the dean show peace be unto you welcome
to the dean show thank you for tuning in
this week we have an exciting episode as
always we got a former pastor we got
Pastor copage on The Dean show we're
going to be talking to him his
experiences we're going to talk about
you know there's this hit show out there
it's called preachers of LA you call
them the hustlers of La they're
Hollywood preachers and they're pimp
pimping the Bentley pimping the Ferraris
so we're going to be talking to our
guest Pastor copage here on the dean
show to get his perspective so we can
all benefit from don't go anywhere we're
going to be right back for this exciting
episode of the dean show see you
soon this is the is the
this is
the this is
the this is the
the this is
the this is the D is
the this is
the this is the
D peace be with
you for former
Pastor copich yes and you're on a de
show alhamdulillah you you you saw some
of these clips you see uh you know the
preachers and and the Pastors in La
Hollywood style they got the Bentley's
were you riding cruising of Bentley back
when you were a pastor no I wasn't huh
no I wasn't but I it looks nice but I
wasn't it looks nice I mean everybody
likes nice things there's nothing wrong
with nice things but I called this uh I
mean the uh Hustlers of LA because you
know there's a lot of hustling going on
here people getting ripped off and
people you know doing some things
obviously I I I I have no doubt that
Jesus peace be upon him if he was alive
today one the one who we love we believe
he was one of the mightiest Messengers
that the Creator sent that you know you
now as a Muslim you you understand his
true Mission but would Jesus agree with
a lot of these things that are going on
today no in his name of course not
please tell us why okay because what
what Jesus uh he loved he loves
Simplicity okay and he loved people to
to give to the poor and we never
exploited the poor by taking what they
give to us to to to use for oursel so
you think that's a lot of this is going
on when we see people are actually
giving money and then now now these guys
are taking that money who's supposed to
go back into the community and I'm sure
maybe a small part does but man when you
look at some of these houses these are
like multi-million dollar houses only
200,000 that's strong extravagance isn't
it right so this wouldn't be something
acceptable would it no it wouldn't be no
so tell us you you so you were part of a
non- denominal tell us a little bit
about your um your um congregation okay
I was a non- denominational Pastor okay
of a Church of Christ and it was located
in Chicago and the congregation was a
small congregation maybe 100 to between
100 150 members in the community and I
used to teach uh uh God's Plan of
Salvation and which was to hear God's
word to believe it okay then one must
repent have a change of heart then one
must confess and then one must be
baptized this is what I used to teach
now we're going to look at this clip
right now right here say Lord Jesus Lord
Jesus forgive me for my sins forgive me
for my sins I believe in my heart I
believe in my heart that Jesus Christ
that Jesus Christ died for my sins in
Jesus name in Jesus I'm saved I'm saved
okay so now the clip you saw that was
like is that what we're talking about
used to teach like what he was saying
that okay in Jesus name I I believe in
my heart and that that I Repent to you
everything is about Jesus now Jesus
being God Jesus repenting you repenting
to Jesus is this is what you used to
teach yes it is that's what I used to
teach yeah so now what would you as as a
because obviously now you're a Muslim
one who submits to the will of God and
we believe as Muslims that Jesus was a
Muslim Abraham Moses because they all
submitted to to God what's the
difference now the difference now is
that God does does not have sons okay
and Jesus we wouldn't consider him as a
Son of God we consider him as a prophet
as a messenger and we would we also know
that Jesus taught complete submission to
God's Will and that's Islam now where do
people get this idea where would you say
now as a as a pastor former Pastor you
know you were preaching and teaching a
lot of this this stuff that goes far
away from the true teachings of pure
monotheism worshiping the Creator alone
not his Christian where where where do
people get some of these evidences
from obviously from the Bible but you
know how how do they go so far away from
the true teaching because I mean it
seems quite simple worship the Creator
not his creation but how do you go to
give all of these rights that belong to
the Creator to Jesus now because they
twisted and they Chang the word from
their right places mhm and that's how
they do it yeah so you you got to see
this firsthand yes I got a chance to see
this firsthand give us give us some some
some details like give some some things
that you can El elaborate more on this
okay when it comes down to Presbyterian
churches or I would say a Sanctified
church and you have people that are
speaking in tongues okay of course I was
a non-denominational pastor and we
didn't believe that speaking in tongues
was authorative because in the Bible it
says that if any man speak in an unknown
tongue Let It Be by two or B B by three
and let one interpret if there be no
interpreter then let them keep sighing
in the church but in the Sanctified
Church they teach that a person has the
ability to speak in tongues and they and
by using this theatrics they then
convince the people that they are true
they are right and that you should give
to their
cause now the the more important thing
is that we know that throughout time
obviously the Creator out of his L for
God so loved the world that he sent
prophets and Messengers to guide mankind
that's true but you were at one time
preaching and teaching that for God so
loved the world that he sent his only
begotten son and what is what does that
what does that actually imply now talk
about this that implies that that God
has uh
Sons right now I believe that that would
imply that God has Sons daughters nieces
nephews uncles aunties a beginning a end
a mother and a father but God doesn't
have all of that hold on but someone
says hold on it just says uh his son how
did you get Auntie Uncle cousin kin K
how did you get all that from this
because if I was to believe that God had
a son I had to believe that God had a
daughter as well and and if I believe he
had a daughter I believe that he had a
cousin that he had an uncle that he had
an auntie that he had all these things
and which doesn't really too much make
sense we can't attribute that to God no
in Islam is you cut all that off no
children God is God doesn't have any
children okay God is there's nothing
comparable un to him mhm and God said he
is one the irresist able he begets not
nor is he begotten and there's none
liken unto him that that's pretty
straightforward simple it's the message
that all the messengers of God came so
when you when you examine this verse
that God so loved the world that he sent
his only son whoever believes in him how
does the rest of the verse go that who
believes in will have everlasting life
but can't we say as Muslims that hey I
mean we would qualify more for this
because a if you say believe in Jesus we
it's an Article of Faith to believe that
he was one of the mightiest messengers
of God so we believe in him we do
believe in Jesus it doesn't it doesn't
say anywhere in this verse that now that
you have to believe that he's uh God
incarnate that he's the literal Son of
God that he died for your sins it
doesn't it doesn't even say that in that
verse does it no it doesn't and no one
knows until the the very end on the day
of judgment who's going to have
everlasting good life but whether it's
going to be uh a good life or a bad life
after and and afterlife no one knows
until the till till the day of judgment
I mean the only one who has that
Authority now to give visas to to
Paradise or to Hellfire is the creator
that's correct yeah but the guidelines
obviously are there what qualifies one
obviously what we need to do to achieve
that ultimate reward in the next and
what we have to do to stay away from the
Hellfire that's pretty clear isn't it
that that's that's crystal clear and now
one of the ultimate things that now all
the messengers called people away to
away from and please emphasize that this
is setting up a partner with God we call
in Arabic sh yes and this associating
partner with God because God doesn't
have any Partners yeah he's one he is
the creator everything else is created
mhm so when we come back I want to ask
you we talked about these La preachers
uh the Hollywood uh preachers and can
you can you relate to that is that kind
of like the style that you were you were
um nowhere near that no nowhere near
that nowhere near that because in
non-denominational
Christianity all of that is looked down
upon as far as people who trick the
hearts and the minds of men in order to
have personal gain mhm How about if
someone says look you you you um changed
uh or you went in another Direction now
you didn't have the Holy Ghost you
weren't filled of the Holy Spirit what
would you say to that I would ask him to
the family what the Holy Ghost is uhuh
and has someone defined that to you no
they haven't been able to do that yet no
okay we're going to be right back with
more with former Pastor copich here on
the dean show right back
so say he Allah is one God is
one the maker of mankind exactly Allah
Allah is self-sufficient he doesn't need
food or drink he doesn't need to rest on
the seventh day okay I really had a
problem with that even before I knew
anything about Islam God resting sounds
like a weak god um he begets not he
doesn't have any children nor is he a
child or born of anything or
anyone and there is nothing coal or
comparable unto him at all nobody
nothing we can imagine nobody nobody's
comparable to the creater nothing yeah
and that right there was in its Essence
what I believe
naturally back here on the dean show
with former Pastor copich now tell us a
little bit more about you um because
it's really unique you know people hear
so many negative things things nowadays
through the media about Islam and now
they see hold on what's going on why
would this guy you know who's a who's a
Christian why would he accept
Islam I accepted Islam because um when
at the end of my uh pastorship as a
Christian
Pastor well take it I knew that when I
first was studying to be a pastor that I
wanted to live a life of righteousness I
wanted to live for God okay no matter
where it was going to be so if it wasn't
with Christianity I knew it would be
with another religion and so I knew this
so at the end of my pastorship when I
was forced to resign okay I did some
soul searching and then I I read some
books and I read some books one was um
called
um it was called message to the black
man by Elijah Muhammad that was the
first book that I read on Islam and so I
took this book to the Masid they told me
that has some truths in it but it's
really not the truth about Islam and if
you want to learn we're going to teach
you and so then uh the the M they taught
me what Islam was about and they gave me
some books by a brother named Ahmed
didat and when I read his books the
first book I read was crucifixion or
crucifixion and it was Spar crucifixion
with an X or crucifixion like fiction
and non-fiction and this particular book
it convinces one
with the Bible that the crucifixion
didn't really take place in the way the
Bible is said M and so then I had to go
further and I said this is really
interesting okay this must be the truth
and so then I I I I I went and searched
a little bit further mhm and and then
what happened and then what happened was
I was convinced that Islam was the way
of life because it was more it it was
more structured it told me how to eat it
told me how to sleep it Tau me how to
walk it Tau me how to talk and and it
Tau me how to do everything it didn't
leave no no stone unturned and so these
things were very easy for me to
understand and the one part that really
convinced me is when I read about the
creation of the baby in the womb of the
mother who's pregnant and it goes very
detailed about how the the the the the
baby has formed in the womb now this
was, 1400 years ago
medical science is not really it just
recently found this out and when I read
that I knew that this was the truth you
said also in speaking before that you
actually when someone starts to give you
references from the Bible where it says
that and they try to substantiate this
claim that Jesus was actually the
literal Son of God that he was one with
God so they say that okay Jesus said
that I and the father are one no one
comes to the father except through me um
they say that in the beginning was the
word the word was with God and the the
um word became flesh so there's other um
verses that people will use and say look
you know you're actually wrong uh Pastor
copich or former Pastor copich no you
got to come back to Christianity because
you didn't see these verses what would
you say the first thing I would first
thing I say to them is that the Bible
was not revealed in English and that
whenever you read something in a
language other than what's Reeve
revealed you relying upon the
translators okay and the things that you
say that the Bible said in English Jesus
himself he never said and when we go
back to the originals to the Hebrew and
to the Greek we find out that the words
have been changed to the point that if
you go on the Old Testament Hebrews okay
in the Song of Solomon it says in the
English Okay so lovely is he and if you
look at the the the Hebrew is uses the
word
Muhammad okay so the prophet Muhammad
was mentioned by name in in the Hebrew
Old Testament but they translated names
just like they translated Peter in the
New Testament as The Rock so this is
what happened so you have a lot of mist
transation you have actually a lot of
addition I mean we'll go to a clip right
now this is like one of the top Bi Bible
scholars in the world today he used to
also be a former Christian and again we
we never want to you know um belittle
anybody or disparage on anybody it's
really just trying to get people to
think think out the box and that's what
you did so we're going to go to this
clip real quick and this is what this
Bible scholar has to say about the Bible
today for a long time I thought that the
Bible was inspired and inherent that
there were no mistakes in the Bible but
as I engaged in historical research on
the Bible as I was getting my PhD in New
Testament studies at Princeton
Theological Seminary I started finding
mistakes in the Bible and uh this this
cut away at my assumptions that the
Bible was inherent and then I started
questioning other parts of my faith is
Jesus really Divine uh is really a
trinity so
now in contrast to the Quran we know the
Quran we have in its original tamper
free tamper proof it's one of the living
Miracles but here when people see this
you know this is a scholar of
Christianity of the Bible he said we
don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of
any
original Bible or anything close of that
did you know that at that time when you
were a pastor at first I didn't but
later I found out that we didn't have
the original of the Bible mhm and we had
and we relied upon that that what we had
and that that's what I was convinced to
believe that what we have was all we can
work with and that was God's that was
his choice to give it give that to us
but there's there's also another verse
that people use when you bring this up
that whoever changes anything that the
wrath of God will be upon them yeah
that's Revelation 22: 18 and verse 19
for this is uh when God when John was
banished the idland of Patmos he
revealed this he said for if I testify
to any man if he add unto the words of
the book of this prophecy I shall add
him the plagues that are written in this
book for If any man shall take away from
the words of the book of this prophecy I
shall take his name out of the book of
life out of the holy city and out of the
things that are written therein so what
do you say when someone uses this as
they say they use this as a evidence
that the Bible hasn't been
changed okay basically this was this
scripture was
by the non- denominational Christians to
say that you couldn't add to the worship
or take away from the worship service as
pertain to God because what what the the
different denominational churches do
they add things into the worship service
that was not originally a part of what
the Bible said so this is what the
scripture was used for I mean and do you
think like a lot of these pastors like
these La preachers now do you think many
of them capitalize on the people's
ignorance now because it's like a
Feelgood philosophy you come into the
church it's like a discotech a nightclub
and again we're not trying to just put
you know um disparage or on anybody but
think at the box now everybody's dancing
and what your thoughts on this party
it's it's it's theatrics uhhuh okay it's
entertainment it's a show okay and
people want to be entertained they will
pay to be
entertained the the entertainment
industry makes billions of dollars every
year because people thrive off
entertainment but now I mean again
you're playing with the way of life
that's not supposed to be played with
true this is the truth you know that's
sent down from the crater through all
the messengers and we're not to be
tampering with it taking it to a
nightclub and doing all these other
things no if it's the truth you have to
protect it and save it and not just
modify it to fit your people's desires
right that's true yeah so we got some
more you going to stick around for some
more yes we're going to go take a break
all right and God willing we'll be right
back to talk to former Pastor copage
here on the dean show the Quran and then
the Sunnah of the Prophet wasallam the
fact that you have an application so you
have you know the beauty of Islam is
that not only is our text our scripture
preserved so flawlessly but the
interpretation of the scripture is
preserved so flawlessly which is the
prophet sallallah 's example the prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him as may Allah
be pleased with her explained you know
uh explained he was a walking Quran
which is so if I can't understand this
word I can just go to the prophet s
alam's life and I can I can see even the
Sunnah has been preserved flawlessly
alhamdulillah makes grow then everybody
watch show
are
ready
is there is something
sitan back here on the dean show and
we're trying to get people to think out
the box right yep so let's uh give a a
live visual here we have the Catholic
Bible and this one is 66 yes so this is
the King James so now you have this book
the revised Standard Version this is
1952 and when we open it up we see that
they tell us that these are like 32
Scholars of the highest Eminence you
know backed by 50 cooperating
denominations like the highest Church
they say that the King James version has
Graves defects so many so serious as to
call for a revision so we we we did you
know that the King James version now
this one is thrown thrown out they've
thrown out what was in this Bible and in
the King James version there's grave
defects so many so serious that now
there's like some some trouble here I
mean did you know they speaking about
they no they speaking about English
uh-huh and and the King James Bible was
written in 1611 yeah and they speaking
about English and they speaking about
another English Bible the revised
Standard Version and none of God's
Messengers spoke English no so what are
they talking
about so H how do how do you how did you
make sense of this all now that now what
was
this transition that you made did you
did you was this like a stepping stone
that you know you used to come to Islam
how how did you because you you
obviously started studying and finding
all these things out how did you end up
Christianity was used as a stepping
stone to Islam most definitely was not a
stumbling block uh because everything
that I've learned as far as being Muslim
in the Quran it verifies some of the
things that I've learned in Christianity
okay and it's it it's more similarities
than differences yeah and the ones that
are true Muslims who are sincerely
seeking to serve Allah and the ones who
are sincerely from the best of our
ability as far as knowing that they
striving to be a good Christians they
are they're they're close to one another
mhm okay and Allah he tells us that the
Christians are closest I mean to to to
Muslims yeah and that's why I mean
that's why it's out of this love that we
have for you know our brothers in
humanity that we want to bring these
things to light showing people that
Jesus peace be upon them we love him you
can go to to the help people don't know
that if you obviously if you don't
believe in Jesus because it's one of the
Articles of Faith to Believe In The
Messengers Jesus being one of those
Messengers so as a Muslim if you don't
believe in Jesus in all the Messengers
reject one reject them all you you
that's the one way took it to the
Hellfire is that not that's true yeah so
we love Jesus do we do we love Jesus so
do you we love him in the best sense yes
because we love in the message that he
taught in the true sense and none of the
things that they may have changed as far
as the Bible is concerned to say that he
said this and we know that he didn't say
that because even in the Quran Allah he
tells us that he's going to on y he's
going to question he's going to ask as
Jesus did he say this or did he say that
not because Allah doesn't know but
because he's going to profess this in
front of the people he's going to ask
did you say that you was a Son of God
did did you did you tell them to worship
you and Jesus is going to say I never
said such things so this is like an
event now that's going to happen in the
future that on the day of judgment God
is going to ask did you say to the
people to take me and my mother's Gods
next to God he says no way no I never
said that no way no way
Jose say Jose but you know there's no
way he called people to worship my Lord
and your God right right and that's in
the Lord's Prayer isn't it yes worship
my father who are in heaven it's a it it
it it says that in in the in the Lord's
Prayer but even though we don't call
Allah Our Father yeah some Scholars say
that you know because there's such a
similarity between uh in Arabic it's AB
father and Lord is R so they also could
IM this up oh my Lord who who are in
heaven Hallowed be thy name and there's
no problem with this is a a great prayer
for would you say a Christian to start
if he's because you see Christians many
people praying through Jesus why don't
they stick with this prayer you know and
not bring a middleman in the middle this
could be a start for God facilitating a
way of guidance right most definitely
yeah because go ahead this let's let's
talk about this briefly this Lord's
Prayer it says it's it's all praise to
the to the one Creator it's all praise
to God to God if you call upon God
asking for guidance definitely he'll
facilitate a way is that right yes
that's true yeah did you make this
prayer a
lot no no I didn't make that prayer a
lot and non-denominational Christianity
is quite different than not
denominational Christianity and a lot of
things that we see today it's like non
non- denominational Christianity is is
in the back is you you can't see what's
going on what do you mean
meaning that is hidden from the populace
it's hidden from the people because the
smallest churches the smallest
congregations are the Churches of Christ
the only church name that's mentioned in
the Bible is Church of Christ mhm
there's no other name that's mentioned
Presbyterian uh such and such and so and
so Church these names are not mentioned
in the bible yeah okay and so um the
non-denominational Christianity is very
small but the denominational
Christianity is very big and has the
most followers and produces the the most
confusion among the people yeah so what
was it finally that had you accept this
way of life that obviously Jesus was
Upon Jesus submitted not to himself not
to anything in creation he submitted to
the will of God that's Islam one word
sums it all up so what finally had you
accept Islam what finally had me accept
Islam is after I studied
with um Imam Ibrahim okay and this was
at MOS Umar on the south side of Chicago
and after he gave me the book on
crucifixion or
crucifixion it really solidified my
understanding that this was the way of
God this was the this was the right way
because everything that the Christian
faith stands upon is based upon the
crucifixion everything without the cruci
CR fiction Christianity won't exist m
without everything that's attached to
him dying upon the cross for our sins
without that Christianity won't exist so
once I was shown from this particular
book that the crucifixion didn't happen
in the way that they say it happened
with the evidence from the Bible itself
it it made me understand and believe
that Islam is a complete way of life and
this is what I chose to to believe in
and to accept and to adopt into my life
how about this uh concept also of
someone dying for your sins you
mentioned that you really weren't even
convinced of this as a pastor is that
right as a pastor I didn't believe that
Jesus Christ died for my sins cuz in one
place it says that and another place it
says that every man must bear his own
burden and these two things seem like
they was contradictory because if you
going to if every man must bear his own
his Bears his own burden then how could
one man
bear the burden of all yeah so you have
a confli you have a contradiction there
right and and in Islam the way of life
that you know all the messengers taught
and brought personal accountability God
is the most loving you turn to the most
loving God and you repent sincerely and
he forgives all sins right and all and
in Islam as well every man must bear his
own burden yeah that makes sense so
alhamdulillah you're you're thank you
for being with us we got to go we're out
of time at the heavens and earth reward
you we started with peace we end with
peace peace be with you alikum and thank
you for tuning in to another episode of
the dean show some of these things we
bring to light to really have you think
out of the box now let me give you an
example imagine someone bought you
something real simple like a cup of
coffee and everyone was pointing to you
wonder where this cup of coffee is
coming to from and everyone's pointing
to the to the gentleman over there but
now that person instead of thinking you
you know he just look past you
and didn't even sign didn't even smile
you know you would really think what
a a not so nice person I was going to
say arrogant but what a not so nice
person but that's just a cup of coffee
what about the one who gave you the
ability to taste this coffee the one who
gave you the taste buds with the over
100 taste
cells so I mean do we really Ponder and
think for all the blessings that the
maker of mankind has given us and and
what better way to thank him than
acknowledging him and his favors upon us
and thanking him directly and alone and
that was the message that all of the
messengers including Jesus he called
people to only worship the Creator to
give all praise and thanks to the
Creator not to himself not to put him as
a
middleman next to God make him one in
three in a trinity no he called people
to worship only God and so did the last
and final messenger sent to mankind who
was the brother to Jesus Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him and Moses and
Abraham and all the other countless
Messengers that the Creator sent to out
of his love to guide Humanity so if
you're one of our
Christian Brothers who are tuning in
Brothers in humanity why don't you start
with this simple prayer that's in the
Bible it's the Lord's Prayer calling
upon the one maker
Oh Our Lord Who Art in Heaven oh my
Creator who are in heaven Hallowed be
thy
name thy kingdom come meaning that
you're the owner of everything that
exists that all praise is to you you're
glorifying God that is a commonality
between us that we can build on and if
you thank your Creator and you ask him
the same way that Jesus was teaching you
in the Bible Jesus never taught you to
put him in the middle and go through him
no straight to God direct dialup and
that makes
sense that makes sense try that if
there's any other things that you'd like
to have us cover here on the dean show
also you can follow us on the Facebook
Twitter give us your suggestions how
many topics that you'd like to see us
cover and I hope that this show has had
you think out of the box and hopefully
is of some benefit and we hope to see
you again next time until then peace be
unto you