okay so people can go research this uh
on their own Salah in a the Conqueror of
Jerusalem also known as Saladin so I I'm
actually a human rights Professor who
starts almost all my human rights
courses depicting images and stories of
the Holocaust Jews also who are praising
you for the work you're doing speaking
out against the uh
injustices and we speak about the
Injustice of the Holocaust and
injustices such as anti-Semitism as no
different as injustices of islamophobia
encountered here in America for
centuries under Islamic rule Jerusalem
was a place of Freedom a freedom of
worship going to Jerusalem and next
thing you know you guys are in a dungeon
somewhere absolutely so and they also
helped to preserve peace in the Middle
East for many years we know there are
many benefits to the use of black seed
that's why I used the black seed by tesn
and 50% of the prophets from your order
will go towards establishing the dean
Center the Masjid and mega dawa Center
use promo code the dean show 15% off
before I get into the future current day
I'm going to just remind you that there
was a point in time in history where
Christian Jewish Muslim under Muslim
rule you can go to Jerusalem and not
have to get worried about taking a trip
and then getting thrown into a dungeon
and having your property taken away
unjustly like what we're going to be
talking about here just incredible this
is mind-blowing you have a professor of
Human Rights and his research assistant
they're here on the dean show to relay
them visiting this city what city I'm
talking about when ruled by Muslims you
had justice established you had the
three religions living there in a
relative peace and you didn't have
things like this what we're going to be
talking about happening with my next two
guests here on the dean
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show life of a traveler
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professor H and is a research assistant
how are you asalam alaykum a pleasure to
be here dear brother thank you uh for
having the time coming on to share your
story now I opened it up talking about
is this true there was a time in history
when you can go to
Jerusalem be it the Christian Jew and
you didn't have all this chaos that's
happening all the oppression is this
confirmed history absolutely for
centuries under Islamic rule Jerusalem
was a place of Freedom a freedom of
worship Jews Christians Muslims living
side by side and now uh the experience
is quite different just going to the al-
AA Masjid is a huge hardship um truly a
different world okay so people can go
research this uh on their own Salah Hood
in a the Conqueror of Jerusalem also
known as Saladin he is best known for
his role in the Third Crusade when he
led the Muslim forces to victory over
the Crusaders and recaptured Jerusalem
in 1187 and they also helped to preserve
peace in the Middle East for many years
that's not going to be uh really what
we're going to be talking about but I
open that up because now it's one thing
us talking about people getting detained
imprisoned oppressed and tortured but
you guys are two living live examples
got a Canadian citizen American citizen
going to Jerusalem and next thing you
know you guys are in a dungeon somewhere
absolutely so yeah we work can we can we
describe it as a dungeon absolutely was
that's an exact description in one word
of the experience that we endured MH
absolutely okay I mean were you guys
doing something illegal I mean why are
you guys in a dungeon so we were
conducting research on the occupation we
were uh embedded with youth activists
that we encountered at ala Masid I was
there for the year uh my research
assistant by my side and the thing that
we did that was uh of great concern to
Israeli forces was that we called out
for the liberation of Palestine and we
put it on video we were organizing youth
to engage in peaceful protests to undo
not violent absolutely
peaceful following the tradition of
those who spoke out at Square in 2011
who came out on mass and spent days
protesting the autocracy in Egypt what
was there there there was something
similar it was um at the fence at the
border this was years ago and you had um
doctors you had people in wheelchairs
you had I mean just everyone coming out
what was that called it was called uh
there was another name for it was a
protest that happened by the by the
board by the fence and then they were
getting they were being sniped and being
attacked and uh they were speaking out
this very peaceful peaceful protest and
many people were killed uh many of the
officers at the border uh uh killed and
made you remember the name of it I I
don't recall the the name of the protest
but yeah and it was very very well
covered in in Gaza absolutely and many
many protests just like that protest has
have been completely stifled and
squelched by authorities one of the
things they're extremely worried about
is their media image for the world to
recognize the way the ways in which they
treat Palestinians and so it's a one of
the more fundamental priorities of
security forces to make sure that
Palestinians are not treated with
sympathy in global media what was it was
that your first time there visiting it
was my second time visiting it was
brother khaled's first time was my first
time visit so how was day-to-day life
when you get there uh as soon as you get
there what's this feeling on the ground
the experience that you had just before
you get thrown in the dungeon what was
it like well actually it was uh to me it
was an incredible experience there's
obviously the first moments where you
come in and you're just you know the the
the star-filled uh Glory of Jerusalem it
just is such a comforting experience
praying in Al AA and feeling that
peaceful moment after praying two raas
is just Priceless and um even though you
begin afterwards to start to see the
frightful torture of a people who are
just trying to live but their dreams are
being squashed day after day and so you
see the forces the checkpoints the I I
mean just trying to go to Jerusalem we
were in a car with uh one of our friends
and they just stopped the car
and they didn't like how we how we
looked I guess they just ripped me out
from the back seat and started beating
me up and that's definitely not an
experience I've had hold on hold on so
repeat that this is like some people
didn't get it I mean hold on why would
someone okay you're driving minding your
own business you weren't breaking any
laws were you absolutely not speeding
even if you speed no actually we were in
traffic so we're we're just all in in
just just random well
I mean it's presented as though it might
be random but obviously it's not there's
constant ethnic profiling of uh of Arabs
and Palestinians and you know we're
dressed in in in ways that are easily
identifiable as Muslims um and so this
particular woman who is uh you know part
a woman yeah who she identified us asked
us to uh questions and then she called
Israeli forces to come to the site so
she didn't do it herself then the men
came they spotted us and and they ripped
me out of the back seat where I was
seated and behind or between two cars in
the parking lot they beat me pushed me
down to the ground in a humiliating
fashion and uh completely searched the
car inside out afterwards releasing us
back into the car nothing no charges and
we were back in the car within you know
some 20 minutes um and and and you
andran were just waiting as they were
beating me between the cars yeah they
also got me out of the car as well and
they bashed me towards another car and I
raised my hand like this and I stayed
until they got done with Dr Hassan mhm
was a little treat wow by then and these
things happen a great deal like even in
ALA we on one of those days like the
where uh there are occupiers who enter
the The Enclave of the Masjid uh I was I
was beaten as we were protesting with
other Palestinians within the Masjid
because constantly there are there are
occupiers who enter the mid sometimes on
a daily basis and huge numbers on
religious Jewish religious Hol while
this is happening what are you doing
what are you what are you saying what
are you what do you do we we what we do
is we just congregate together as the
forces escort these occupiers through
the Ala Masjid and we declare and praise
Allah subhana wa ta'ala um and we we ask
we also might shout leave this is not
your land or this is not your I'm talk
when they pull you out of the car and
now the they're beating you what are you
saying like you have no idea what
they're doing this what do you do what
are you saying what are you I I I what's
going through your head I'm I'm praying
to Allah subhana tala and I'm asking
Allah t for support I'm also questioning
them I'm telling them that this is truly
unjust what you're doing here is exactly
why this occupation is completely unjust
and I tried to engage in a conversation
with the police one they brought one guy
who uh speaks Arabic uh and uh he would
he said like shut up uh they just
couldn't tolerate hearing me repeatedly
point out what are we doing this is
completely unjust um and so you're
pretty much yelling Injustice exactly
exactly um and and you could see that
it's aggravating the human being
for some reason our conscience still is
gnawing at us that even the biggest
oppressors can't withstand hearing from
someone who clearly is being oppressed
the word that they are the oppressor
yeah um so this this was also an
extraordinary finding for us in our
research that that speaking out doesn't
just help other people to to to sort of
Garner sympathy for those who are
oppressed it's also for the oppressed to
know that we see them as a source of our
oppression and that they're occupiers
they don't perceive themselves as
occupiers they could perceive themselves
as on the side of justice that they are
victims who then destroy the lives of
Palestinians including ourselves for
doing no nothing just being in our car
and being singled out because of how we
look or the way in which we pray and
worship now the how would you answer
this have you uh with your students your
professor the University uh you probably
have some Jewish students some people
now they fall for the programming saying
that okay and how do you address this
that okay there you you guys want to
eliminate Jews you hate Jews you're
anti-semitic etc etc I mean what do you
say to that so I I'm actually a human
rights Professor who starts almost all
my human rights courses depicting images
and stories of the Holocaust human
rights history can be recounted as
beginning with the Holocaust in which
millions of people were killed for no
reason but for their religious belief
and that human rights stands for the
principle that the sovereignty of a
Nation should never extend to killing
people for no reason as uh what took
place in the Holocaust and it's because
of my Jewish mentors when I grew up who
motivated me to go into human rights
they are the same people who cheer me
when I speak out against the occupation
I teach Global islamophobia and in that
course we have uh Jewish Americans and
we speak about the Injustice of the
Holocaust and injustices such as anti
anti-Semitism as no different as
injustices of islamophobia encountered
here in America as well as in Palestine
and I bring to our class really
fascinating Global islamophobia a
holocaust Survivor she just recently
passed away her name was Dora 96 years
of age she passed away she would come
she has repeatedly been part of the
instruction of the course and even
though she was experiencing many
disabilities she came to our uh to our
course uh basically a semester before
she passed passed away despite all the
hardship to speak out and these are
people who are supportive of us and who
come to press conferences speaking out
against genocide and so we believe that
the work we're doing is also spreading
the message that anti-Semitism is wrong
but then if anti-Semitism is wrong it's
no different than the mass islamophobia
that we see in this land of occupation
why should a people like the
Palestinians have their land revoked
from them and have not the possibility
of their dreams constantly being taken
away and ripped away from their lives
because they're subject to arrest and
attack and being singled out at
checkpoints that isn't the life that
people including Jewish Americans have
fought for in the civil rights movement
and in fighting against the Holocaust
this an important point so you had
Jewish mentors who helped to motivate
you to get into human rights and who are
now praising you for speaking out their
Jews also who are praising you for the
work you're doing speaking out against
the uh
injustices uh what's happening on the
ground in Jerusalem in Palestine
absolutely my doctoral supervisor when I
did my PhD Jewish American and uh I have
mentors at at the University where I
taught Jewish Americans and as I grew up
I was taught by creative educators of
with a Jewish background who are
constantly being supportive as you
mentioned speaking out against this
occupation in fact my doctoral
supervisor has suggested that the very
existence of the state and how it's
organized is completely unjust so she
she this was before she's Jewish also
she's Jewish um and this was before the
attacks in Gazza against Palestinians
and so people who look at Human Rights
and the history of Human Rights it's
undeniable when you look at events on
the ground yeah you have all the human
rights organizations also it's across
the board isn't it absolutely they
calling this atiz state illegal
occupation absolutely and and people who
have been conducting scholarship like
Norman finlin and nor Chomsky who are
very familiar about the laws and uh what
has been happening on the ground for
decades there's no question in their
mind that the reason why these attacks
continue is because of a media charade
that this is just a democratic State
innocent victimless it it
is doing no wrong in fact it's
committing some of the most heinous
human rights violations on the planet
and one of the last Nations to persist
in its colonialism as most of the
countries of the world have effectively
enabled their their colonized Nations to
declare independence yeah how about
Palestine before we get uh more into the
dungeon descriptions of the dungeon and
what happened in the dungeon with both
of you just tell me uh this is very
interesting most people don't know this
because uh they cover that many of these
politicians over there they're not even
semetic they you're actually semetic you
guys are both semetic I mean
Palestinians are citic absolutely so
they're being anti-semitic coming from
Europe they have last names gski josi
Polish names they're European actually
absolutely absolutely they're is this
true they're hiding under this citic now
label but they're not even semetic the
majority who are coming and stealing the
land they're European yeah many many of
them have come from Europe
absolutely absolutely absolutely yes and
and and that's absolutely true many
people have come and they migrated to
Palestine Open Arms Palestinians
welcomed them and after absolutely
welcomed them because they were fleeing
persecution uh Jewish Jews have been uh
pursued and attacked throughout Europe
for centuries and so they found refuge
in Palestine only for Palestinians to be
met by betrayal uh and so that that is
truly disturbing and the the real the
real point is cannot folks who already
live there have a home a home that they
can feel secure that forces are not just
showing up one day in front of them
taking their 13-year-old child and to no
end not knowing what is happening to
them they're being tortured they're
being attacked and many many many
worries and uncertainties just living in
Palestine all right so tell us now what
happens okay so Canadian citizen
American citizen you go down there human
professor of Human Rights you get down
there you're there for some time and all
of a sudden you end up in a dungeon
absolutely in a prison how and what
happened then yeah so I I was heading
towards uh the al- AA me the primary
site of my research on December first
and uh there was a call by Israeli
forces uh the the government of Israel
to capture my research assistant and
myself um as I was walking and heading
towards Al AA Masid one of the the
officers because every gate of ala has
Israeli forces one of the officers at
one of the
gates uh immediately spotted me coming
down walked rushed towards me and was
scrolling through his phone I I could
see my picture and then
began a chapter unimaginable of research
um an
ethnography from Hell effectively
I was handcuffed on my hands and on my
feet the the cuff sort of coiling into
my skin my nerves burning I was stripped
naked paraded through the old city
thrown into a van blindfolded when I
arrived in process they stripped you
down in public well in front in front of
the officers yeah uh they took me to a
location that all various officers were
and all of them were looking at me uh
they've asked me to strip completely and
uh and then they walked me they paraded
me through the old city threw me into a
van um as they were putting pressure on
the handcuffs sort of applying a lot of
pain on my nerves and then took me to
the infamous mccoa prison which is a
prison where many Palestines have been
taken where they have different levels
of um interrogation they took me to the
highest level of security in the
basement of Al masua and their
windowless solitary confinement in a
whole uh imprison you know two huge
metallic doors to keep me in uh we began
our journey I was alone in the beginning
we sometimes overlapped and for 12 days
we also engaged in a hunger strike and
brother khed could also talk about being
sent to asalan in order for them to
learn more about why we were in
Palestine and who were we so yeah they
uh sent me to a fake prison like a
theater where everyone is acting as if
he is a
Palestinian and you know you feel like
you are
in like at home within your family
members everyone is acting nice everyone
is uh is acting like he loves you and he
likes you and brings food to you and
brings a lot of things to you and like I
felt
very like uh I had like intimate
relationships um with all of them and
they were trying to trick
me to say about uh Dr Hassan so at one
point he said uh she KH they were call
me a Khal in the prison just you know to
give me like even an extra step to feel
more comfortable like they are giving me
here say she khed can you give us um
kind of a lecture about what are the
ideas uh strategic ideas of Dr Hassan
for liberating Palestine we want to
learn more and we really love the ideas
and uh said yes why why not so and I
they used also to push me to lead the
prayer and uh Sometimes they used to
bring bring me food to the place where I
I was like and it was
like it's it was a traumatizing
experience actually like I was so naive
like how did you find out this is fake
this is the when after like uh 34 days
of um faking everything around me they
took me back to the mobia prison in
Jerusalem that was in asalan asalan is
near Gaza he took me back and and he
told me explicitly you were in a
intelligent
uh like you are in a fake prison and the
the they told you yeah they told me that
the the the person who was talking to me
is an intelligence officer so basically
I was talking to an intelligence officer
and oh I I I really I can't tell you how
traumatizing the experience was mhm I
can't really
emphasize so what happens dayto day when
you guys are there how you end up doing
a hunger strike are you beaten are you
you're already talking about you know
the the pain is starting to begin did it
intensify what what was the day-to-day
yeah the day the day-to-day was a
constant interrogation sleep deprivation
being handcuffed to a chair u in a
vulnerable position with threats like up
to seven people coming you know at one
time questioning you shouting attacks uh
threatening that I'm going to stay and
live you know in prison for the rest of
my life that they have that capacity
that the uh
our our governments didn't care about us
they don't they know that we're here and
they they just uh have no interest in
learning more about us uh a lot of Inu
window that they might uh engage in even
further attacks the what we understand
is a lot of the youth that we were
working with were also imprisoned like
they would point out you know through
the wall uh this you know brother amran
is here Sheik Sami is here and we
learned that a lot of the youth were
beaten uh and so they they're willing to
do that they also put us in in in brown
clothing uh which is meant to be
emblematic of of being impr prison which
was kind of peculiar they stripped our
clothing and myal and put on this brown
clothing that implies that you are
actually a resistance
fighter um and so they had they had
designated color you know for clothing
Orange was if you were there because you
violated the law Brown was if you were a
resistance fighter against the
occupation and so we're dressed in this
brown clothing being sent and they
played pretend Justice with us so we
would takeen to a a judge uh at first it
was like high security uh sort of
handcuffed on my feet sent in a single
van waiting uh put you know my face
against the wall until I could speak to
the judge for a few seconds and then
scurried back to prison and then later
uh it we were all sent to the van with
other prisoners and I would start
delivering speeches to the judge telling
him how could you how could this persist
that this being in this very court is a
violation of Human Rights and that many
Jewish Americans uh that I knew and I
would say that because I was raised on
the Holocaust uh I pointed out would
find this deplorable uh and and people
in the court would just stare
to the point where for some odd reason
at the very end even though it wasn't
necessary the judge brought me after the
decision was made for my deportation and
I was told by that we were now going to
head back which by the way was itself a
whole story of how the process of us
heading back but we we I was uh the
judge made a point of bringing me before
and saying okay now I have authorized
your deportation it seemed he his
conscience was somehow impacted by the
speeches and he wanted me to say that
what happened was was just one of the
things by the way that I feel a lot of
folks don't realize is that you know
many people ask you know Dr Hassen how
could you speak
out it's kind of stupid like you called
for Liberation and then the question
that we ask today is the real question
is how can you
not if no one speaks then no one will
know and even Jews living in Palestine
they themselves don't know the extent of
the suffering and the torture and so we
have great opportunities to speak out
our tradition starts off with stories of
only basically the message is to speak
and and so from the words of that we
know being dragged through the streets
of of the scorching heat of Mecca that
we heard and all the people in Mecca
heard the words right of
bil all that the prophets and theaba the
companions may Allah be pleased with
them did was to speak a word of truth
and that's why we were there to speak
the truth absolutely with no regard to
consequence because if someone a Muslim
sees these acts and doesn't speak
out then who
will and despite all of the worries and
fears that the youth counseled us about
and despite all that people say that how
ridiculous it is for people to call for
The Liberation openly here we
are in front of you dear brother
speaking the truth because Allah sent us
back and this was one of the
extraordinary things that well we were
going uh through the prison
system we met uh one of the people who
we knew well in ALA uh brother Farris he
he asked me a question he said what
would you do if you go back to America
and I said we would speak out absolutely
who asked you that uh one of the youth
that we work with that was also being
imprisoned with us uh and he we met him
while you're being processed to be to
appear before the court you're yeah your
these mock trials we would be caged with
other Palestinians and he looked at me
and said what would you
do in Arabic if you went back to America
and I said we would speak out and one of
the most extraordinary things
appeared in his response he had this
huge
smile in the midst of his
torture what gave him pleasure was the
fact that I would be here with you right
now on the dean show speaking out and
telling the world our experience and the
injustices that they suffer because they
believe very few know about the fact
that people are shouting now in the
occupation that is
underground in the jails that
proliferate
Palestine uh tell me this so you finally
you you had you mentioned that
the people who are even there who are
like 20 minutes away from all this
oppression are you saying that most of
them they don't know really to the what
extent their neighbors are being
oppressed absolutely yeah absolutely and
that was one I've heard some Israelis
also who speak out against this they're
Al They also saying a lot of information
is kept from them and they're over here
you know whining and dining and just
having a great time and they're just
programmed like these people they just
want to eradicate us exactly
absolutely the government is structured
and the society is structured by
containing the information and having a
segregated realm for Jews and a
segregated realm for Palestinians the
occupation thrives on segregation and
that's what one of the reasons why we
wanted to deliver protests that were
peaceful to let Jews living in the land
be aware by sharing our stories together
of the oppression and suffering that we
are facing in Palestine so was not just
only for the world or for Americans or
for Europe it's for people who live in
Jerusalem who don't know and who think
of the Palestinian as one step away from
eradicating them exactly as you by the
way described MH and through fear of
Palestinians that segregation is
maintained uh one second I'm trying to
uh find something I wanted to show you
we you can call it the Palestinian
phobia instead of islamophobia
absolutely palestino phobia and that's a
a true uh experience that every day
people are suffering the the reality of
these attacks on
Palestinians includes the attack of
Silence the fact that they can't speak
they can't declare the injustices that
they suffer because the authorities keep
stifling their opportunities to to share
to the world or to other Jews the
experiences that they endure every day
so that's a reality and and so the
occupation is not just about the overt
things that authorities commit on a
daily basis it's also of the covert
silence yes that they engage in so
absolutely Eddie that's a huge part of
the reality of the occupation and the
the prisons uh are one of the most
extraordinary Technologies to enable the
Persistence of this silence because no
one knows of the shouting of the torture
of the attacks behind the bars of the
jails in the underground
mhm and so that this silence is uh a
real part of of the
occupation uh one one story that I think
is it many might want to hear is that
many of these youth are presented with a
with a life of uncertainty people go
through these Cycles at the time they
turn 13 the Israeli forces come to their
door and it's preemptive like they don't
do anything they're just trying to train
Palestinians to recognize that you could
be imprisoned any time and they grab
Palestinians sometimes randomly at
different times and so it someone might
be getting married someone might just
have a child and then suddenly they find
themselves in prison and they don't know
when they're going to be released and so
this is a measure of the occupation
making sure that no one speaks out that
there's no opportunities for
Palestinians to share their story is a
vital part and it's truly part of the
wisdom of the Prophet Alam to speak out
so these are kids before we conclude now
so these are kids yes that are taken at
such a young age thrown in jail yes in
the D also like you were and they just
don't know their parents have no rights
or way to get them out absolutely
absolutely and and it becomes just part
of life like you begin to try to find
ways but it's unknowable to prevent
yourself from getting imprisoned but
also you have the pressure that you have
to make ends meet you have to go out and
work you have to go into a car school as
well yeah and people still that's one of
the most uh indomitable features of the
Palestinian people they still have all
these dreams but the dreams themselves
are part of the brutality of the
occupation because you get the dream to
go to school and to graduate and to get
married but then you're arrested yeah or
you can't pursue them before we conclude
you have an organization that um details
more of some of your work and um can
learn more about what's happening there
absolutely uh I'm the one of the
co-founders of of the uh abandoned Biden
movement and we have an organization
called the Civil Rights Alliance For
America it's dedicated to use the
political system to advance the
priorities and interests of the umah in
particular for now we're focusing on the
issue in Palestine and we're asking
people to abandon the president a
genocider who's enabling these attacks
uh in Gaza to persist uh we the case we
make is that if we punish the president
and then we're the ones who are seen as
the reason at our own hands Muslim
Americans who have the power to do that
in the swing States then we would end up
buying power because right now the
problem if you diagnose it is that no
one is taking us seriously even though
we are speaking out and coming out in
protests and so we must punish
politicians almost all of them right now
who are not advancing the interests of
Palestinians despite the clear images of
suffering and Injustice that's taking
place and so we are making the case that
Muslim Americans might be the most
powerful Muslims on the planet and yet
they don't know it and all they have to
do is vote vote against genocide and
vote for truth and through telling the
truth they would fall and follow in the
footsteps of the prophets Alam who asked
us to say the truth even if it harms
us and so that's our goal thank you guys
thank you guys for sharing this uh with
us hopefully uh people who
are trying to understand the situation A
little better to shed some more light on
it and whoever's humanity is on uh they
can go ahead and speak out speak
out dear brother for always speaking out
and for all the Muslims all around the
world we ask you to speak out and to ask
those who we live with for the veiling
of Truth and Justice to come not only to
Muslims but all non-muslims on this
planet that suffers and at a time which
our um is weak and so much in dire need
of a victory may Allah T grant us this
Victory amen amen thank you amen and if
you'd like to learn more we open up and
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with you assalamu alaykum