welcome once again to our show and this
is Frank a your host uh today we have Dr
seil uh from the ikno organization and
no stranger to our show we've had a
number of shows with him now um both our
own shows and his shows Eddie raznovich
who is um a longtime friend of mine but
a Jiu-Jitsu teacher of martial arts he
has a school of the Gracie jiujitsu uh
but today we're not discussing martial
arts or politics or anything else we're
discussing the topic of religion and
besides having a Gracie jiujitsu school
and being a prominent martial artist in
his own right he also has a website
called the dean show and as I understand
it the dean is the way or it could be
translated religion but the way in
Arabic and uh
www.th show.com is that correct yes
Frank okay Dr Sabal this is your first
time on our show um thank thank you for
coming and it's a pleasure to have you
first tell us a little bit about
yourself who is Dr
saal first of all greetings of peace to
yourself and to all the viewers out
there I'm sabil Ahmed born in India
moved over here a while ago let me break
in what part of India are you from uh
from Hyderabad okay yeah it's kind of
the southern part of India okay uh I'm
married with two beautiful children
three years and two and a half months
old kid congratulations thank you very
much
so I'm involved with uh gain peace it's
an Outreach project of icna Islamic
circle of North America okay and I'm the
director of gain peace okay um so
Islamic circle of North America and I
think I have been some events it's a a
COR similar organization that's like k
um which is the conso on Islamic
relations which had a very big dinner
that I was at some time ago with Dr sh
basion but tell us a little bit about uh
the organization and the project little
more on the project that you're involved
with yeah Islamic circle of North
America and the gain peace project that
we're doing the purpose of that project
is to share Islam with Humanity at large
and open up a Channel of discussion
between different faiths and different
people so we could get to sit down in
one table as we're doing right now so we
could understand each other better and
if there are some misconceptions between
other you know different faiths and
different communities we could sit down
and discuss as human beings okay um well
this show uh we've had some shows that
have been more General uh more not that
this w't be friendly but he wants me to
ask all the tough questions today all
the misconceptions and I think the
number one in terms of Islam is
Terrorism that you had September 11th
911 2001 and uh Osama bin lden um uh is
identified uh with many Muslims and the
United States views him very negatively
as I think they should uh he was the
head of al- Qaeda he was in Afghanistan
where you had a Taliban government and
uh many people I heard that um they
named their kids Osama that was one of
the top birth names in uh Pakistan that
he's very popular in some parts of the
world um and he committed terrorism at
least 911 but possibly in Kenya and
Tanzania um other terrorist
attacks so in many people's minds um
Islam is linked with with terrorism
let's maybe start with that and start
with um 9/11 is is there a community
does Islam or Muslims as a community
have some guilt for September
11th well first of all let's answer that
question in the context of what Islam is
all about okay the name of the Islam
itself it means peace that comes from
submission to one God one of the names
of God is peace okay and when Muslims
greet each other we greet each other
with the greeting of Peace assalam
alaykum so Islam as a whole it has to do
or revols around the concept of
peace now Islam is an ideology it is the
way of life Dean like the dean show that
we have a brother Eddie up here okay so
according to Muslims Islam is a guidance
which is
perfect however it was given to humanity
and human beings by Nature they're not
perfect
so some people by their ignorance by the
Revenge factor in the thick of the war
or political reasons or whatever reasons
they may act or do some things which may
not be according to the tenants of
Islam so it is very important for the
yourself and for the viewers out there
to differentiate what Islam is and what
Islam is not so it's important to
distinguish the actions of Muslims from
the ideology of Islam Islam is perfect
Muslims are not just like in any other
Faith so I'm implying what you're saying
is that Osama bin Len done is not acting
According to Islamic tenants would that
be correct well first of all he has not
been brought to any world code to
examine the evidence from each side I'm
not going to defend him I'm not going to
support him because we don't know all
the facts number one if he committed for
the sake of argument the 911 then
Muslims would be the very first people
to condemn it because it says in the
Quran chapter 5 verse number 32 that
anyone who saves the life of an innocent
person it is as if he saved all of
humanity and if a person takes the life
of a human being it is as if he have
taken the life of all of humanity so in
Islam sanctity of life is of ofmost
importance and Prophet Muhammad peace be
upon Him mentioned he prohibited the
killing of innocent people okay now I do
not know all the evidence but it seems
that Osama bin lden in his own words he
releases videotapes primarily to Al
jazer but also to other he he inter he's
interviewed in the past for reporters
that he has made statements about um the
United States being in Saudi Arabia and
that is a political question and maybe
they shouldn't be in Saudi Arabia I
don't know what the answer to that is
but that he has applauded 9/11 claims
responsibility for it in his own work
words now I I actually studied Arabic
but I don't speak it in any any fluency
so um so assuming that the English
translation is correct Osama bin Len in
his own words has claimed that and he
cites Islam and Jihad in his own
words again for the sake of argument
even if he did that right with the
whatever translation that we have then
obviously you know if he did that he's
not following the tenants of Islam okay
so we should be very fear in
distinguishing what Islam teaches then
the actions of Muslims just like you
know many Christians or Jews or Hindus
they have committed acts of terrorism so
Islam is not the only Faith or Muslims
are not the only people all throughout
history we have Christians doing heinous
acts you have the Crusades you have the
Inquisition you have uh the the
colonization and the killing of the
American Indians and the Bosnian killing
and the paride the list goes on and on
so as a fear Muslim we should not attach
these killing by Christians to the
teachings of
Christianity so likewise it would be
fair for the viewers and everyone out
there to not attach the stigma of
terrorism or violence with the beautiful
teachings of Islam that prohibits
killing of innocent people okay one
distinction between Islam and
Christianity is that um Islam teaches um
a philosophy that is all pervading in
all aspects of life including government
Christianity intrinsically does not
necessarily have to deal with government
Jesus says in the gospel to Render unto
Caesar that which is Caesar's and to
Render unto God that which is God and
for the first 300 years of
Christianity's existence it was not
linked with a government however in the
history of Islam it is intrinsically
linked with government it's
intrinsically linked with Society how
Society is run rather than a community
within a society or individuals within
that Society so it's a little easier to
link
what an Islamic Society does to Islam
than it is to individual Christians with
Christianity because Christianity is not
by its philosophy linked with government
Islam and correct me if I'm wrong by its
function is linked to government yes
you're right if you want to answer that
I could also add you know because I also
want his input in what we're doing
because it's a three-way show I hope yes
yes okay thank you for having me again
on your show Frank I wanted to comment
first on this great
misconception that Islam is about
terrorism terrifying people Obama Osama
whatever the name categorically
unequivocally Islam
denounces any acts of
terrorism we
have in our teachings which is not just
for us is for the whole of mankind Islam
simply means surrender and submission to
the creator of the heavens and the Earth
alone without Associates submitting to
him on his term not your terms his terms
obeying him and all his command commands
and all the good that he has invited us
to and we have the best of examples his
last and final messenger that was sent
as a mercy to the whole of mankind now
in the verbatim word of God the Quran it
says God is speaking he said God does
not forbid you from dealing kindly and
justly with those who have not driven
you out of your homes oppressed you so
this is clear now there are verses in
there when you're in the battle it's one
thing somebody comes and smacks you on
the right cheek you don't give them the
left but it's better to forgive God is
saying there are examples in Trad in the
tradition of the last and final
messenger beautiful teachings of
Mercy a woman had died in the
battlefield and the prophet peace be
upon him the last and final messenger
was angry he sent out the Scouts he said
there is there is no chopping down of
trees there is no killing innocent uh
women and children the monks the
Christians or the Jew who are in their
places of worship you cannot touch these
people there is
no system as the Islamic system that
clearly defines what you can do in a
battle and what you can't I had some
interactions with people who are in some
of the uh Armed Forces where they're
trained 3,000 or some hundred times a
day kill kill kill kill kill so can you
imagine if you're embedding this in
somebody's head when they're on the
battlefield even if someone drops his
weapon what he's going to do he's going
to kill most likely in Islam I'll give
you a couple narration stories authentic
stories these aren't just fairy tales
where In The Heat Of The B
a man had spit on one of the companions
of the
prophet and he was about to kill him he
didn't kill
him and when questioned later why
because he said my intention now would
have been out of my arrogance because
the man had spit on me so he didn't kill
him one more story and we can go to the
next there
are stories related of other prophets
that the prophet in his teachings would
relate to his companions of one Prophet
who got bit by an ant so he destroyed
the whole home of the other ants the
whole Mo Hill of all the other ants God
had admonished him and said you're going
to go and destroy all the ants because
of
one cuz he bit you so this is a story an
example that we don't go ahead and do
things unjustly there is Justice in
Islam there is Mercy in Islam one more
and we'll go to the next point when the
prophet peace be upon him was called
upon by his companions he said curse all
these people they're fighting us
remember they the Muslims were being
attacked and oppressed for 13 years they
didn't live farms and these people were
people men who
were brought up in battles they were
these bedan Arabs were vicious people
but they were commanded
not even to fight at all 13 years now
when they came to the last and final
messenger and they told him you know
make supplication to to Allah to the
Creator to you know destroy these people
whatnot he said look I have cursed them
he said I haven't been sent to curse
I've been sent as a mercy and that's
what Islam is it's a mercy to the whole
of mankind it has nothing to do with
terrorism can I add two important um
comments to what brother Eddie has
mentioned Quran is a very big book I'm
not sure if you have read the Quran or
have seen the Quran in the English
translation you have did okay it has
thousands of verses in there along with
the Quran we have the sayings or example
of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
and they are like volumes and volumes of
those theith the Hadith or the sunah of
the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
right this is a challenge to anyone
who's out there who has who attaching
the stigma of Islam with terrorism to
find one single words anywhere from the
Quran or from anywhere from the
authentic sayings of prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him where the Quran
mentions or the prophet Muhammad
sallallahu Alam mentions to kill
innocent human being to oppress innocent
human being to strap the bombs or to uh
you know to go out and commit suicide
all of those not a single words anywhere
anywhere and that's a big volumes of
books out there right
so where I'm very surprised that you
know somebody's attaching attaching that
stigma not to Muslims but to the
religion of Islam and number
two that um Islam not only came to bring
peace it came to destroy terrorism Islam
is the answer to terrorism despite what
you're saying or what the misconception
is Islam came to fight terrorism
actually despite what people are
attaching Islam with one more point just
I want to make Frank I did a a show with
a a very intellectual scholar it's on
the Deen show.com it goes into all the
different aspects of jihad it's on theen
show.com we even have the top scholars
in Islam when 911 happened the grand
Muti of Saudi Arabia and all the
different prominent leaders they
condemned all these acts and it's
surprising that the media doesn't let
these things out it's on the Deen
show.com we have a section look to the
left when you log on and you'll see what
Islam says about terrorism click on
there and you'll see all the statements
of all the scholars condemning it
condemning it condemning it so Islam is
not about terrorism terrifying people
any of these things it's about
submission to one God and acquiring
peace let's go back to the point that
Islam unlike let's say Buddhism or
specifically Christianity is a religion
that deals specifically with government
and you said that is true sure okay
whereas some religions don't extr they
don't explicitly or necessarily deal
with government sure so if Islam is a
religion that explicitly deals with
government then you do have some
communal responsibility at least
historically because at least with the
caliphates these would be people that
had authentically Islamic governments
Abu bakar or the subsequent uh maybe I
don't know where they would decide that
it breaks off but and other government
today that claim to be authentically
Islamic whether it be the house of SA or
um whoever whatever governments if you
could comment on that Islam like we have
mentioned deals with all walks of life
of a person and of a society because it
is the dean not just a faith not just
some rituals since God or Allah knows
you know what is good for us and since
human beings are not just spiritual
human beings we are physical human
beings we have to interact with
ourselves our families and society and
for a society to function in a very
smooth and peaceful way there are
supposed to be certain institutions that
we have to establish some of those
institutions could be social
institutions educational institutions
legal institutions and governmental
institutions and political
institutions so God is a merciful god
God wants to guide Humanity in all walks
of life so for that matter he has sent
guidance in all of these different uh
institutions that I have mentioned so in
that context God also has some guidance
about the political system of Islam and
the governmental system of Islam how we
should govern ourselves how we should
you know interact in all aspects so in
that way yes in Islam there is no
separation of church and state it's an
all comprehensive guidance that Allah
has provided so you brought that up if
there is no separation of church to
State there are some Scholars who say
that there is Dar Al Islam and then I
think it's Dar Al abod but I could be
wrong in the second word but the the
realm of Islam and the realm outside of
Islam so to the extent there is no
separation of church and state is Islam
for those Muslims who now live in a
pluralistic country that has church and
state what is the role then of a Muslim
because they're no longer in Dar Al
Islam well those so those who live in
Canada the United States or a Western
European country that is either a
democracy or a christian-based country
or whatever it may be yes Muslims are
allowed to live in a non-muslim country
as long as their basic practice of faith
is not compromised okay that is the
basic role but then are Muslims waiting
for the day that the country becomes all
Muslim well if people started to accept
Islam by Muslims sharing Islam and
living as good Muslims then that's fine
if that is the will of God that's good
but no muslim could force anyone to
convert to Islam because Quran says in
chapter 2 verse 256 that there is no
compulsion in Islam and by the
statistics right now 45,000 plus people
each year they convert to Islam so Islam
is the fastest growing faith in the
world in the US and in the world that
that's an interesting point he mentioned
because with all the negative propaganda
and all the hype about what Islam is
supposedly when you come to the source
and people who are open-minded sincere
and they look at what the Quran actually
says they come to Muslims and they meet
Muslims and they see that you know what
these people are not about making bombs
and blowing things up they come to the
mids the M they hang out with us and say
man these are you know good people they
don't like to curse they don't like to
swear you know if I want to go have a
beer they're going to refuse because you
know this is something that's forbidden
they don't like to gamble they don't
like to have sex outside of marriage
these are good wholesome things they
don't worship statues icons men monkeys
and whatever they worship one God this
is something simple rational you know
what I want to be a Muslim this since
you brought it up as a side note is
gambling forbidden in Islam yes chapter
5 verse number 0 of the Quran it says
gambling is forbidden intoxicates
intoxications are forbidden no I'm I'm
aware that alcohol is forbidden yeah
without stereotyping though I see a lot
of people who are Muslim over at casinos
and they and do enjoy Arabs and others
without stereotyp we go back to the
first thing separating Islam is perfect
Muslims we have deficiency where human
beings we weak but doesn't mean that now
it takes you out of Islam you pray you
ask God Almighty Allah to help you to
have mercy on you and eventually because
a lot of times it's harder to leave a
sin and easier to move a mountain they
say so we're human beings we're weak God
is the most merciful we Implement Islam
and slowly Islam is like a medicine it
starts to clean you up and you become
this good good human being who's a good
person in society okay now let's go
historically because you're saying that
the the Muslim faith uh theoretically
ideally or as a religion in its pure
state does not allow terrorism does not
allow killing but there's a distinction
between the origination of Islam
compared let's say to other religions
two that come to mind are Buddhism you
had uh you had sart Guama Lord Buddha
sitting and attaining what he believed
was Enlightenment or you have Jesus
coming in on a donkey and then crucified
but Muhammad was also a military leader
so the Islamic religion was birthed in
military battle when Muhammad came from
Madina to conquer Mecca he came with
Warriors well you have to look again in
the context of Islam and the mission of
prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
unlike the prophets of the past he was
sent as the last prophet and a universal
prophet and he was also a role model for
not just Muslims for all of humanity so
a role model should be a role model for
each single person of the society for a
president of a country suppose Saudi
Arabia or Pakistan or so Prophet
Muhammad is the role model of how he
lived his life okay how he lived his
life as a head of a state for a person
who is a Military Arms Of You Know Chief
of Staff Prophet Muhammad is a role
model of how to interact in the battle
and how to behave in the battle for a
person who is a father Prophet Muhammad
is a role model unlike Prophet Jesus who
never
married if a person who is a son or a
daughter or a uh you know as a um as a
sibling so we have in the life of
prophet Muhammad peace be upon him all
different facets so anyone Eddie as a
father could look up to Prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him how he behaved with
his wife and with his kids he has a good
example okay me as a physician Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him he used to
heal people the way that he used to heal
people the way he used to interact with
the sick and the lepers and all of that
I have a role model as a physician in
the life of prophet Muhammad please be
upon him so in that context Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him he had lots
of opposition from people because he was
bringing people to one God so some of
the polytheist and the pagans and the
mush at the time they did not accepted
his message for whatever reason and they
started to torture Muslims and go after
the property anyone to kill them Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him did not raise
the finger against them to fight them
like brother Edie has mentioned for 13
long years Muslims suffered with
patience in the city of Mecca they did
not fight the enemies so they moved to
the city of Medina over there they
established the Islamic State the
purpose of the Islamic state is to show
Humanity at large that this is the
Islamic State and if a person accepts
Islam and lives in that Islamic State
they will find peace society would be
peaceful and they would be peaceful with
God ultimate reward would be
paradise okay so in that context there
were many enemies from outside and
sometimes from within that Islamic State
who wants to destroy the Islamic State
so all the battles were fought to repel
those
enemies not as a form of aggression or
terrorism but just to repel those
enemies in early um the early history
ofam Islam there was an expansionist
primarily Arab as a couple examples the
Egyptians were a majority Christian
although there were some remnants of
pagan the Coptic they had a distinctive
language uh distinctive culture culture
the Gees or the Coptic language and
script as well as the Persians who were
zor asrian uh there was an Arab Conquest
an Islamic conquest that spread out that
did conquer by military battle sure okay
yes so Islam in its early days certainly
won military battles of people who did
not voluntarily consent to Islam um
whether it be the Byzantine Empire with
a the Battle of manac Kirk that started
to see Asia Minor turn um from Christian
to Muslim or at least under Muslim
control that these areas were not
voluntarily converts to Islam these were
won by battles of an Arab Islamic
expansion sure one simple correction and
you could also add brother
Eddie The Message of Islam is for all of
humanity okay so in that context Muslims
are supposed to take the message of
Islam to those who do not know the
message so Islam or not started Islam
was revived again in the city of Mecca
because Islam was there all throughout
history brought by all the prophets all
the prophets they submitted to one God
and they were Muslims in the sense of
the word so the purpose of Islam or the
Muslims at their time was to take Islam
to all of humanity okay see they took
Islam to the country of Russia at the
time in China and India and Africa and
Europe they took Islam there but they
did they not force anyone to convert to
Islam but they did conquer many of these
nations by military battle that they
were under a caliphate government that's
true however when they conquered they
did not force the people of there to
convert to Islam once those non-muslim
people of that country once they saw how
Islamic system is how it is better for
them how they were being taken away from
the oppression of their own people under
the guidance of Islam under the
protection of ISL Islam and how their
rights and Liberties were given to them
how the women were uplifted to the
status that they were supposed to be
after they saw this perfect system of
Islam which was implemented on them they
converted to Islam in a volunteer basis
That's How Country by country became
Muslim but why was there the initial
military conquest of these regions All
the Way North Africa into Spain almost
the way into France from Persia on to
all the way to India sure one good
example that I could give and you could
also add brother Eddie would be in Spain
King Rodriguez was oppressing his own
Christian Fellow you know fellow beings
there was a letter sent by those
oppressed uh Christians to the Muslim
khalifate saying that come and rescue us
so the Muslim ruler at that time he sent
a delegation by um by the in charge of
the delegation was Tark bin zad so he
took his army to um release the
oppression from this people done by
their own King okay so in the year 711
the delegation went and they took away
the oppressor and they freed those
people so that's how Islam entered
Spain same way Islam entered Africa and
different parts of Europe and India and
China in a similar way most of the time
it was by the invitation of those
oppressed people to come and rescue them
by their own
people so that's how the expansion took
place it's a it's a unique situation
Frank where you have we talk about
conquering and the only thing that Islam
conquered is the hearts and the minds of
people because when
somebody really sincerely studies the
life of the last and final messenger and
the message that he brought and you
sincerely object ly look at
it there's nothing left to do and just
to submit because that's what Islam
calls you to to surrender and submit to
God Alone Now when you look at all the
Bloodshed going on all around the world
and you add up the amount and I'm going
to give you a larger amount but I
challenge anybody in 23 years do you
know how many people from the Muslim
side and the non-muslim side died in
these battles because when you're trying
to EST establish justice you might have
some criminals running around hurting
innocent people so what do you got to do
you got to lock them up they didn't even
have jails did they have jails back then
no this is amazing so tell me this how
many people do you think died in 23
years during the prophet Muhammad's
lifetime guess I I have no idea how many
people have we lost innocent people now
it doesn't matter one innocent people
I'm an American born
here I love my brothers in humanity if
somebody dies here or somebody dies in
another part of the world it's it's a
sad thing we should feel it in our
hearts how many people have died in wars
in the
last three to five years it's a good
question I don't know if I agree with
you on the history but let's take a
break and then we'll be back want to
continue this but we also want to talk
about uh why Muslim women we uh the
headdress the hijab and the role of
women in Islamic Society um we'll be
right
back and we're back um we were talking
about the history of Islam I want to
fast forward a little bit and I want to
talk a little bit more about uh maybe
some uh violence and terrorism either
another show or maybe towards the end of
the show but let's talk about the role
of
women um uh many people say that Islam
oppresses women that in Islamic
societies that women do not have as many
rights an example that is kind of a
symbol for the West either the secular
West or the Americans or Western
Europeans is the hijab and I think
there's even a a larger hijab like the
one they use a burka like in
Afghanistan um and that this is an
example of um oppression of women also
although I understand that it's not
inherently Islamic in some African
countries where there are Muslims you do
have incidents of genital mutilation
although I understand that that is not
perhaps inherently Islamic or quranic it
is a leftover tribal custom so
um what is the role of women in Islam is
it a fair
criticism of Americans or people in more
Western secular Nations to criticize the
use of hijab or a burka and then let me
tie in one more thing because one of the
most controversial things about Islam as
it is and it goes into relations with
women as as well Mormonism and perhaps
some other sex you've seen some in Texas
and Utah where they've arrested some
people recently is
polygamy that is polygamy bad for women
is polygamy something that is because
clearly is Islam permits polygamy and if
I'm and you I want you to talk about it
but my understanding is you can have up
to four
wives um and that I know you must treat
them equally and there's different but
that you can have four wives so um but
in some of the golf States and some of
the even in the Saudi the US Ally Saudi
Arabia they've had multiple wives
sometimes 70 wives are in brunai they
have a whole heram and theam I think is
even an Arabic word to have harams you
know the ID dream of Genie type of thing
for you know women dancing around Etc so
um is the and then let me actually leave
one thing and then I'll let you uh talk
for some time is that even theologically
is um in some sects of his Islam there
was an idea that when you die you uh go
to paradise which is beautiful woman 70
virgins and um it was alleged in some
historical Chronicles that I believe the
ismaelis that they would do some kind of
opium or some kind of drug hashish they
would fall asleep they'd wake up in this
beautiful garden with woman and they'd
say then they'd fall asleep again and
then that this was the you know that
this was a foraste of what Paradise was
a beautiful garden with naked or
beautiful virgins and and the like so um
and my understanding it's not the same
for woman that her Paradise or Heaven is
not uh 70 naked men or something of this
nature so what is the distinction
between men and women and is this a
oppression on women both polygamy or the
hijab or some of the other practices
that are found in Islamic countries
before we go on I let Dr seil answer
this I wanted to before we went to a
break I wanted to ask you that question
you probably have a better idea how many
people we discussed Wars that are going
on and we we feel empathy for any person
that's lost their life it's a very sad
thing that happens when innocent people
die peace is what we should be striving
for so we make this clear and I asked
you how many people in the last 3 to 5
years would you say have died in some of
the wars that are going on today around
the world I'm assuming millions millions
so now my question is to you maybe tens
of millions tens of millions Frank how
many people in 23
years have died during the Lipan of the
Prophet the last and final Messenger to
mankind of Mercy to the world how many
people do you think died I have no idea
guess it's hard for me to guess the
larger number is 4,000 Frank four and
this is not non-muslim this is Muslims
and Muslims from our sources the higher
number close to 4,000 now can you
imagine Now 23 years oppression being
driven out of your
hometown what kind of man I mean we hear
all sorts of things being thrown the
slander at this man and this is nothing
new they did this to Moses they did this
to Jesus because when truth comes and
now people are upon doing their own
thing say you're worshiping a fire
hydrant right and now you come and you
tell this man look that's a fire hydrant
your God is the one who created the Sun
and the Moon worship him but this guy
might be benefiting from worshiping that
fire hydrant or the tree or whatever
else in the creation some people got
upset some people you know what to hit
their pockets so there was conflicts
there was a time and it's confirmed
encyclopedia bratanic confirms it says
early sources show that he the prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him was an honest
and upright man who was surrounded by
others who are honest and upright men
now check this out Frank he was known as
Alin the trustworthy now you might come
across Johnny
Knuckles you might come across Mr uh
left hook uh Knock You Out Tony all
these different nicknames when have you
come across someone who's called the
trustworthy so say hey this is my friend
Mr trustworthy that's what his name was
and it's
confirmed at a time when they would
leave let's say you take off your Rolex
I'm going to leave it with you that's an
honor for you isn't that something
that's you know someone to leave their
possessions with you they left the Pagan
Arabs would leave their trusted items
with the prophet peace be upon him now
what happened the angel Gabriel came to
him said look they're plotting to kill
you so what happened he left his cousin
Ali in his place and when they came he
left them to leave the possessions to
give them back because some people will
say you know what he set up he was in it
for uh robbing caroan these things so
I'm setting up to she because you're an
attorney and we see what's his motive
Behind these things his motive is
calling the people to goodness calling
them to worship one God we see that what
his name was the trustworthy his
nickname the possessions when he had a
chance at a time of War they're trying
to K him kill him plotting to
assassinate him he leaves someone there
to give him their possessions back what
kind of man does this a man from God a
messenger from God so when we look at
things in their proper context when
someone comes at this sincerely and he
really wants to get close to God they'll
see that just as Jesus peace be upon him
was the way the true and the light
nobody at the time of Jesus could get to
God you had to go through him meaning he
had the teachings he had the blueprint
what are you going to make it up on your
own you know better than Jesus who had
the authority power of attorney he said
by the permission of
God I
make the dead come to life look at that
by the permission of God I healed the
sick he was the one that you had to
emulate you had to follow him Moses the
same thing the last and final messenger
he's the way the truth and the light to
God you can't do it on your own how you
going to have your opinion I got mine so
when you when you when you look at these
things it starts to fit it makes sense
you can't help but submit well let me I
want to I want to focus on the woman
topic but let me just mention one thing
and then let's we'll do it in reverse
order first we'll talk about women then
we'll come back to this but it this very
briefly there if you look at some hot
spots around the globe uh and I'm going
to name a couple of them and some of
them I'm Christian I'm Catholic and I've
learned more about I'm not of Middle
Eastern Heritage but I've learned more
about the Middle East and I'm going to
name a couple places where uh Christians
are getting oppressed and killed
sometimes by Muslims I've gotten some
reports recently that in mosul in
Northern Iraq that both kurd Sunni Shia
uh uh the one thing they seem to be
agreeing on is that there's some murders
and pushing out of Christians in uh in
mosul which can be Assyrians or calans
uh or Orthodox uh Etc of of ancient
Christian communities um but just a
couple you're from India I know that at
one time the lauba was taken over by um
I believe what are termed Kashmir
separatist so you have um Muslim versus
Hindu in India um and just as this is
Hindu atrocity in orisa um that many
Christians and I think I believe Muslims
also are being persecuted by Hindu
nationalists and before India was a
fairly tolerant country Hinduism by its
Nature has some uh at least theoretical
tolerance but there are Christians being
persecuted in in India same thing in
Sudan um chetna which I know it's a
complex situation because both the
Orthodox Russian as well as communism
was very harsh on the Muslim Chetan but
there was takeovers of school so um
Sudan where there's some great
atrocities maybe bordering on genocide
uh slavery that you you see that around
the world there's a great deal of
turmoil so you said how many so in a
number of the places there are Muslims
whether or not they're practicing
authentic Islam I don't know uh so that
could be debated but at a number of
places of the world there's great
turmoil where there are Muslim people
sometimes the victims and sometimes the
perpetrators but what I want to do is
let's discuss that at the end what I
want to do is reverse the order of our
discussion just as a response to you and
discuss what is the role of women in
Islam
the hijab and and or the bab because I
know there's some different hijabs the
uh polygamy um and those related issues
and either of you could start sure
that's a very good topic and you have
covered like so many different subtopics
in that so women is the women is the
general topic then is General topic yeah
okay alhamdulillah Prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him he mentions that women
are twins of men that means you know
they are equal level in the eyes of God
so that itself should dispel many
misconceptions that people may have
about suppression of women and torture
you know and all of those things
okay when it comes to the women in Islam
we should again put in the context of
where they were before Islam came in and
what Islam did to them before Islam was
revived in Mecca in Saudi Arabia the
status of women were just like
properties like animals they used to be
abused and oppressed and buried alive
newborn baby girls were buried alive
that's how much you know jahia uh you
know ignorance that they were about
giving rights to
women so but when Islam came Islam
uplifted the
women not just Muslim women all women to
the status of a male they were taken as
you know
right they were given their own rights
they were given the right to vote the
right to property the right to keep
their maiden name after they get married
the right to work if necess necessity
arrives and they were given the right to
express themselves and to better the
society so they were all the way at the
bottom and Islam uplifted them all the
way up there and this is at a time when
all throughout the world the situation
was the same
so if you compare the rights Islam gave
to women compared to the rights that are
they are given in this country now Islam
was far ahead by 1400 years a question
to you Frank would be when did women
over here won the right to vote
1900s yeah 1920s or so 1920 1,400 years
before that Islam gave women the right
to vote when did the some countries
today that claim to be authentically
Islam where you have the how you call
hij Med and Mecca the holy places in
Saudi Arabia only recently have there
even been discussions of women's right
to vote women cannot drive in Saudi
Arabia women could not vote in Saudi
Arabia and these are the custodians of
Mecca and Medina right again we are
comparing cultural Islam to the
authentic Islam which is present in the
Quran and in the example of prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him okay
culturally people could do many things
one of the things that you have brought
up you know genital mutilation and all
of those that's not part of Islam yes
and I I recognize that at the beginning
that my my understanding and my very
limited research on it is that these are
cultural tribal customs um that are
pre-islamic or
non-islamic we we we got to make one
note again Islam Muslim Islam is perfect
it's a perfect system a way of life that
if one implements it from A to Z
everything no guess work what God wants
you to do everything's there Muslims
today I would say more than 50% of them
don't even pray they don't establish the
first pillar of Islam if you're not
establishing the first basic pillar of
praying five times a day what do you
think a lot of the rest of the things
you're neglecting so again Islam Muslims
let's take the perfect if I have a
mercedesbenz this is a great car not for
if I put some idiot behind the wheel he
crashes it I'm going take it out on the
car let's put the best driver behind
that car and the best driver for Islam
is the last and final messenger the
prophet Muhammad peace be upon him let's
see how he lived Islam that's what we go
by an analogy Frank that I could give
because in some from the medical field
suppose if you have a
medication an example comes to my mind
would be like
CRA recently they have found out in the
last 3 4 years even though that
medication for is for pain arthritis and
stuff the side effect of that medication
it it causes some heart problems M all
right so that was you know propagated by
the media all over the place and the
sales of that medication it plummeted
all the way
down right now Islam media all over the
place they are against Islam they are
propagating many different you know
negative aspects against
Islam so a logical thing would be Islam
the followers of Islam or the conversion
of Islam would be reduced correct
suppose if I advertise Pepsi out there
day in and day out a television
advertisement all the bad effects of
Pepsi to the heart and to the mind to
the society at large would you think the
sales of Pepsi would go up or
down I understand it should go down
right so despite that fact that even
though there's a negative propaganda
coming by different sources against
Islam
logically Islam Muslim the numbers
should go down however we find that when
people when they are curious about Islam
where they are studying Islam from the
authentic sources and not from the media
we find that they are coming to realize
that this is the truth and because of
that the numbers of Muslims in the world
and the number of convergence to Islam
it's rising up making it the fastest
growing faith on the top of it since we
are on the topic of women in Islam if it
were true that Islam suppresses women
that means there should be no conversion
of women to Islam or minimum conversion
of women to Islam what do the statistics
prove right now out of every three women
convert to Islam only one male converts
to Islam that means there are
75 of the women converting to out of the
people converting to Islam 75% of those
are women Caucasian women intellectuals
and
professors people using their mind in
studying the Quran and realizing that
the rights that God has given to them so
that is what Islam is okay well I can
recognize the general mutilation is not
part of Islam but this Islam condemn it
is Islam teaching those people let's say
in Africa that are doing General
mutilation or in Afghanistan where
there's some deviations does it go
do Muslims say this is condemned it
should not take place yeah it is mostly
cultural what they are doing and that
genital M mutilation according to my
research it is not Just Happening by
Muslims it is also Happening by
Christians to Christians so let's just
make that thing clear that it's not just
Muslim culture it's also Christian
culture in those countries but my
understanding is that Christianity which
maybe has more of a central Authority
let's say the Catholic Church uh the
Pope in Rome has very clearly said that
genal m is against the principles of
Christianity and there's people medical
doctors like yourself that have gone out
and said no don't do this sure Muslim
Scholars have done the same even though
it's not brought out in the media even
though we don't have like a central
Khalifa like the way in the past however
we have lots of Scholars and lots of
imams and lots of leaders and they have
condemned it okay now I'm glad you
brought that up so you don't have a
magisterium let's say like you have in
cism or a pope or uh you know and then
there's different heads of different
however you do have the grand Muti in
Cairo certain universities you have
certain uh imams that have a certain
high place in different either countries
or with different sects um you know in
Shia Islam you have Naf and uh Kum and
certain centers of of Shia Islam or
certain universities that are as old as
is in um the great University in
so and then I remember we had um IM
ibraim Zam on and he said that and his
degree he had from Professor to
Professor from you know almost to the
time of prophet muhammmad or maybe
hundred years after um the the the
lineage as they would say lineage um as
they would say so who are some of the
key teachers in Islam that one should
listen to
well there are many in different
countries okay over here in North
America we have many different or very
you know Scholars of very high stature
Dr Jamal badawi comes to mind okay then
in Egypt itself use ofi comes to mind in
India you have uh use of isahi comes to
mind so you have scattered Grand muties
you know many different places in
Jerusalem there's a grand Muti Jerusalem
in Austria Australia in Africa in India
all over the place we have religious
Scholars however they don't have the
authority unlike Pope to change what is
in the Quran and in the Sunnah of the
Prophet yeah see the beauty of Islam is
even though we may not have the Khalifa
present right now we have the same sorts
which was given to Prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him if I need to find
something for my own guidance as a
father as a medical doctor or maybe as a
leader of a country I could go there and
I could find out but the guidance it
seems that that may be true however
there are different interpretations I
know there have been contrary
interpretations by different muftis and
imams and the issue of suicide bombings
that some uh well-respected muftis have
said that if the people are being
oppressed the the idea of a suicide bomb
could be allowable others have said no
that some even in Saudi Arabia very
well-known muftis have said that some of
what Osama bin lden is doing is good
that it's fighting against uh you know
um the non-muslim the the Infidel and
some have said not so there is some
contradictory uh issues uh coming out
there there has been some fatwas against
certain individuals and certain other
muftis that saying no they should not
have near fatwa one example comes to
mind in India since you you're since
you're Indian was the the issue of smon
rushi and the fatwa against him um to
take his life because of his um his his
books that he WR we uh to uh mention you
mentioned some of the uh uh learned
people you have here in Chicago you have
at the Muslim Community Center we have
uh shik ibraim zadan you have Dr Bal
Phillips you have a former Christian
preacher shik yusf Estus you have yaser
cardi you have uh so many different I've
had some conversations I think he's in
naville now but uh Sheik Sheik um
abdurahman no Fel hamuda yeah fisel
hamuda and then um there's one shik
although it's
AAS that somewh criticized because of
the Palestinian question um especially
with the issue of Hamas Sheik Jamal from
the bridge M so we have these learned
men at the Deans show.com they have
their sections you go on and we discuss
all these issues Jihad women in detail
in great detail now we have this
blueprint what people do outside of the
blueprint that's a different situation
we have the verbatim word of God we have
the traditions and sayings authenticated
we have what no other way of life has
from a B to C linked to the prophet
peace be upon him who this man was how
he lived his whole biography if the
person started losing his memory it's
called a weak Hadith
if everything links up all the way to
the prophet peace be upon him it's
accepted as authentic so we have this
and how the people during his time his
companions Abu Bakr sadik
alian these were his companions may God
be pleased with them and Grant them
Jenna these were the people who
knew and implemented Islam at that time
so we have when people mention
interpretation a or whatnot according to
your desires hold on we have a problem
but if they stick and they provide us
because Islam is based on evidence Islam
is not just based on following someone
blindly if the evidence is there if this
person for instance Dr BL Phillips or
shik ibraim zadan or Dr zachar Nike or
shik yusf Estes these people are the
scholars people who have studied this
day and let me uh break in because we
only got a couple minutes and I do want
to get to the issue of before we close
and we certainly have to have another
show because it's very interesting
topics but there are contradictory
hadiths are there not no no if okay
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him not
only he received the guidance from God
in the form of the Quran whatever that
he used to utter to guide Humanity his
own sayings but indirectly they were
also coming by God because since he was
the role model and they were indirectly
coming from God no authentic Hadith are
going to contradict each other or with
the Quran well you could say they're
authentic but there are other hadiths
you
have um from the followers of Ali very
early on in the history of Islam and you
do have Hadi from allegedly from
different companions well then we have
to provide or you have to provide you
know two different Hadi then we have to
examine it because you know it's a very
big topic the preservation of the had
and the authenticity how you do it so we
have to have both of those together and
some of those are what do you call it
abolished or they were like in the
transition phase you know uh AB
abrogation the concept of abrogation
come we only got about a minute left
very briefly and we have to do more
shows on this tell us about hijab or
they say in Afghanistan the burka this
sure okay Islam says modesty and modesty
is not limited to only what you wear
what you speak what you hear what you
touch how you walk all of those are in
the concept of modesty modesty is for
both males and females okay one of the
ways to to be modest is what you dress
and how you dress okay it cannot be
tight you have to cover things which are
you know beautiful especially for ladies
for male you're we also supposed to be
having some way of modesty too okay
number one number two wearing hijab if
it's
oppression then the Christian Catholic
nuns are they also oppressed then you
have uh Mother Teresa she used to be
very modest was she oppressed then you
have the mother of Jesus peace be upon
them she used to be very modest we don't
see her you know in the things that we
seeing today's women she was also modest
she was also wearing the hijab so bottom
line is Islam to preserve the Chastity
of the person and for the society give
us the guidance to be modest and modesty
is not just clothing it covers all
different aspect both for males and for
females Dr sabil that's all the time we
have I do want to bring you guys back on
and talk to more about some of these
issues uh Eddie raznovich at the Deen
show.com and Gracie jiujitsu and Dr
sabil with ikna and he's a medical
doctor uh thank you for being on our
show thank you for and to our viewing
audience thank you for watching I hope
it was educational and I hope that we
all can learn to coexist and be tolerant
and uh learn about each other goodbye
and God bless