peace be with you
welcome to the Dee show subscribe if you
haven't already my next guests didn't
want to have anything to do with
religion turned away from religion its
variously until someone came preaching
to him about religion and not about
Islam actually called him to believe in
Jesus as your Lord and Savior and this
was a Christian giving him dower and
then he came back to Islam you also know
his brother who was used to being a pop
pop punk rock band I got a surprise for
you with my next guest here on the D
show don't go anywhere
I think I'm a salam on a hotel law now
the surprise was it's not many have
watched the show we did from punk rock
to Islamic people lazy to slim it's
actually not sad but for hat that's
right as your Tsar's brother yes that's
right older brother older brother yes
that's right so used to look down on
people of religion or used to turn away
from religion and didn't want to have
anything to do with religion yeah there
was a point where especially after
college around my college age I didn't
want anything to do with people religion
if I saw someone you know with a beard
or anything like that I just feel like I
need to stay away from this person
they're probably crazy they're gonna
tell me to do things I probably don't
want to do and so I would just kind of
look down upon people and and that's
where I was until like my first job even
right now many people when you say
religion a lot of people want to turn to
now because they think they're gonna
hear some weird right like mystical
esoteric he is some that it's not
comprehendible but uh why is it now like
and that's pretty typical people in the
Universities you know imitating the
professors you know one professor went
towards atheism to justify you know
whatever he was doing someone else
followed along and that's like the cool
thing absolutely well you tell religion
is not cool what's up with that well I
mean that has you know that has I would
say has historical precedence I mean
when you look at when you do any sort of
a study of let's say like the history of
science for instance you'll see that
there was a certain time in Europe when
there was just kind of you know back and
forth between religion and science and a
lot of that is kind of stuck and that is
permeated down come down to us today
where culturally it just it's not you
know it's not very couth or not very
cool to be religious anymore because
religion is kind of tied to being
ignorant in a way but a lot of that is a
throwback to Europe and and you know
some of the issues that were you know
that they that the West specifically
dealt with in Europe at that time
I think Islam is the coolest thing yeah
I agree I mean now now I agree
it's it's rational it's logical it has
it provides all of the I mean look we're
gonna die you know we're gonna leave all
of this entertainment and all of these
things of the of the world behind sure
so I mean there's got to be something
more I mean then then just play an
amusement and Islam answers all those
questions that are riddling the mind
yeah that's fine I mean obviously you
found out the same thing yeah absolutely
I mean you know going back to the to the
lady my manager actually she came up to
me and you know she said you know I
you're a Muslim and I was like yeah
Muslim I don't really practice much and
then she started to preaching to me
about you know Christianity and loving
Jesus and all these things and then
she's like you know he was the son of
God and and you know at the time I
didn't really know much about Islam but
I knew that what she was saying was it
didn't really make sense to me at all I
mean what she was saying didn't really
make sense but that's when I actually
started studying Islam and when I
started stabbing studying Islam you know
I just kind of fell in love with it and
it was kind of no stopping after that
point now you you have everyone for
instance someone of the Christian faith
they will tell you okay
believe in Jesus your Lord and Savior
and then you have a ticket to paradise
sir okay that's one worldview sir and an
intelligent person he would want to
examine you know the different claims
that are out there
what's the atheist claim like after cuz
we die and then so Islam is saying okay
after you die and to me when I
investigated all the different world
religions there's got to be one that's
not counterfeit that's not man-made that
is from the crater and it's got to be
based on proof it's got to be authentic
it has to make sense also right and
Islam answered all those questions that
after I leave this world a short world
because people are dying right now as we
speak you're not guaranteed tomorrow so
what what does before I get into this
what what does the the atheist what's
what's his answer to after we leave this
life well what's really interesting is
that there's no you know when you look
when you dig really deep into atheism
you you really don't find like like a
pure atheist what you would have is
maybe an extreme agnostic at best
because there is no you can you can say
like positive case to affirm the
non-existence of God like you can't
positively say that what
you can say it you can critique religion
you can critique you know people that
believe in God or whatever maybe but for
you to form a positive case it's just
not there you know and one of the things
that I found really interesting is one
of the ayahs in the Quran one of the one
of the verses in the Quran where Allah
addresses atheism right and and the
Arabic goes something like I'm gonna
come in a lady shade I'm home on Harley
horn I'm Holocaust a Marathi well art
but now you can own that were they
create from nothing or did they create
themselves or did they create the
heavens in the earth no rather they are
uncertain what I thought was interesting
aside from the argument itself was the
fact that Allah God uses the term
uncertain in the sense that it's not
that they don't know otherwise God would
have said lana moon they don't know but
now you okay no they're not certain so
atheism it doesn't lead to a position of
certainty you can't be an absolute
atheist and sense that you know for a
fact that God doesn't exist so I mean
with the Atheist narrative you're never
gonna get a position of certainty by any
means now what would you consider you
said you're a Muslim how many people can
relate to this there in the universities
you know focusing on the degree and
parents didn't really connect them with
their creator they went through some
traditions the movements didn't really
know what they were saying to so but if
you ask them they put down on paper
Muslim but we know Muslim is one who
surrenders consciously to the will of
God what how would you have classified
yourself at that time oh you mean before
I met my manager and all that yeah would
you say I was a part-time or some I was
you know probably a part-time Muslim
maybe maybe almost some Roma what would
you say maybe a pseudo Jimmu Muslim
that's what these terms are fake terms
and of course of course so yeah we I
would go for gym you know once in a
while cuz maybe my friends were going
yeah you know and I had Muslim friends
and so they would be going for Gemma and
say okay well I'll tag along you know
not not for the sermon of course just
for the prayer because you wanted to get
only the prayer yeah so yeah I mean
that's kind of where I was religiously
there wasn't really much there I mean I
you know I I you can say I believe in
the existence of God but beyond that it
was just I just don't want everything to
do with religion we know that at one
point Islam was the superpower of the
world sure you can not own
you run at the world with this you can
run your family your own dividual life
and at the end there's a promise that if
you live a peaceful life with your
Creator you do the things that he's told
you to do
upright human being according to the
guidance that God has sent that there's
a promise now of a great reward and and
then you you all you look at all the
evidences and at the end it's LOM helps
you to excel to be the best right right
so let's say you you live life as a
atheist you end up dying at the end if
it's not true nothing if we dive we
don't you know that's it it's the end
but the on the other side here you live
in this life it's helping you to become
the best sure you know there's there's a
complete blueprint to live by and at the
end here you have a lot to lose if
you're an atheist and all this is true
in your and you're doing you'reyou're
you're being lazy and not really
sincerely investigating this and so
again your whole salvation is I mean at
the end and at the end it's just just
dying you know I remember someone once
said that look the atheist position is
really interesting because it's three
nothing's you come from nothing your
purpose in life is nothing and your end
is nothing so it's nothing and just a
whole bunch of nothing you know it just
mind-boggling ruined it I just can't
wrap my mind around it but I think that
because with beliefs comes
responsibility absolutely so do you
think oh people now because they don't
want to because if you believe in a
creator you're gonna have to back this
up with your some other application
absolutely no I mean absolutely it comes
with a responsibility but I think maybe
that may be one of the perhaps one of
the impediments for people considering
religion at all right to think if I
consider religion well then I may have
something to do or some sort of
obligation and you know what I don't
want to do it right now right now I just
want to party live it up and you know
maybe when I get old
sure I'll consider being a religious
person or you know consider God even but
for right now I'm just gonna go with
what's you know what's invoked and of
course what's in vogue is to not believe
in God or just you know to be an atheist
or whatever it may be so I'm just gonna
live my life like that for now and when
it comes down to the end then we'll
figure it out at that point we have a
lot more to talk about when we mentioned
the rock band your we talked about now
someone actually Christian talking to
you about Jesus's that kind of trick
get back into religion and I keep saying
evidence evidence evidence right right
so we have a lot to talk about don't go
anywhere right back here on the Dean
show please subscribe to the DCO follow
us on our official Facebook and Twitter
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here on the D show okay so continue on
with the story your kind of you said a
pseudo Juma Muslim right yeah so I was a
pseudo Juma Muslim you know I then I
graduated from college I got my first
job and I run into this you know this
manager of mine she's pushing
Christianity down my throat practically
why shouldn't say down my throat but you
know she was pushing me to become
Christian or consider Christianity and I
just at the time it didn't it didn't it
didn't make any sense
you know and what she was telling me
Jesus dying for your sins you know one
thing that I remember having a
conversation with someone I said look if
if Jesus died for my sins and is it a
sin to not not believe that he died for
my sin and the person said yeah I said
so I'm good right because he died for my
sins and that's a sin so I don't have to
worry about it so anyway but it just it
didn't really it didn't really resonate
with me at all you know and then that's
when I started to explore some it made
sense it you know just the the things
that I was dealing with in terms of
whether it was personally spiritually
socially even economically things I was
doing with my life and it just started
answering questions you know from one
end to the other so amazing tell us rock
band who was it in it now does your
brother know you the lead person in the
rock band I have nothing I had nothing
to do with the rock band so just your
brother that was just that was all him
yeah okay but you this story that we did
with your brother you were the one
helping to get him out from this
lifestyle well of course first and
foremost it was a law that took him out
of the lifestyle you know but yeah you
know we would have kind of spirited
conversations especially when was in the
rock band kind of what he was doing and
you know the fact he was in a rock band
and you know we'd go back and forth you
know as brothers do you know brothers
might typically argue about who gets the
top bunk or whatever it is and we would
have kind of spirited conversations
about religion the purpose of life and
you know all of that and
we're going and we're going to end up
and all that so someone says look they
just heard rock band so what's wrong I
like rock music Yolo you only live once
well here's the thing I mean sure I mean
there's a lot of things that people like
but just because you like something
doesn't mean it's always necessarily
good for you second point is doesn't
mean you necessarily know what's good
for you and what's not good for you in
kind of this broad idea right you know
we read in the Quran for instance Allah
says Allah who ya lamu want to blot
Allah moon
that Allah knows God knows and you don't
write in another verse Allah says well
multi-terminal and kalila we've given
you a little bit of knowledge right this
little bit of knowledge God knows the
entirety so with this little knowledge
we always make decisions we get angry
based on this little bit of knowledge we
you know we were a rash we're impatient
and all this is based on this little bit
of knowledge so if I was to say look
there's something that's not good for
you and you say well that doesn't make
any sense well where is it coming from
it's coming from someone that has
knowledge that is vast that is infinite
versus us when we have this just the
speck of knowledge and we're making
decisions based upon that does it make
more sense to go with that which has
infinite knowledge or to trust yourself
on each occasion yeah I mean it's a
great point you have drug addicts they
love drugs thank you but it's definitely
not good absolutely absolutely no the
criminals a lot of them like stealing
many of them and it's not actually good
for them or society but the crater knows
exactly it's good exactly yeah a lot of
time you don't like working out but it's
good for you and you know that's an
example I give a lot of people if you
want a six-pack right right now you have
to go through pain to get your six packs
but in the end the result is good right
you look good so so I mean humm do the
line this is a great thing because you
never know when those good pieces of
those good words good advice will pay
off those good seeds that you planted
obviously by the permission of the
creator that has an earth they sprouted
and your brother actually went on to
study
absolutely absolutely Medina University
and so much good came out of it I'm
there hamdullah so tell us now I
mentioned evidence right right many
religions there's just about blind faith
just believe you show you you you start
talking about religion and you know you
get into some very important questions
authenticity
and you see that their arguments fall
apart you you have a book that's that's
not authentic but Islam is different
it's not absolutely just saying that
you're biased now cuz you're Muslim well
no I mean yeah I mean definitely there
is a slight bias there but you know it's
Aslam one of the things that I really
find beautiful about Islam is that it's
it's it's rational and it's natural as
well and when I say that now I'll give
an example what I mean you know the
other day I was at a must and in
the amount of the mush had asked me to
speak to a young woman who was who was
Christian and she came in and you know
she had certain contentions and I said
look let's just stop for a second I want
to ask you when you give charity how do
you feel and she said I feel great
I said look in Islam we have a concept
of the natural state called the fitna
and we believe that every human being is
good and that you are and you are born
instead of goodness in Christianity you
believe in the original sin and when you
give charity you should feel rotten and
she was like that actually makes sense
and at the end she actually became
Muslim so yeah so I mean it's it's
natural and it's rational so what's more
fascinating is when you say she became
Muslim she didn't leave the love of
Jesus oh no Jesus practice Islam and he
was a Muslim absolutely clarify please
well I mean when you know when you speak
to Christians and one of the things that
we always tell them we say look it's not
you're not leaving the religion of Jesus
you are actually adopting the path of
Jesus like how he worshipped his creator
and you're following Jesus the best you
possibly can if he returned today he
would recognize you he would see people
prostrating he would see people
worshipping God worshiping the person
that the worst being the being that he's
worshiping and you would be along with
him so you would be more christ-like
then perhaps you were before now this is
it true that the Quran has a challenge
sure it challenges the reader someone
who will claim that this is not from God
that there's things that you can do to
try to disprove it sure I mean the Quran
makes the claim you know that if you if
you feel that this is from other than
God then bring a chapter like it in one
verse it says bring a you know bring one
ayah like one verse like it and one of
the chaps is bringing quite on like it
so the challenge is there and it's been
there
you know from the very GetGo and no
one's really been able to meet it right
and it's it's it's you know it's
challenge relates to its consistency
internally and externally meaning when
you read the Quran it's not like it's
gonna tell you things that are just
fantastic or crazy right
there's your God is a green alien in the
sky or whatever that's just like well
that's crazy stuff but when you read the
Quran it's consistent like I said it's
has its basis in nature and the
intellect so when you read it and you
look outside in the world around you
it's not it's not gonna contradict
something external to the Quran and
internally it's gonna fit as well it's
gonna do me know the contradictions
inside as well and that's interesting
you mentioned green aliens and all this
other stuff things most people who go
away let's say from Islam or the
religion and I can understand because
there are a lot of in these man-made
religions hocus-pocus stuff that just is
way out gets really crazy but some of
these people who agnostic atheists that
call himself when you start to they come
at you really rational but when you
start to you know really talk to them
they start talking about aliens and UFOs
and all sorts of crazy exactly known
absolutely and you know that's kind of
you know you know one of the things we
talked about the natural state of the
human being one of the things about the
natural state is that the human
naturally is inclined towards worship
right naturally inclined towards
worshipping and we would say the Creator
but when that that idea is not there
there's something else that's that needs
to be replaced and a lot of times that
those ideas are replaced our aliens or a
rabbit's foot or whatever it may be
yeah we're gonna take a break here on
the D show don't go anywhere
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here on the Dean show so Fahad tell us
that now you were in the University and
it's very challenging you know you have
the whole world opens up to you it
reminds me of the ID for the last final
mission our center man kind of problem
how much peace be upon him like when he
sent gibreel in Salaam and he had showed
Jahannam and also Paradise and what was
surrounding both sure right and what was
surrounding
the Hellfire were the desirable things
things that aren't good for you but now
what was surrounding right then right it
was the undesirable things the things
that are good for you now right right
right and you see people rushing towards
the things that aren't good for you and
a lot of the universities and just out
there and it's hyper sexual Society
absolutely absolutely what are your
thoughts on this well you know I mean
believes the hadith I mean you know that
that that paradise is surrounded by
things that are difficult to do and the
Hellfire is is surrounded by things that
people desire you know and that's that's
true I mean one of another hadith that
you kind of just remind me of was where
the Prophet peace be upon him he said
that this world is a prison for the
believers and a paradise for the
disbelievers and I remember that there
was an incident I believe it was
hustling bustling or maybe Imam Shafi I
don't remember but he was once riding
along and you know he was dressed well
he looked okay and you know there was an
old Jewish man who was you know
disheveled look he was you know poor and
they know he grabbed the reins of
hustle-bustle tea and he said you know
didn't your prophet say that this world
is a prison for the believers and a
paradise for the disbelievers and he
said yeah he did he goes so how do you
explain on my state like I have I'm poor
I'm disheveled and Hassan robust today
he says to the man he says when I
compare my state to paradise I'm in the
present and when you could pay you
compare your state to the Hellfire
you're in paradise right now and the man
was so overtaken with that he basically
became Muslim so point being I mean that
that you know there are things in this
world that we're gonna desire no doubt
about it that's how we're created but at
the same time if those desires aren't
kept in check then they can they can be
disastrous and especially disastrous in
the long term meaning what happens after
you die and if you don't keep your
desires in check there are serious
ramifications about for that you know
when you when you meet your Creator I
mean anything good that's a value that
you want to accomplish you want to get a
PhD even a GED you gotta do some
studying absolutely so it requires some
effort some work you mentioned 6-pack
earlier you got to work you gotta put
some effort you can't do this thing on
your own that's why out of the law
God sent this guidance and we talked
about some of the proof and evidences is
there sure and it's there for us now
once we determine this and not by our
own efforts we ask the crater and we're
sincere then he guides us but now we got
to stick to this we got to get to know
knowledge is so important absolutely and
then the tools are there everything we
need to implement and things that we
need to stay away from to become
successful yeah absolutely I mean that I
mean that guidance I mean here's the
thing when you think about you know life
and you think about okay well now I have
all of these challenges and so on and so
forth it doesn't make sense that the
creator of the heavens and earth would
not send you guidance and to tell you
like what you should do and what you
shouldn't do right the Quran mentions
that does he not know what he created I
mean he brought us from a state of
non-existence to a state of existence he
brought you up when you were nothing
right when you were a child and you were
dependent upon your parents and so on
and so forth and now you're this adult
and you're you know you're thinking and
you have this rationale and now you're
you're gonna reject God I mean and then
and then you say well there's nothing
there well no of course not
there's something there there's guidance
that he sends you to in your way you
know right guidance in the form of books
and messengers and for us that's the
Quran and the Prophet Muhammad peace be
upon him tell us you you can't expect
you know I ask people often I say look
you look kind of silly if you were ten
years twelve years old and you're still
in kindergarten you know or if you just
stayed like your whole life and at a
certain level you want to progress
absolutely but you can't progress if
you're you know how important is this if
you're listening to Miley Cyrus all day
you're watching you know all day after
work during work people will sit in
their office the county's got his screen
here watch some daytime nighttime drama
in the car music and you're not climbing
the spiritual ladder you're staying in
that kindergarten you're not training
your mind you're not growing absolutely
absolutely important is this it's very
important I mean and remember I was
talking about the idea of you know the
natural state of the human being the
human being craves spirituality it
craves a connection with its creator
right and but in order to establish that
creation that that that connection with
the Creator there has to be guidance in
order to do that right
and there has to be a struggle to do
that like you mentioned like like we
talked about earlier any endeavor that
you go any endeavor that you that you go
upon you take upon yourself whether it's
to you know get a PhD whether it's to
you know get a six-pack you take some
work you know and I remember one example
or the PERT and where the person said
imagine a sports person they look really
elegant right so a perfect jump shot
right the guy takes it boom it looks
beautiful but what you don't see and
that elegance is the years of hard work
you put into it right it's just like
that would spirituality there's a lot of
work that goes into it when you see
someone spiritual you almost recognize
them there's almost like a light on
their face beautiful I mean this is
really something to think about
I mean most people they try all of these
other superficial things at the end that
void it's absolutely an emptiness is
still there
absolutely recently I was reading an
article multi-billionaire he sold his
company and he's in a you heard of Ibiza
yeah it's like party central or
something right okay and and many of
these people they have all this money
sure and he was talking about how
isolated he felt yeah you know and just
because that void money can't fill that
void absolutely it's an interesting
paradox because it's the more money you
have doesn't necessarily mean you have
happiness or satisfaction you know it's
just contentment that's what it's a real
the real richness is contentment so now
after your journey your story now you
mentioned wrapping up so if the
professor was it I was talking to you
but no he's my manager at that the
couple your manager yeah yeah @dl
summarizing what happened then then well
after that I mean I guess initially when
I when I start speaking to her I was
kind of you know I was I was new I
didn't really know much about you know
religion but I was I kept on criticizing
Christianity to such an extent that I
think I may have kind of rubbed her the
wrong way so you know I mean we're still
on good terms and things like that and
I'm you know I'm still inviting her to
consider Islam and hopefully God willing
that she will consider it and you know
she'll just see what it for what it is
you know the truth so you're now also
tell us about your organization you're
sure so I'm
a part of an organization called the
Islamic education research Academy I era
for short we do a lot of work
specifically to outreach to non-muslims
doua to non-muslims calling people to
the truth you know and from whatever
socioeconomic whatever religious
background or not only this background
that you have we do training in that
regard as well to Muslims we go to
different communities train them how
exactly to call people to the truth call
people to Islam and this is about
sharing if you care for people you want
to share absolutely yeah
how can people get involved if they if
they want to get involved it's I era org
i e are a o RG beautiful thank you so
much for being with us a lot of Deen
show we started with peace so much
alaikum salam' lock the lock and there
you have it someone who went through the
experience at the university through
life and something's missing and then
somehow religion comes up and he went
back to his roots and you know what
islam we talked about provides all of
that evidence and if you look at it you
know it just leaves you with nowhere
else to go but to submit to submit to
the one who created you because this way
of life is clear is rational and for the
one who follows another way possibly not
based on evidence and proof and then you
just follow your lesson desires were you
going to end up where to Miley and where
she ended up Britney where they ended up
just in a state of confusion a state of
loss but get out of the darkness into
the light by asking the owner of life to
make things clear and from there take
some time out to investigate to seek out
the truth because at the end of day
it'll be worth it def is a reality we
know that we're gonna die and at the end
where are we going for the atheists or
the agnostic what do we just fall asleep
and then it's finished it wouldn't make
sense it doesn't make sense so if you
still have any questions call us we have
a number that you can call us and we can
start a healthy dialogue 1 800 662 Islam
pickup from us we'll mail you a free
copy of the Quran read it for yourself
and subscribe if you haven't already and
tune in every week to the Deen show
where we're here
helping to answer some of these who show
questions purpose of life why are you
here here on the D show until next time
peace be with you
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