smilla hamdulillah Salam alaikum welcome
to the Deen show and our special guest
doctor I'm a Danish yes
how are you Sheikh how so your medical
doctor by profession also an educator
that is correct tell us a little bit
more about your yourself for the
audience well I grew up in India I came
to the US when I was 25 years of age
about 15 years ago I'm a medical doctor
by training and for the last six years
we have been running an Islamic school
in Harvey Illinois and there's a unique
project because we have a vision that we
should not turn away any child from our
door for the lack of their ability to
pay well hamid la vie started with three
students in 2012 and now we had about
120 students enrolled this year and just
one of six years is this a myth there's
a reality were in the community it's
usually okay number one the parents push
them to be a doctor then an engineer and
then they put like imam at the lowest
end unfortunately that is very true I
don't know if it is just the third thing
maybe there are some more steps and
maybe some more yes but unfortunately I
think it depends on where you are from
so especially the part of the world I
come from unfortunately the importance
given to people who pursue religious
education is not as much as it should be
so yeah I mean for us it was like you
know the top most the most brightest
kids go to the medical school then the
engineering or maybe the dentists and
engineering and you know after that if
they can't really if they are the sense
that they're not doing really great in
school by the time the electoral 13 then
they probably start thing of putting
them in a mother so but how would you
change the mindset what do you think are
some fields especially nowadays in the
growing Islamophobia climate where
Muslims should be a part of these
certain fields that are out there that
you'd recommend instead of just these
two or three absolutely so I think the
the focus has to change from education
purely as a means of gaining livelihood
because I think that that's that's at
the core of the issue I'm sure that
tomorrow if you were to make sure that
every mom gets paid $200,000 a year
everyone be flocking to become an imam
so I think that's the core issue so I
think going forward we have to really go
back to what
or predecessor straight we have to make
sure that our education is not
dichotomize like what is this right now
so right now it's like either you become
either a purse or a this education like
I'm becoming scholar are you pursue
purely secular academics with the aim
that okay I'm gonna become a doctor and
you make it you know make good amount of
money so those two things are very
important that we we should break that
cycle we should not have this dichotomy
neural education we should make sure
that we are giving our children
wholesome education right from when they
are kids by five sixty of age and we
have to hone them in both we have to
make sure that they get good solid
foundation Islamic education at the same
time they excel at their academics
English math science social so by the
time there are 17 years of age we want
them what we what I want to call them
pluripotent cells so pluripotent cells
are in our when we are an embryo these
cells are not specialized yet this cell
can become your brain cell it can become
your eye it can become your ear cell it
can become your liver cell wall whatever
it's specialized it's not specialized
but it will specialize after that phase
so we want our kids to be such when
they're seventeen that after that if
they become a doctor so be it if you can
engineer so be it
if they become a scientist so be it if
they become the gear into media and mass
marketing so be it
but they need to have their focus
there's a grounding Islamic education
and some of them surely we want them to
excel in secular academics and then
pursue religious education so that our
Imams are the most knowledgeable people
that we have so that they can become the
the mouthpiece for the whole community
that's what you want masha'Allah when
you were giving a talk you gave an
example and what do you think this does
when the student comes to the University
and a professor he writes on the wall on
the on the board he says no God here now
you're Muslim your faith is not you know
maybe just kind of going through the
rituals you're not well grounded or
maybe you are but what do you think this
does to the psyche when you see this the
professor PhD academic and he puts on
the board no wall no God here absolutely
I mean this is a reality there are
people in the academic field we didn't
just make this up this no no this
happened this happened to my friend who
actually
mentioned is that you know I didn't grow
up here I didn't go to college here I
went on to like oh I did only my
residency training here but he is born
and raised here so he said he took a
class in psychology this was college
level class the first day of the school
the professor you know there's this
large group of students the professor
goes rights guard on the black board or
the white board then puts a cross
through it and says this does not exist
he does not even say he it says this
does not exist but this is referring to
this is reverting to guard he puts a
cross through the word guard yeah he
said this does not exist and then he
says we're gonna have our psychology
class with the understanding that this
does not exist purely they're trying to
show that my psyche as a human being I
can understand and make sense of reality
without the guard being in the picture
or the discussion and I think that's a
huge problem in many levels first for
those students who actually have no
basis in Islam unfortunately they have
been through schooling where in most of
their like you know ninety-five percent
of the time was spent acquiring secular
academics it would be a challenge for
them for their Deen for the Iman there
are unfortunately people who lose their
faith I mean I do a lot of you know you
counseling also and unfortunately I do
have people who come and say you know
what I I know what we have been taught
but I don't really believe in this all
right our ahem I'm having problems
believing this because this is what
youth are telling you absolutely this is
the reality then we have to brace upward
and one thing I would want parents for
understand is that your child will make
a duplicate personality so he will tell
you what you want here but what is going
on in his or her head they will share
with only people who are very close to
them and unfortunately the Petersons are
close they might not know and I've seen
you I mean Indian eyes I saw you given
like the high-five or you're kind of
like connecting with the kids you know
what I mean right you see there's a lack
of connection with some of the let's say
the people of knowledge of the Imams and
then they feel like they're not
approachable you felt by doing these
things it seems like you're making it
seem opening a door like approachability
I think it's very important for
educators for Imams for student people
who are dealing with our youth that we
have to contextualize our teaching so we
are not in let's say you know
bull or karate or Heather but we are in
the Chicago we are in LA really we are
in New York we need to understand that
our children are not Bosnians or not
Indians Pakistanis Bangladeshis or
Syrians they are Americans so they do
have they do have some norms that have
formed in their heads and we need to
make sure that as long as they are not
an Islamic we should connect to them at
that level so that we can build a bridge
through which we can share communication
if not that that bridge will be broken
and then you will not be able to reach
out to your child but somebody else will
either on the internet by Facebook or in
the classroom they will reach them they
will reach out to them and then that's
gonna be a big problem so speak in the
vernacular of the the new fan our day is
being able to speak their language
absolutely it's a very important
understanding the culture how important
it is very northern part is crucial I
think without that we can't really we
can't really teach our children we have
to understand but obviously we have to
know what the Islamic limits are so yes
I would definitely do high fire and make
sure that they are okay but I will not
ask them to come come you know have a
dance party so we have to draw lines
where we know that okay this is Islam
this is culture so Islam needs to stay
where it is but whatever cultural issues
that we have whatever country you come
from I think we have to really move away
from those so that we are we are
teaching them Islam in their culture
rather than teaching them as laminar
Islam is the same all over the world but
it has to be contextualize to the
culture that we are living in and I
think that's very important for us to
give that to our children in that
context you were talking about this the
importance because there's no separation
when you learn in a Nadeem Islam it's in
the math it's in the science talk about
that how there's never been this Academy
of separating the two so let me give you
an example of the times that we call the
golden period of Islam right well of
course Rasulullah is last learn when the
Sahaba that was the golden period and
all that they got in the world after the
advent of Deen all the success that the
guard definitely it was quote-unquote
success in this world right because a
lot of us gonna give them whatever he is
gonna be them you know but all that was
acquired through the means whatever they
had at their disposal right but if you
fast-forward to maybe
about 12th century AD when you're
talking about the time period of Rosalee
Ramallah all these scholars there are
polymaths so they were Islamic scholars
and they were scientists and they were
physicists they were chemists they were
up you know optics like most of her you
know current optics the the person who
started with barony barony he's the
person who really started the whole
concept of optics and light and how
light travels and all these cameras are
visibly they all function on the basis
of the education that the science that
he gave from this Muslim from this
Muslim Albania so this dichotomy did not
exist at that point of time knowledge
was sort for the sake of knowledge
because it was again going back to the
first point I mentioned it was not a
means of your livelihood that was
completely separate people really
struggle in their lives for knowledge
whether that knowledge gave them
livelihood or not and of course I'm
Allah at that point of time we had
resources wherein the scholars would be
supported by the hanifa supported by you
know rich people at that time because
they understood the importance of
knowledge now we don't have those
resources so the community has to take
up the responsibility and we have to
make sure that anybody who's pursuing
knowledge in any field we got to make
sure that we support them and that I
think that so that way the dichotomy
will break we have to make sure there
were schools our Islamic schools are
well funded so that we get them the best
teachers from all aspects whether it be
religious sciences whether it be secular
sciences whether it be mathematics which
they're it be geometry whatever the case
may be
optics are you know whether in mass
media we need to make sure that we
accelerate whatever we do and that needs
funding and that brings us to the issue
of the whole chicken and egg thing you
know if you have a small school we don't
have enough funds the funds are going to
come and we have a lot of people but
people are not going to come until it's
a big school because they're not
comfortable so what comes first you know
so somebody has to take that step and we
have to make sure that we put in our
resources first certain force most of
our children we need to be pretty know
children right right institutions so
that we are safeguarding their Deen and
we let them form a norm of Islam in
their brain which can be applicable to
the current
yeah I don't know if you agree with me
here now but I think I have a right to
speak on this because I grew up here I
was born here I went to the public
institutions do you think some people
who come from overseas or some parents
who don't know the culture don't know
the schooling system they're naive
thinking that they can send their kids
to a public school public high school
you in a private school and have them
come out right fine I think that is that
is the biggest telling that I have so
far encountered with all my you know
what my my involvement in these projects
the big problem is not the children its
appearance we really have to convince
them that there is something so you know
and Dean we have I've heard I heard it
compared to like spiritual suicide like
and some some shakes that even say it
it's like flushing your kid that I don't
know if I'm coming to her if you like
flushing them down a toilet well you
know because all of the crazy stuff
they're exposed to absolutely I mean I I
I will put a caveat though that because
you always have some extremes yeah but
in general the example I give this is if
you have a car that is 1997
it's a beat-up van the tires a ball you
don't have lights and you know it's dark
and raining you can still reach your
destination but there's a very good
possibility gonna meet with an accident
so I think that's example of the public
school system here yeah not every child
will come out real bad but very likely
they will get affected you know there
are psyche so there that's one thing but
if you have a new car brand new car and
then you know you have bright daylight
and then traffic is fine most likely you
will even reach other stations i think
that's example of what we should provide
to our children in the schools our
schools so we really need to make our
own schools because the amount of an
Islamic influence that our public school
systems having children is unfathomable
especially as you mentioned for people
who are immigrants who have not really
been to school here they cannot even
imagine what we're talking about give us
some examples because there's Christians
and Jews who would agree with some of
they can hold too many good morals that
are there in Islam's same thing you know
it's a good commonality but we're losing
all those those things are laid out the
window give us
examples who can hit home let me give
you an example in the state of Indiana
alone there are more than hundred
thousand families who homeschool their
children mmm why would they do that they
have access to the best schools they put
in the money in the school system they
are paying millions and millions of
dollars but they still don't feel
comfortable just sending the child there
one hundred thousand one hundred
thousand families in one state of India
Indiana Wow
yeah why because they are very concerned
about the influence of you know what I
call security Keeler humanism you know
it is a religion these are probably a
lot of predominate Christians who are
Christian family about one hurts all
Christian family this instead of Indiana
who send their children who do
homeschooling because they got fed up
with the system that's around them so
things like that you know initially we
used to call about gender orientation
now it's an even issue of gender
identity now what's going on is there
the child is said you know what you can
choose what you want to be what you want
to be called what you want to be
addressed when you're old enough I mean
as recently I was hard on where in the
mom and the dad returned you know
sitting with the children's you know and
you should not pressure them to choose
their gender yet they will choose it
whenever they choose it when they grow
up this is happening now
so you have a chance of sending your kid
who's a boy to let's say this is one of
these institutions and then he comes out
says no I'm a girl absolutely yeah if
that's not if that's not already
happening I definitely know for sure
that there are Muslim youth boys and
girls who have come out openly and say
they they are you know gay they are a
lesbian it is it is definitely in system
I have not met anyone yet who has said
that I would want to choose my own
gender but I don't see it to be
impossible or even improbable in the
next 10-15 years because we are we are
primarily a product of our environment
whatever we see what are we here
whatever we you know interact with
that's what we imbibe and the idea of
what is right and wrong
Allah Allah says the Koran is for con
Quran is the word is tougher AHA means
to make the difference between right and
wrong but when you don't have that the
Center for education then they will
choose and accept values that are around
them and you know we have to understand
this is one of the the fitna that we are
facing today that in order everything
that is an Islamic is being presented as
something good
you know so okay well you know what see
this is issue of choice if that child
does not feel like he's a boy then why
should I force it on them so they're
bringing it as an issue of freedom of
expression freedom of choice freedom of
speech but I think the issue is that V
as muslin needs to understand that allah
samantha has not made us free we are his
slaves
he made us whatever he made us and Allah
Allah has given as a responsibility is
based on what he has made us so that is
something that's really important we
need to we need to be aware that yes
these children when they go there every
single day for eight hours a day 17
hours 7 to 17 years of their life
they're exposed to what they're being
exposed to whether it be issues with
gender identification or gender gender
orientation whether it be other values
marriage you know the lack of their lack
lack of so on and so forth that's one
part so you know there are two main ways
that the children I think they're
affected one is the the Shabbat the the
doubts that they creep in their mind
because of what they see if you see
something that is so common and then you
tell them that you don't know that's not
right they can have it down second thing
is Shabbat the desires you know what
they are exposed to every single day you
know the the nudity and you know the
fries mixing and you know the the fact
that they have no limits on their
relationships I think that those two
things are very very detrimental to our
children so that's the reason why I
think because a lot Allah says Allah is
none for second wahala come not all
people who believe save yourself and
your families from the fire and I think
we have to make sure that we establish
institutions where and we can we can
give this to our children you're a great
example example dr. Danish that you're a
medical doctor you're an educator but
you're still holding on to the way of
life that was sent by the Creator to
heavens and earth
you're still living your purpose and
from that purpose that's how human being
gets peace and you and but many people
they see this this contradiction well
you can't do the two but you're a great
example of being able to do that I mean
I would really be afraid to say that I'm
a great example but you know
alhamdulillah what whatever I have seen
here I am NOT the only person I know
lots and lots of people at hamdullah who
are really holding not with
doing great work and at the same time
there they're excelling in their secular
academics you know I mean one of the
teachers you probably already know in
very famous in Chicago she Hosanna
blessed ah you know he's a pathologist
at UFC I mean one of the top most top
light Institute in the whole world if
not the US and the whole world and he
still is a very you know traditional
teacher of being so on and so forth so
it's not impossible it's just that we
have to set our priorities make sure
they're what children get their
normative psychology in place for the
first 16 17 years and then shala we hope
that they are so strong in their Deen
that when they are 17 when they go to
college they will not follow trends
electrons yeah they will say someone
calls them to a disco party and then
they'll call them to drugs and violence
and sex they're gonna say you know what
I can't do this even though it is very
enticing I can't do this because I have
a purpose in life and we have been
created by higher being and we have been
we are we are will be answerable for
that at the same time they won't have
lose out any of any of theirs Academy in
fact I think all those things are
distraction I mean if you have been to
college here you know that those four
years it's probably the time wherein the
Shaitaan is you because the kids are out
of their school their house they don't
really have any protection so that's
when they completely flip out so if our
children can be grounded and then they
pursue their education I think it's not
difficult at all it's just that we have
to have that vision and create
institutions so that for the first 16 17
of their life we safeguard them and make
them strong both academically and
islamically so that when they grow up
and when they are in college they will
they'll set trends when what helps you
to have the confidence nowadays
Islamophobia just huge and as a medical
doctor an educator also someone who's
out there living this way of life have
you had situations where you've been
attacked say verbally has anybody tried
to because a lot of people they'll end
up Mohammed will come mol they'll start
they lacked that confidence you have
that confidence you're living your Deen
as a professional where what helps you
get this confidence in a zeal so maybe
this can go now you know where people
are lacking that maybe this can help
them to be proud to be unapologetically
one who has submitted to the will of God
muslin I think I would give a lot of
credit to my teachers because and also
ultimately it's we have we all have to
constantly work on our Iman so if I
believe that what I'm doing is right and
I believe that one day after star in
front of allah subhanaw taala
and I believe that Allah is gonna give
me Jenna base illustrative how I live my
life here as far as the worldly pursuits
are concerned so if once we have that
strength I think we should just act
based on what this is right and I always
teach myself because you know back home
in India I'm from India and then even
other parts of the world you know we see
persecution going on so and so and so on
and so for sometimes can be very
depressing but I always think my wife
made there's a full niqab so you know as
you said sometimes people pass comments
and I think I'm the Lavi are pretty okay
in the u.s. you know there are part at
least because we the love me we're okay
but what's the worst that would happen
somebody could hurt us if Allah Allah
has willed that Allah you know that's
gonna happen it's gonna happen but we
cannot leave our Deen for that fear
because ultimately what is gonna happen
have a small loss will of Allah so Allah
but we are not responsible for changing
our way of life based on that fear we
are responsible for doing what Allah
Allah wants us to do and as long as
Allah Allah wants us to keep us safe
we'll be safe and if Allah Tala wants to
test one of his slaves by putting in a
situation so be it
Rasool Allah is lies let me mentioned at
you know how about how he I know he was
very young why he was 78 years old he
said for the law yeah Ithaca that
protect Allah Allah protect you how do
you protect a la Lala lies without water
but protect the deen of allah you stick
to your Deen Allah will protect you and
I think that is something that we have
to put in our children for the first 17
years of their life so that when they go
to college you know they are at ease
with who they are and I think that
that's also something that that's very
important that in order if we are not
following Islam as a cultural way of
life but this truly deeply had this from
conviction this is the truth then I
think the confidence that comes from us
affects people around us and we can tell
them that you know what this is what I
believe this is what anything is right
think 95% of people they are reasonable
people yes they're very reasonable
people I think they understand that and
then there are some people who not cases
we like we have ours they have theirs
and I think the children will be when we
grow up with our children grow up they
will be able to deal with those things
but I think we have to just put that in
mind that you know this is right I think
that issue is very important we have to
have conviction it is right and then be
prepared for some sacrifices even lords
would think we always ask Allah to Allah
that Allah keep us safe but if some harm
comes to us harm has come to the UM BIA
has come to Sahaba harm has come to all
our predecessors and you know sometimes
a lot Allah puts people in situations
that a lot Allah wants to test then
their more beloved to him we should be
we should be ready for that yeah
absolutely as ridiculous as we know it
is but sometimes people who tuned in and
they are really zapped with all the
propaganda that's out there how do you
address the issue and someone tries to
equate a Muslim or Islam with terrorism
well how do you answer that it depends
on who is speaking I think so there are
as I said a vast majority of people are
very reasonable people you know in my
profession I have been here for like
almost 15 years now I've met I have
probably met like twenty thousand people
and my career here because I see about
10-12 people every day every single day
let me give you a small example I don't
shake hands with women and that creates
a huge issue because every single person
second person I see the hospital is the
woman but if I explain to them that you
know I shake my I put my hands here and
I say you know work I have a pact with
my wife I don't shake hands or hug young
women like yourself and my wife does the
same to honor or marriage and I hope
that we can understand I don't mean to
offend you 95% of people will appreciate
that there are some people who take
offense you can't really make everyone
happy and there have been instances
where in one of one person she actually
got her cellphone out and she dialed her
husband and so you know I want to speak
to you this doctor and he she asked me
to tell him what I just did Wow
yeah she like like she like she liked it
she liked it she said that you know what
we really want people to keep their
hands to himself especially this way we
really want people to keep their hands
to themselves especially with all the
sex scandals in our days yes what's
happened
right now if we can explain to them that
you know what in the way of life that I
follow that has been taught to me by
Mohamed Salah is Allah we respect and
honor women and for that reason these
are protections that we have that you
know what leave alone
now the Billa harassing them we don't
even touch them as if unless they are
very closely to us like my wife my
sister or my daughter or my mom and
women really appreciate that even men
appreciate that
just stick two days ago it I mean it
happens to me almost every day because I
every day I see new patient there was an
older gentleman in the bed I went in and
I introduced myself and I'm doctor I'm I
so and so and there was his grandson and
the grandson's girlfriend so she
explained her hand I explained this so
the both the girl and the boyfriend both
of them were happy is like you know
there's something there's something that
we should think of if we get married if
we get married so that you know we keep
our bond strong yeah so Islam a lot
Allah has put this discussion this you
know attraction in it but we have to
present it in a nice way most of the
time people understand and there are
some people who will not understand yeah
and these other people you know who a
lot the last put you know veil on their
heart yeah and you know that we have to
be dis prepared because we can't make
everyone happy this yeah so then you
make this example then how do you now
when you were you were leading into the
question well as far as like when people
try to make Islam like its violent and
right you know so this is this is I
think education I think education
education educating people but I think
the most important part is how we behave
as Muslims in our workplace are now our
behavior attitude we want to be seen as
people who are helpful we want to be
seen as people who are who are punctual
at work we excel at what we do and we
are respectful to people and when those
things are said because I always give
the example Rasul Allah Allah Allah
stolen before he was given new Bua
before he became a Nabi for 40 years he
had his credibility in Makkah for 40
years pre-produced Valley Masada his I
mean he was the true he's the trustful
we want that to be the case with the
people when when I worked for some
someone for 20 years and that person
says no we're not this person is a
truthful honest person I think when I
say something they will listen
yeah when you said something they will
listen but we
to be that person and that is more of us
working on our own cells than the people
around us and also the propaganda can
help only to an extent for the people
like you know somebody wants to make
people think that Muslims are terrorists
so on and so forth but let's say that
20,000 people I have worked with if you
ask I'm sure in the inch'allah in the LA
70 to 80% of them will say you know what
they're telling these things about
Muslims but I have like you know doctor
I met and plus all these like 10 people
I have worked with for last 15 years and
we work with them we eat with them we
you know you know we are every day with
together and I don't see anything these
people and all that preparing or not
that they have done is down the drain
yeah but that is something that we
really have to for that we have to make
our children such strong personalities
that when they go to workforce they hold
on to their Deen and at the same time
they are willing to teach people with
respect affection and love what Deen is
all about without confronting them
because you know it's family yes and
Allah says that you know we have to
repel evil with good yeah I like that
I'm gonna I
that's a nice slogan we keep our hands
to ourselves and especially like I said
in today's day and age I just do tell
you know work my wife accuse me on a
short leash yeah she doesn't want my
hands to touch any other woman and you
have all of these Weinstein's in this
person this Hollywood producer you got
people you know not just keeping our
hands to ourselves lowering our gaze not
being alone with the opposite gender and
if you implement those things all of
these and explain them and explain that
it's a context I think because for
example just same thing if I just say
you know what I don't shake hands yeah
then you have not explained why you did
then she will think oh maybe she's
studying thinking because women are
inferior in his mind or maybe he has
nothing to do with that nothing nothing
to do so then you it depends on if you
have good conversation most of the time
this opens up an avenue for Dawa yes you
tell them then you know I do this
because not because I think you're
unclean because my mom is a woman my
wife my daughter my teachers not I think
not because I think you're inferior
because you are sacrosanct you are
sacred for me you know you are someone's
daughter someone's wife someone's mother
and that's why I want to keep my hands
to myself yeah I think any reasonable
woman will understand where I'm coming
any reasonable human being understand
that just makes sense thank you very
much
pleasure same Avenue Giselle ahead
Sherlock - we'll have you back again
thank you very much all Islamic holy
crap