslims we don't you know
consider this this is kind of um not
real Islam you know what I mean because
the teachings of Real Islam when for
instance like what they originally
believed in white man's the devil just
that that's nothing to do that's like
you know worshiping a a man you know
Real Islam calls upon only worshiping
the Creator so anyone who many of these
people who study the Real Islam they saw
that hold on this has nothing if you
just open up the Quran this has nothing
to do with the real teachings and they
end up making that transition but it's
interesting that I'm trying to figure
out at what point because he was scared
but Wallace D ended up uh bringing a lot
of people over and then uh what happens
from there farak visits him to try to re
revive it but then he said no right he
was loyal to Wallace D and and one of
the things that happened when Elijah
died is um um Herbert told Ali that my
father wanted you to listen to Wallace
and to do whatever Wallace says wait
Herbert Herbert is is is Wallace's
brother oh that's his brother now
they're both sons of Elijah who which
one is older um I think Herbert was the
older Herbert was the older okay I think
so um and it was Herbert who said my
father
wish wishes for you to follow his
successor to follow Wallace D and do
whatever he told is told whatever he
says and Ali did that and um Wallace
then began to transition toward Orthodox
Islam and Ali followed him yeah but I
don't think he would have done that
prior to um Elijah's death you talk
about him also with with um with his
friends and colleagues people who who
were Muslim that how he was he was um
inviting them to pray I pray every
morning at 5:00 my clock rings at 4:30
I'm up at 5: I take a shower and I uh
put my white robe on I put the towel on
the floor and I face the East towards
Mecca and we say surely I have turned
myself to thee Oh Allah trying to be
upright to him who has originated the
heavens and the Earth and I am not of
the polytheus surely my prayers my
sacrifices my life and my death are all
for Allah the Lord of all the worlds no
Associates has see this am I commanded I
am of those who submit oh Allah Thou Art
the king Thou Art my Lord and I am thine
servant I have been greatly unjust to
myself and I do confess my fault so
please grant me protection against all
my fault for none grants protection
against faults but thou and turn lead me
to the best of morals for none can turn
away from me the worst of morals but
thee and guide me to the best of of
morals for none can Guide to the best of
morals but thee you you discussed that
in your book can you can you talk about
that in his his real um uh devotion and
the Solace that he found in prayer
another bath another shower clean my
mouth pray and at 5 in the morning this
goes on and when I'm right now I didn't
do that for the first Fraser fight nor
the first Norton fight really no sir my
head got big and I start thinking it was
my training camp and my boxing ability
that kept me where I was at and God
punished me and he gave me a good
whooping he broke my jaw in the second
fight and he got me whooped and knocked
down in the Fraser fight and I realized
I wasn't that great after all so I had
to get not only together physically but
spiritually for this fight I've prayed
every day for five days five times a day
for the past uh uh four months and
everything is perfect and if Allah is
with me it ain't no way no man can win
no way and these things that uh really
this is also towards at what point in
his life was this I think it was after
he retired from boxing he began to
develop a real interest in studying the
Quran and studying Islam and and and
learning from from other teachers he
would go to the homes of of famous imams
and would study with them and just sit
at their table and and and listen um and
he wasn't speaking as much because his
voice was was was was Vanishing so he
really would just sit silently for hours
and listen and he would transcribe um
from the Quran and transcribe from from
from speeches from from others that
things that he'd read um books about
Islam and that's how he taught himself
by transcribing a lot of it because he
was not a great reader but if he
transcribed something into a notebook or
onto a note card his brain was would
would would absorb it so he liked to do
that he also liked to um copy down the
the um contradictions in the Christian
Bible and point out all of the things in
there that couldn't be true because it
said something opposite in one part of
the Bible so he loved um Gathering a
bunch of of Christians around and I
always ask my mother I said mother how
come is everything white I said why is
Jesus white with blond ha and blue eyes
why is the Lord's Supper all white men
angels of white pop and the Mary and
every even the angels I said mother when
we die do we go to heaven she said
naturally we go to heaven I said but
what happened to all the black angels
they took the
picture all the mistakes that are in
your Bible now and then teaching them
about the Quran he he really liked the
idea of of of playing that role of
teacher and he would often you know
there'd be these sports fans who just
wanted to be around Ali and he said come
back to my hotel room and the next three
hours he'd be talking to them about the
Bible versus the Quran and you know bore
them to tears but um but he he he
enjoyed that I think it was important
about him being also a peacemaker going
to other parts of the world and calling
for this Unity you know this because
obviously there's you know great
misunderstanding about Islam Today you
can't doubt it many politicians have
exploited that fact but but even at his
time it wasn't as obviously as bad I
don't think um but he was uh talking to
um Americans here about Islam encourages
them to look into it then he would go
abroad and visit different countries and
you know talk about you mentioned this
in your book yeah he would travel a lot
um throughout the Muslim World in
particular because he was the best known
Muslim in America and he would say that
the Muslims need to understand America
and Amer need to understand the Muslims
better because this was before 911 but
there were still these terrorist attacks
um you
know there was attack on the base in in
Lebanon and there were all
these even before 911 there was an image
in some Americans mind of prejudice that
that Muslims were terrorists and that
was you know a generic label that was
applied and Ali really wanted to to
fight that so he traveled around the
world and in in places that not a lot of
Americans went you know he went to
Pakistan and Afghanistan
and gave these lectures about the
importance of trying to build Bridges
between the two societies and the two
religions yeah how was how did how did
that shift happen where at a time how
was he foreseen by the American public
when he refused to go into the war and
how that all changed I mean he went from
being someone I mean was he he was like
despised wasn't he he was absolutely the
most I I believe the most hated man in
America the most hated the most hated
man in America during the late 60s um
when he refused to fight in Vietnam and
announced his Allegiance with the Nation
of Islam which the FBI considered a
terrorist cult and he was stripped of
his boxing license he he couldn't work
he couldn't travel outside the country
and that only began to change over time
and a couple things happened one is the
Vietnam War became terribly unpopular
and people realized that that he had a
point in opposing it and they also began
to believe that his he was at least
legitimate in his religious beliefs that
he wasn't faking it you know whether you
liked the Nation of Islam or not you had
to admit the guy was was loyal and truly
believed or else he wouldn't have given
up three and a half years of his career
and millions of dollars to stand up for
his religious beliefs and then later by
the 90s um you he becomes a much more
beloved figure in part because he's been
silenced by this disease by by Parkinson
you he he doesn't talk as much so he
just becomes kind of like a teddy bear
we all want to hug him and and and love
him and then he goes around giving these
speeches about religious tolerance and
and he becomes a much more um just um
you know figure that we can all um
appreciate more well what another thing
that inspires me and then there's it it
shows that the earlier part of his life
and it's like anyone who's it's hard
to fame opens up a whole another world
of of Temptation and Corruption and all
these things that you know tant are
calling you right and you get
susceptible to that and some people
can't overcome it and some people they
drown themselves in in all the things
that come with it right and there's that
part of his life but then it just shows
that you know a person who had you know
no man's perfect you know you make
mistakes and in the earlier part of his
life you know you can see where and it
goes with that story where he admits you
know I've done some bad things but then
it shows you know the that he he really
relied on the mercy of God and he was
really spending the the L latter part of
his life because it didn't he didn't he
didn't talk about that he truly started
to become a man until his like late what
was it late 30s early that he finally
matured right uh and then he started to
really change his life and start to be a
humanitarian and and and give back
that's right and he said often that you
know this disease in many ways may have
been a gift because it forced him to
slow down it forced people to look at
him differently and to say say you know
he was the greatest the fastest the
strongest the prettiest and now look
he's he's trembling he can't speak but
he was never ashamed of it he stood up
there in public and let people see him
that way first of all I want to thank
almighty God Allah for you
all thank God for my talent all the
praise and honor that
go who are you most grateful to for your
career
Allah all my sucess all my protection
all my
FES all
my
victory all my
carage everything come
from he and he said I want people to see
me this way because they'll know that
we're all human um and it'll help other
people to deal with their problems so he
was in some ways you know he was the
biggest egotist of all time but in some
ways he was really humble and um really
believed that he was no no no different
from anybody else so after speaking to
all these countless you know Ray of
different people people who were you
know there from the beginning how did
that leave you off you know um uh the
feeling you know the it's like you you
know him better now than than you
know9 yeah I know him better than you
know I know some of my own family you
know it's funny because there were times
when I and this happens with your own
family too there were times where I was
just so mad at him and how could you
behave that way how could you be so
stupid how could you say such a thing
but he always won me over again he
always came back and did something um to
charm me and to make me feel like he was
a good person in the end and um It's
Complicated anytime you devote four
years of of your life or more to diving
into another person's life there's going
to be some stuff that that disturbs you
but um overall I felt like um I you know
I that I love the guy so so that took
you you said four four years to come
yeah a little more than four years wow
that's that's it um you know that's a a
full-time job you know dedicated four
year people go to college four years
right this is the learn more in these
four years wow got a degree in Muhammad
Ali yeah uh so your your your book now
is uh is titled Ali and this is going to
be where can people get the book it goes
on sale October 3rd it'll be on Amazon
and all the bookstores independent
neighborhood bookstores should all have
it it uh I hope people will check it out
and there an audio book and an ebook too
so it should be easy to find you're
going to have it on um on Audible yes
yeah are you the one that's uh no they
they got a real actor to somebody better
than me yeah well uh Jonathan I
appreciate you spending the time with us
here on the dean show and sharing some
of these insights from his life
hopefully we can there was a lot to
cover hopefully uh God willing we can
have you back you know because there's a
lot more to talk about you know anytime
it's a it's a big book but we had a
short amount of time God bless you thank
you very much thank you and thank you
guys for tuning in Jonathan with his new
book
Ali and make sure you check it out and
we'll see you next time here in the dean
show until until then peace be with you
what's the best thing I can do get ready
to meet
God owning real estate going in business
teaching boxers that won't get me to
heaven
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