is this forbidding of usury modern-day
interests what did you take on that and
as I said in the beginning like if
humanity nowadays are really looking for
you know will being and for Prosperity
they all Muslims and non-muslims have no
choice but to get back to the divine
finance system it's divine complete
system that we have the whole blueprint
for life the Quran and the Sunnah but
also now you have the divine what you
call the divine finance this is more
proof that he was a messenger not just
making this stuff how would he come up
with all this how well this is exactly
what the Islamic finance and economic
system is based on it's all about
justice it's all about fairness that's
all about you know risk sharing but are
we willing Muslims to take that
challenge and to upgrade or shift
Islamic finance from the theory stage to
the piano practice stage by establishing
what's your foresight being an expert in
economics with everything that's going
on now people being out of work and all
of the chaos what is your foresight what
do you see happening now in the United
States with the economy assalamualaikum
greetings a piece my next guest dr. mein
received his advanced degrees in Egypt
Jordan and the United States known for
his knowledge in divine compliant
finance banking and contracts
dr. Mane is a respected member of the
community who is often called upon to
lecture and present across the u.s. also
a member of MJ when I come back we're
gonna be talking about another proof
that indeed Prophet Muhammad is the last
and final messenger we got a ton of
proof but this is just another proof
because when you implement this and you
stay away from it and you implement this
system you learn about it in a minute
and you think why would Prophet Muhammad
peace and blessings be upon him prohibit
people from indulging in this and have
an alternative system that is much more
just fair and on point and if you were
to be given option a and option B and
let's see what you would choose with my
next guest here dr. Maine
to cover this topic Islamic
this is you know you know practice part
so I'm not a practitioner understand I
can make more than two their practice
you know yeah but this is your this is
uh everyone hat you're also a specialist
in the Quran Hafiz Quran you're also
somebody who is pretty much well
grounded and and many of the different
Sciences of of Islam but is this more
your specialty where you really focus on
this background actually I do have my my
PhD in Islamic studies but when it comes
to the desert ation you know I wrote my
dissertation in Islamic and Islamic
France in particular and then after that
you know I focused more on studying like
different you know Semak mortgage
contracts and and made some some
analysis and some recommendations on how
to make those contracts as Sharia
compliant as possible in addition to
some other you know research papers that
I published in the same field systemic
economics an Islamic finance this is
what my expertise arson came from would
you agree that this is one of the major
I mean there's a ton of proofs and
evidences to prove that the Quran is
from the Creator the heavens and earth
Allah if you study the life for the last
and final messenger sent to mankind the
problem Hamid peace and blessings be
upon him while people are trying to win
followers by making it easy as possible
pretty much we got the culture of do as
I will Yolo you only live white once
follow your desires here the Prophet
Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him
is coming with a perfect moral code the
do's and don'ts of life things that now
you have to struggle a little bit to
implement but it's gonna make your life
better one of those things I think would
you say is just another compounded proof
that he is a messenger is this
forbidding of usury
modern-day interests what did you take
on that well I would I would definitely
second what you have said ad I do
believe that
and since you're raising the usually or
the RIBA or the interest issue we
Muslims actually believe that that user
is prohibited for Muslims in the same
way it was prohibited you know for
Christians and for Jews as well and the
matter of fact even in the Quran itself
there is a straightforward evidence that
allah subhanaw taala has prohibited you
no interest or usury for the jewish
community he said well actually him Oh
Reba Walker didn't wanna they used to
like deal with one another would
interest despite the fact that they were
prohibited from doing so so nowadays if
humanity Muslims are non-muslims as well
are pursuing really you know well-being
being and you know in the safe side
growing have you know having a peace of
mind they have no choice actually but to
abide to the divine law some are so that
sometimes instead of calling the the
semuc finest as such I call it a divine
finance instead of Islamic finance
because actually it's not execute simply
for Muslims just for everybody and and
and the Bible and the Torah and the
Quran we wholeheartedly believe Muslims
that whatever Allah Samaritan has
prohibited for Muslims is still
prohibited for people of different
faiths especially when it comes to those
like three major divine religions
Christianity Judaism and Islam so of
course I like and what you said that I
agree with you so would you so you said
it's divine finance oh yes it is
that's a nice term divine finance yeah
and and we and we believe I mean
obviously people don't know that the
original books that were given to Moses
the Torah what was given to Jesus peace
be upon I mean what was given to David
the zaboor and its original those
original books that obviously we don't
have today that's like the Creator sent
the last and final revelation to the end
of time the verbatim word of god
almighty the quran and this is just
continuing that
legacy louder though I like what you
said what was prohibited then for a lot
of the interests based usury that is
still today we still have that and this
is for all of mankind I spoke to a
Christian not too long ago they were
just many Christians are just getting
fed up they go to the different churches
and they see like it's almost like a
dance party a disco and all the rules
are being broken and whatnot but they
like this when they look in Islam they
see like hold on they see the modesty
the dress of the women
imitating Mary the mother of Jesus they
see the beautiful strict moral code even
these things they pointed out in my
conversation with this Christian he
pointed out look at this usury based
system that's actually oppressing people
why what's the wisdom of the prohibition
of usury interests well let me just take
one wanna step back before I answer this
question sometimes I said when I go to
like other places of worship like a
synagogue or AA or a chair when it is my
time to talk I just introduce the Quran
a very simple way that is very appealing
to my fellow Americans I tell them
listen Quran is the last virgin is the
last version of Torah and Bible no more
or no less
maybe we differ in some you know some
technicalities and how to pray and how
to fast and how to pay as they care but
when it comes to the fundamental rules
and principles they are just copy and
paste from one another there is no
difference between the three of course
I'm I'm referring to the original to the
original Bible Tower are not to the you
know the the additions that people read
nowadays believing that they are the you
know the tower or the Bible that's
that's of course a different different
discussion now to answer your question
and Eddie well we need to believe here
that that Allah knows what we do not
know when we say that the Islamic
finance is deeply rooted in the divine
law we mean what we say it has been like
usually it has been prohibited by God by
by allah subhanaw taala for everybody
because whenever whenever riba it
actually is the is the arabic team
theorem of fusion
whenever riba is implemented in any
society always always there is a lot of
injustice and unfairness because
actually it is based on very simple
concept which is the risk shifting risk
shifting means simply that when you go
to Bank of America and borrow $10,000
for example in a very positive way the
bank does not care about the outcome
result of that loan whether you make a
profit whether you do not make a profit
whether you are you know lose your
principal the bank does not care the
only language that they understand is
that okay I'm going to give you $10,000
you have to pay me back $11,000 in two
years
are you okay with that if you say yes
you're gonna take the money if no then
then there is no money you take it or
you leave it you see maybe you make a
profit maybe you do not make a profit
maybe for some you know preventive
circumstances every your circumstances
you lose everything you know including
the principle itself okay
yet the bank it does not care about you
well by law by the by the law of the
land okay you have to pay back the
$11,000 it's absolutely not the case
when it comes to Islamic finance because
simply when you go to an Islamic bank as
long as it is proven that this is like a
genuine sound Islamic practice not just
a name that they put a lock in the front
of the bank while while the practice is
unaesthetic if it is the real Islamic
there is nothing called loan to start
with the bank actually should should
should get involved in an actual genuine
partnership with you you want to upgrade
your business the bank in our example
Bank of America has to be your partner
or at least your investor you take that
money based on a certain more the
finance called Madonna Madonna but just
like a joint you know a joint
partnership money is provided by a Bank
of America and the operation and the
work is provided by you you the
enterpreneur the businessman right so if
there is an actually in the profit and
the body will be sharing the profit but
if there is
there is a last name Bank of America in
this case is not entitled to any profits
because simply there was no profit so
one of the main differences that I want
to explain to everybody here is that
instead of going with the with the risk
shifting okay and and the man-made
you know finance system or economic
system we go with with the risk sharing
in the Islamic finance risk sharing
means justice we either make a profit
everybody is happy or otherwise if there
is no profit then the one who provided
the money is not entitled to any money
and the worst case scenario if the
principle is lost okay then the one
actually who operated the one who was
like running the business is not
financially responsible so this is
actually the justice that we are you
know we are calling for nowadays have
you ever gotten a chance to offer one or
the other - not yet Muslims someone out
there and you're explaining it and he
said which would after you explained
both concepts and now has anyone have
you had a chance to do that and has
everyone always chosen which one do they
usually choose like 50 percent this time
out I'll take the one with 5% 10% 20%
interest or I'll take this one over here
on the other side the Islamic one after
it's explained thoroughly and you go
ahead and you make it clear to them what
do they usually choose well I said I did
you know I did have a conversation with
some of my you know coming so you know
after explaining the principle of
Islamic finance in this very particular
issue which is which is the risk sharing
instead of you know risk shifting it was
it was actually appealing for everybody
I mean it makes a lot of sense why we
just hold one one party responsible for
everything regardless of the outcome
result of their of the business while
the other party is not responsible so
ever I mean this is the exact
exploitation that we are standing
against if you analyze the finance
system unfortunately ad it's not in the
US I mean the capitalist economic system
is dominating
almost the whole world nowadays okay
it's a very excuse me it's a very
unethical very unethical very
irresponsible very predatory very
exploitative you know model actually of
economy and finance it increases you
know inequality in the society
now the rich party becomes more and more
rich and the poor party in the business
becomes more and more why because again
we do not care about the outcome result
there is a risk shifting from day one
the borrower actually is fully
responsible you know to pay off the
principal plus interest regardless of
the outcome result and the lender
actually just staying and just relaxing
or waiting for the for the you know for
the money in addition to that the
capitalist economic system goes with a
principle called value neutral principle
value neutral economic principle or
philosophy it means that the system
itself does not care about what kind of
commodity what kind of merchandise what
kind of product you produce to the you
know to the society as long as you the
producer is very happy as long as you
are making money then go ahead and just
do whatever you want you see well we do
not believe in that in the in the in the
Islamic economic system you have to be
ethically responsible you have to be
socially responsible for the well-being
of the society even if a producing or
manufacturing you know weapons is very
harmful very harmful and jeopardize the
safety and the security of the society
the the the the the the the what they
call it the capitalist economic system
does not care even if you even if you
form a really threat to the to the you
know eviction and to the principles of
the society by producing pornography for
example or any kind of adult
entertainment you know product in the in
the capitalist economic system you have
a green light to go ahead and just do
whatever you want
you see in the Islamic finance and
economic system we do not believe in
that a certain product or certain
project might be very profitable but if
it is harmful to the society then you
cannot you cannot do so always there are
like you know ethics and social
responsibility that has to be taken into
into consideration those are like some
of the I would say major differences
between the divine finance versus the
manmade finance and economic system so I
would say I mean without a doubt I mean
when you look at these things that this
is just more proof that Prophet Muhammad
peace and blessings be upon him when you
look at it I mean ton of evidence there
but this is just more proof that he
indeed was a messenger from God Almighty
Allah bringing this divine complete
system that we have the whole blueprint
for life the Quran and the Sunnah but
also now you have the divine what you
call the divine finance this is more
proof that he was a messenger not just
making this stuff how would he come up
with all this how absolutely and as I
said in the beginning like if humanity
nowadays are really looking for you know
will being and for prosperity they all
Muslims and non-muslims have no choice
but to get back to the divine finance
system it's all about you know equality
it's all about you know fighting poverty
and fighting you know crime and creating
you know equal opportunities for
everybody it's all about justice bye bye
bye you know the risk sharing between
the two different contracting parties I
wish you know I can I can I can show you
some some data for the outcome results
of different Islamic banks in the Middle
East comparison to traditional banks it
shows clearly that the house numbers of
even even during like you know when the
when the economy is bad okay the the
profitability and the sustainability and
the stability of those systemic banks
who really practice divine finance
system is way way better than you know
those banks who do not believe in the
divine
system so even when it comes to
profitability profitability and
feasibility you would be experiencing a
lot of prosperity a lot of you know you
know profit of course halala profit when
you go with the with the with the divine
finance and economic system so it's not
only you know something religious no
even though it comes to business and
money it's more profitable more
profitable and more stable on the on the
long run so you have just to simplify
the standard system that's run all over
the world usually is that you have a
loan you go in and you get let's say for
example hundred thousand dollars and you
get there for so many amount of years
and by the time you pay that off you
paid off and and that's usually you're
paying that off it goes towards the the
the interest most of all most of your
payments not the principle but then when
you finally pay it off you're paying off
how much like two three times more four
times more and you can earn you can be
like just a year left to pay everything
off and if like you said if you don't
make it that payment you miss some
months that's it everything is gone you
lose everything is this correct yeah
there is a calculation system and and
and the mortgage industry and they was
called amortization amortization system
in just a you know a way or a formula to
calculate the principle versus interest
that you have to pay now put aside the
divine finance system let's go with the
traditional one you have to pay off the
principal you have to pay the interest
and unfortunately this amortization
system actually focuses focuses on on
mandating you as a customer or as a
victim actually a reality and paying off
the principal like most of the payments
goes toward the interest and not to the
principal for the first five years so
you just keep paying interest on
interest on interest and then after five
years of you if you decide to continue
then like more percentage from the
monthly payment or the mortgage payment
will be going toward the you know toward
the the the you know the principal just
a very good
sample for the injustice that we
experienced here in the US if you still
remember back in 2008-2009 AD when the
when the housing industry collapse to
completion President Barack Obama came
up with with the short sale you know law
here in the in the US it means simply
that if you are unable to keep paying
off your mortgage you need to bring
somebody else who does not hold the same
last name of yours okay
and just to bring him in a friendly
agreement with the bank to replace you
taking the property okay because the
market value of the property went down
maybe 60 70 80 % okay now on papers you
have to commit to paying the principal
and the interest before the you know
recession that took place in the u.s.
back in 2008-2009 the the the injustice
part here the you know the funny part
here if the if the system does allow you
to bring somebody else too short you
know sale that property and the bank is
willing to make a discount for the third
party to take the property to take over
the property okay and just kick you out
why the bank does not allow you the
customer okay to sit down together and
just make a deal okay by just dividing
the last between you and and the bank I
mean why should you allow a third party
to come until you know to take over my
property while I'm here instead of
making a discount to a stranger to take
you know my property why do not you make
a discount for me I'm your customer
let's sit down together and just divide
you know the loss between me and you
everybody will be happy
and the law of the land says no you
cannot do that you have to bring
somebody from from outside well this
makes no sense whatsoever you see
because actually people do not care
about the will being at the prosperity
of one another we just take advantage of
one another
this kind of attitude does not exist in
the Islamic finance or the divine - yeah
that's amazing because the people now as
I mentioned earlier if you gave them a
choice door a or door B we just talked
about
a and this is very unjust you see this
happening I mean it's just people losing
their whole livelihood you know
everything they invested in and now
something like this hat hits them the
the thing that we're going through right
now with the corona virus and how many
people now are just losing their homes
and they've built their everything on
interest on this usury and on interest
system and they don't care the banks
don't care that's it you're gonna just
end up losing everything
so but then door B you know the divine
financial system that we have and when
it's thoroughly explained most people
they don't are ignorant about it they
fight against it but now they would
actually if they were just open their
minds and their hearts and you got a
chance to to hear all this they would
they would choose to go through board
door number two be that the one the from
from from God Almighty Allah the system
that's in the Quran and the Sunnah this
is this is amazing yeah that's
absolutely correct and lets me add here
one more component ad instead of listed
if you and I on other like you know
Muslim community members in in the u.s.
instead of being in the theoretical part
of the Islamic finance and stomach
economic system we need to be proactive
by producing some solutions practical
solutions to the society because when we
do so we will not be benefiting
ourselves only will be benefiting
everybody because the divine finance
system is applicable and good for
everybody not not only for wisdom and
that's why by the way if you are if you
check the academic programs offered by
guidance college that the guidance
college that's or if you go to our
website guidance college that's all you
will find out that we offer a program
that is masters in Islamic economics and
finance around thirty six thirty eight
credit hours the main goal behind this
program is to enjoy you know is to
inject more you know more more justice
and more fairness and more value to the
US economic and finance system we want
to have Muslim
and sisters while highly specialized in
an economic and finance who are able to
redirect you know the direction of the
US economy and finance toward you know
the best interest of everybody in this
in this society that's masters in
Islamic economics and finest we have
been hundred operating for the last
seven or eight years and insha'Allah you
know you will see the outcome results
whenever we have like you know highly
specialized professionals in Islamic
finance and Islamic you know economics
who will be you know heavily you know
indulgent and the finance system and try
to modify the direction okay or redirect
actually the economy should be to be
more just and more fair for everybody
table have you had a chance to see this
interview with a person who is he was
called the life of economic hitman and
this because we talk up we just talked
about more individual oppression but now
when they take this interest and they
and end up giving these loans to
countries and in the country's getting
slave you can you can see like wow now I
know why God Almighty Allah talks so
harshly on this that he goes to talking
about that there's war waged against God
you know because God Almighty is the one
who is perfectly just and he wants
justice on earth so did you get a chance
to see this the life of the economic
hitman and which this opinion opinion
about that is actually I have you know I
have watched the presentation that he
made in full and subhanAllah I was I was
impressed that this guy after maybe 30
or 40 years being like an expert in
economics he is touching the exact
points that the Muslim economists were
raising maybe 60 or 70 years ago it's
all about exploitation it's all about
taken advantage of one another it's all
about shifting the risk and holding one
party responsible while the other one is
just taken advantage of others it's all
about the ethics okay and the social
responsibility that
the capitalist economic system does you
know does not take into consideration
whatever applies on an individual level
does apply on country levels it doesn't
make a difference because the principal
axes are the are the same so the one who
adopts this you know man made unethical
socially irresponsible economic and
finance system will apply all these
principles okay when it comes to lending
one another or or one comes to countries
like you know dealing with the with
other countries so however as if he is
saying like toward an the physical
presentation that I mean he didn't make
it clear but as if he is saying that we
need to we need to rectify we need to
modify we need to edit you know the the
the capitalist economic system to be
more socially and more ethically
responsible instead of far you know
exploiting others are taken advantage of
them know we need to be more just a more
favorable than well this is exactly what
the Islamic finance and economic system
is based on it's all about justice it's
all about fairness that's all about you
know risk sharing between the two
contracting parties instead of shifting
that risk and just still hold a
one-party responsible are these long
these systems that are out there now are
they really that are advertised where
they say Islamic Lee compliant
interest-free loans that are the type
there's a lot of them you know which
ones that are out there are they like
what's the percentage wise or how could
someone differentiate because some
people will say well I go to this one
and they kind of just have a fee at the
end and then what's the difference
people it spreads a lot of confusion
with the people so then they say okay I
at the end I end up paying more and I
rather go towards this interest and what
do you have to say about the programs
that are out there the majority of them
are they actually interest-free or is
are they just going around the system
are you referring to the Islamic
mortgage companies in the US the park
yes well there is a long version as
there is a short version answer the
shortcut your answer is that no they go
around the system well let's be let's be
elaborate more if you don't mind those
companies actually deal in what is
called the secondary market they sell
their their contracts to Freddie Mac and
feed him a right to get you know some
liquidity and to go back you know to the
to the to the industrial and find more
customers to Tilden houses in order for
those contracts to be syllable to
Freddie Mac and freedom a they have to
comply with the principles with the
guidelines Fred American freedom a so I
make a joke actually with you know with
people in charge of those companies I
tell them listen you are like a Freddie
Mac compliance more than to be a Sharia
compliant right and up to certain limits
up to certain limit I cannot blame them
because they work within the system it
is a shoe ad in order for you to
establish a genuine and sound Islamic
Islamic finest practice the whole
economic and finance system in the
country has to be an Islamic one which
is unfortunately not the case in the
u.s. not the case overseas so it is it
is close to impossible close to
impossible to integrate a genuine sound
okay legitimate systemic finest practice
in a non Islamic Khurana system as
simple as that there is a severe
incompatibility between the Islamic
finance system versus the capitalist
finance system right so to you know try
to indulge so-called you know systemic
mortgage companies or industry in the
u.s. here to be honest to do it is close
to impossible
and this actually raises another issue
here which is which is the the fact that
the Muslim community in the u.s. is not
that active in coming up with a solution
we just keep you know criticizing the
system and talking and giving lectures
about Haram and halal and rib and
interest and this company is good and
this company is bad okay what is next we
need to be proactive in
being reactive I mean we lectured enough
about ribbon about interest what does it
take for the Muslim community to
establish their own national national
Sharia compliant credit union for
example well Loni we have billions of
dollars K owned by the Muslim community
in the u.s. millions of millions of
dollars the money is there but the
willingness and that you know
determination to put our resources
together to establish a system that is
very doable
that is very functional that is very
beneficial not only for Muslims we care
about others in the same way that we
care about ourselves we are a part of
the society you see we can definitely do
that
and and you know I did you know my own
attempt a while ago you know with some
other partners and professors at the
Guidance college to establish a National
Credit Union in the u.s. for Muslims
okay like wisdom based you know credit
union national one just to give you an
idea if if we can do so one day maybe we
can we can you know we can you know
shadow or just establish a system that
is similar to Freddie Mac we can refer
to that credit union and helping Muslims
finding a genuine sound Sharia compliant
solution for mortgaging homes in the in
the u.s. it's really unfortunate to say
that the resistance the resistance and
the reluctance came from Muslims before
others you see so so so we should blame
nobody but ourselves I mean the solution
is there this is a country of
opportunities this is a country of money
everything actually is doable the law of
the land action is very flexible you
guard and do whatever you want well then
the you know the law of the land so
putting your resources together and
establish establish an investment
company okay whether it is a credit
union whether it is an Islamic bank
I mean you can do whatever you want of
course you need to do some some lobbying
and you know get some some exemptions
or license to practice but actually is
it doable or not the answer is yes it is
doable but the the challenge here are we
willing Muslims to take that challenge
and to upgrade or shift Islamic finance
from the theory stage to the you know
practice stage by establishing
establishing companies and and entities
and agencies okay who are willing to
serve the American society at large of
course including Muslims that is the
challenge that we are facing nowadays
dr. dr. one thing I wanted before we
conclude that I want to talk to you
about is what's your foresight being an
expert in economics with everything
that's going on now people being out of
work and all of the chaos what is your
foresight what do you see happening now
in the United States with the economy
this is a like a brand new experience
for you know for us even the leadership
of the society to be honest with you to
my knowledge does not know or cannot
predict the future
because the severe consequences and the
impact of covered 19 is unimaginable
okay a lot of people are just you know
like going out of business losing their
jobs the economy actually is shutting
down for how long we can tolerate that
honestly I do not have any data in front
of me I did not experience anything that
is similar to covered 19 that took place
in the last you know two or three
hundred years either in the US or abroad
to make some prediction what will happen
it's really really unfortunate to say
that the leadership of this country is
not taking the issue as serious as it
should be jeopardizing you know the
well-being and the health of the
community at large is obvious and clear
we are giving priority to the you know
the to the to the prosperity of business
and you know economy on the cost of the
will being and the health of people I
wish I hope
I pray that the loss of hanataro would
help us all as an American society at
large
you know overcoming this pandemic but to
be honest with you I I cannot predict
the future because again that's you know
that's a like a brand new experience for
all of us
you see health-wise economic wise
finance wise jobs opportunities very
very brand-new experience for the
American society at large of course it
is an international issue what I'm
talking about you know about the USA in
particular because we live here in the
US
my answer is that I do not I do not know
to be honest with you I need to like VCS
more and read more to make some some you
know data-driven you know prediction of
the near future of the economy and the
u.s. last question what advice do you
have for people who are trying to get
into university they don't have the
money but now there's the loan people
who are trying to get home and now some
people make the exemption they say okay
well this is like Hamid you know like
alcohol you can drink alcohol if you're
about to die or drink eat the pork you
know we don't need pork or drink alcohol
but you know there's an exception you're
about to die you can eat the pork and
then they'll go ahead and use this
analogy for the same thing with interest
now this is a last resort what have you
heard this argument and what's your
advice for people who are trying to go
down that road and get themselves an
education or get a home but their only
option is to get a loan actually I'm a
member and the resident fatwa committee
of Mg the Assembly of Muslims yours of
America this is a like a senior scholars
council and we we did we do and we
continue receiving questions from our
Muslim community in the US this
particular issue actually was was raised
back in back in March 2020 when the
government started talking about the PPP
program right the the the payroll for
the protection program and the question
was very simple I have
business that about to shut down I
cannot survive without taking a loan
this loan is an interest-bearing loan
however a good portion of it is
forgivable if I prove to that to the IRS
that I paid that money to keep my
employees or for the rent of my offices
then actually I would be waived from a
good percentage of that you know that
money there is a default rule when it
comes to RIBA and interest and there is
an exception okay
the default rule is that usury and
borrow money with interest is prohibited
however if there is the necessity proven
to be there okay and a part of the
necessity that that you know business is
about to shut down I either take a loan
with interest and just pay my employees
and just inject some some money in the
business to keep running or otherwise
I'm gonna just you know shutting the
business down and just fire my employees
if that's you know very particular
circumstances is proven then borrowing
money with interest as an exception as a
dispensation dispensation or exception
would be permitted but you need to be
careful we talked I mean we take those
loans as needed as necessary only and by
any chance if we can pay off that loan
as soon as possible to keep the interest
to the minimum then then we have to do
that but again this is this is a very
irregular very you know exceptional
circumstances we were borrowing money
with interest you know becomes allowable
because it's a necessity and actually we
did issue a fatwa body by M Java by our
Council that for those who need that PPP
lawn they can just go ahead and and take
it mm-hmm hey thank you very much
working people now you mentioned that
you're part of the is this your
Institute the guidance College yes
actually I'm the president of guidance
College and I do teach some some courses
and the Islamic finance program we do
have some other professors its guidance
College it used to be a hood a
university a while ago and then we
change the name we have master's in
Islamic finance and economics we have
master
an Islamic education and we had bachelor
degree and an Islamic studies we are
working hard and getting our regional
accreditation in the US who are
inshallah that that close from being
accredited in the US I would highly
recommend our audience to check our
website and see if they are interested
and taken a class or even being like
degree students guidance college that's
all hey thank you so much for being with
us here on the Deen show thank you so
much for having me is like a lot here
thank you so much that was our guest dr.
main here in the Deen show describing
the beautiful system of the divine
finance versus the man-made and if
you're interested to learn more about
Islam read the Quran it's a divine book
from the Creator the heavens and earth
and not only are there prohibitions but
there are there's guidance on how you
need to live this life why you here why
you've been created the whole purpose of
life is there and most people are if
they're intelligent and they they want
to know like why they've been created
they're gonna have an inch they're gonna
have a scratch they're gonna have a void
and that will cause them to seek and if
you seek you shall find and if you ask
the creator of the heavens on earth to
guide you you will and then by looking
into Islam you will indeed especially if
you've kind of dilly-dallied in all the
other man-made religions and usually
they've been so many roadblocks
deterrence a lot of junk put on the
treasure but then after experience in
tasting all the man-made religions yeah
and you finally get to Islam your
sincere open minded humble hearted then
you'll see that wow this is amazing
everything is there and how I need to
live how I need to survive and what
happens after I depart because there is
a dd departure date when I leave this
life and this is just one of the many
proofs because a smart intellectual
person things like wow why would Prophet
Muhammad how would he come up with the
perfect system of praying five times a
day paying as a cat that would eradicate
poverty a obligation on every Muslim one
of the pillars of Islam and on and on
and on and then you think like okay then
you have the whole perfect moral code
and then you had the whole financial
system there and one of these things is
the prohibition of usury modern-day
interests now why why would Prophet
Muhammad make his job harder to bring
people in to Islam why would he do that
unless he was indeed given no other
choice but to relay the truth because
that truth was given to him from the
crater that heavens and earth God
Almighty Allah and he wasn't there to go
ahead and change the religion to appease
the people no because it's a just system
and everything is there to help humanity
become a place of peace and prosperity
and justice for all
so this was just another proof that
indeed Prophet Muhammad was indeed a
messenger from God Almighty Allah
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