is alhamdulillah alum peace be with you
I'm made your host you're watching the
dean show that's right and thank you for
tuning in alhamdulillah we got a great
exciting program for you today we got
not only one we're going to do something
different we're going to take it outside
of the dean show studio and not only do
we have one two three but four exciting
guests for you that's right four the
more to marrier so when we come back not
only do we have John lukman Musa
Jeremiah we got a former Christian
Catholic former atheists and they're
here to share their story so we can all
benefit that's right we're going to go
and talk with them take you to the
session with them and then hopefully God
willing you can benefit you can benefit
and learn so much from their experiences
we'll be right back don't go anywhere
for this week's exciting show stay tuned
this is the
the
the this
the this is the is
the
the this is
the this is the this is
the alhamdulillah it's a blessing in a
tree today that we have not only one but
we got three and then one inshallah God
willing will be arriving soon so let's
get right into it for those that don't
know about the dean show please at the
end come get one of the cards and you
can get our website here you can follow
us on the Twitter like us on the
Facebook and keep up with all of our
updates and our
programs so we have John lman and shik
Musa Salam
alikum thank you Brothers I'm honored to
have you guys to be with you so let's
get right into it people want to know
they're here you know why with all of
the negative stereotypes all of the
misconceptions about Islam people would
think that people would be running away
from Islam but we have a former
atheist we have uh two former Catholic
Christians and they're Muslim now
they've chosen to submit not to the
creation but to the Creator tell us a
little about yourself let's start from
the my uh from the right coming down to
the to the left go ahead please assalam
alaikum
everybody hey my name is luk man and uh
so uh Zay already introduced me you
already know a little bit about me um so
what was the question again tell us a
little bit briefly about yourself oh
briefly about myself okay so I'm a
former atheist um I just moved to
Chicago uh I uh I took my shahada um a
little bit more than a year ago actually
in China in Beijing China um and so um
how brief exactly that's good
okay was I mean I can go on forever but
I
mean my name is mus suang uh I was born
and raised in San Diego California I be
I became Muslim back in 1998 my parents
are from the Philippines and I was
raised in the Catholic Family but again
I became Muslim back in
1998 asalam
alikum uh so my name is John Smithers
and uh I I was born and raised Catholic
you know I did the uh baptized confirmed
and did everything like that but then I
uh um I took my shahada in October of
2012 here at UIC on on the UFC campus
and
um well you know it it it's it really it
really started with uh you I I took I
took a class uh here at UIC and uh I I
had been searching for religion
searching for uh a truth a higher truth
or higher purpose in my life or
something like that for for a while and
I took a class here at UIC and I real it
was a sociology religion class I've been
stud studying sociology for the past 10
years and and I and but in this class
our Professor would come in and he would
talk about uh you know being at church
and and and enjoying the sermon and and
and and I never realize that like you
could be a scientist and a Believer at
the same time so so actually taking that
class and seeing my professor coming in
talk about his faith actually inspired
me to realize that that you know uh
science and religion are aren't mutually
exclusive that that I could be a a
social scientist and a Believer at the
same time so we have our we have our
fourth panelist alikum please introduce
yourself for our audience Alum my name
is Jeremiah I'm an assistant professor
here at UIC in the department of
mechanical thank thank you all for being
with us so we got four now alhamdulillah
what a treat
four and let's get it you mentioned Shah
now not only for the people that are
here alhamdulillah soon people be
watching this all over the globe and
some people are like okay because
there's a lot of not yet Muslims those
people that don't know about Islam so
everybody has the potential to submit to
the Creator not the creation they heard
this word sh can you tell us what what
what does this mean when one takes the
shahada Mah the the shahada it literally
means a test a testimony and islamically
it's referring to the testification of
faith it is the first pillar of Islam as
Islam has five pillars but the first and
foremost of those five pillars is the
shahada again the testification of faith
now Shah comes from an Arabic word which
means to see to
witness I saw something but one of the
unique things about the shahada it's a
testification of your belief in Allah
and your belief of the one God although
we've never seen God but we say this
word which is I bear witness that I have
witnessed literally I bear witness that
I have W that I bear witness in the
Oneness of God even though we've never
seen God and there's an indication here
that you're faith should be even more
powerful and stronger than what you see
with your eyes that when God has
revealed something that that takes
precedence even over our senses and the
things that we might know with our mind
and our intellect and most of the time
anyways the Commandments are in
accordance and there you can reconcile
it with things of logic but at the end
of the day Faith is something which is
unseen and when you say the shahada
although it literally means to see we've
never seen God but we believe in that
and there's an indication there that
what we believe is is even stronger than
what we see with our eyes and the second
part of the shahada is to testify that
Muhammad is the messenger of God so
again even though we've never met
Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him
we testify that he is a messenger so so
we can clearly say that we agree to
worship nothing not a stick not a stone
not a bone not a man not a woman but the
creator of all these things that's it
that's correct period period
alhamdulillah so everybody's agreed to
that doctor can you tell us professor
what fascinated you about Islam please
tell us um first let me apologize for
being late um sorry for
that I think
um I think I started to become Muslim
actually in church as a as a kid
probably around 8 or N9 years
old so um like uh we used to be in
church a lot like we we belong to what
they call Holy Rollers so you go to
church like many many days a week you
spent a lot of hours there so during the
time that I was in church I used to
spend a lot of time reading the Old
Testament because there's a um a book in
the Old Testament that's named after
Prophet Jeremiah who I was named after
and so I read a lot about the Old
Testament and reading about the Old
Testament the prophets of the Old
Testament it seemed like to be this big
discontinuity between the Old Testament
and the New Testament excuse me so I
think my first uh like understanding of
what Islam was what really grapped me
was that it was continuous like from the
prophets from those prophets in the Old
Testament all the way to Muhammad sahu
was let's go with lman and mus tell us
you have some unique names tell us now
what made you choose these names and
tell us about the people that you're
named after let's start with you lukom
please okay so um actually unlike most
Chinese Americans I didn't actually have
a western name I was never given a
western name you see like Chinese
Americans on campus they got names like
you know Jake and Steve and Dave right
actually I I I went with my Chinese name
my whole life I it's Luman which
actually literally translates as long
road um spelled l u m an so actually
what had happened was when I when I was
in Africa I was in I was in Ghana Africa
I I noticed that actually um there are a
lot of African men that had the same
name as me um and so they they their
names were luk man um and so I actually
actually my mentor Dr Muhammad Amin
actually he he kind of introduced me to
Islam and so I opened up the Quran and I
noticed that the 31st chapter of the
Holy Quran was named lukman it was it
was my name but with a q in it um so I
mean you know I I I listened to a lot of
Tupac Shakur when I was in college you
know I mean from Tupac Shakur I started
listening to to Malcolm X and after
hearing Malcolm X's Story I mean I I I
just really wanted to to take my shahada
um my name is Musa but um my legal name
is actually Edwin so next thing you see
me you can say shik Edwin right but um
like Eddie kind of but um uh Musa is the
Arabic name for Moses and it's named
after the prophet Moses may peace and
blessings be upon him um how did I get
that name the night I took my shahada we
went back to a friend of mine's place
and he had a poster on his wall of the
family tree of the prophets so it had a
lineage is we know that the prophets you
know from Adam to Noah to Abraham Jacob
you or Joseph and um Jesus and Muhammad
peace be upon all of them they all come
from the same lineage so they had this
family tree with all these different
names and he also had a poster of the 99
names of God the 99 attributes of Allah
and they told me basically you know you
should try to pick a name now an Arabic
name that you can go by in the Muslim
Community so you can either pick Abdul
something or you can pick a name of a
prophet these are like really good names
so my cousin was trying to get me to
pick Abdul w
and so it was actually between Abdul and
M and Mah Allah put in my heart that I
wanted to select this name Musa which is
after the prophet Moses and taking the
names of the prophets is a virtuous
thing as you can hope to take on their
qualities and the prophet sallahu alaihi
wasallam peace and blessings be upon the
prophet Muhammad he said name your kids
with the names of the prophets so it's a
good thing to to name yourself after
prophets in hopes to follow their way
[Music]
when I embraced Islam from that day on I
knew I never wanted to drink another
drink in my life I never wanted to smoke
I never wanted to H my
body because I realized that it was a
blessing you know to be able to see life
from the perspective of Islam because
it's like a lens that clarifies life for
you and so I started seeing the clarity
of life and I said this is what I've
been looking for all my life now all I
have to do is live up to it
do you want to know what makes a
knowledge grow then everybody watch the
de
show are you
ready
ready if there is something you to know
if there is something you to know sit
right back and watch Dean show the dean
[Music]
show tell us John moving along tell us a
little bit about your past life you
mentioned that you were also involved in
the past in the history you
alhamdulillah now you're you're you're
looking to aieve uh Great Heights
getting your PhD but we all you know go
through uh things that now we we we
learn from we gain experiences and
you've actually you were a former gang
member okay so you were also Catholic
were you practicing Christianity at that
time so I want to see we want to see
what was the contrast of what you used
to believe before and how did you was uh
Catholicism was that something that was
a regular part of your life because
obviously it's like you know opposite
you know you'll still see some gang
bangers they wear the cross and still
you know do maybe some shootings but the
was that did you wear the cross when you
were doing like uh Dy buys uh I well you
know I I I I did wear a cross and it was
uh it was a cross and it was a a thread
a handmade cross and and it was the
colors of the gang that I wore uh so you
would you consider yourself religious
spiritual at that time uh
no Our Gang had our own prayer you know
the gang I was in I don't I don't want
to mention the name but it's a Chicago
gang and we had our own prayer and we
had our own literature and our own our
own way of believing our own things to
believe in yet at the same time uh
everyone it uh predominantly was from a
Catholic or a Christian background you
know so so there was like a mixing of
you know uh Christianity with with with
uh you know a belief in the gang itself
you know but
um but but yeah I I wasn't I I wouldn't
say that I was I was very religious at
the time I mean I was I was raised
Catholic and I was born and raised I was
born into the religion you know and and
and I went to a Catholic School uh for
eight years but it was in between that
it was in that summer in between eighth
grade and nth grade nth grade year
whenever I was recruited into the gang
you know so I was 13 years old and you
know and at at 13 you know you don't
know much you know and and so
um so no I I just kind of um
I became a follower you know and and and
it wasn't until you know uh you know 10
or so years later you know I'm getting
older I'm 19 20 years old you know and
I'm still on the streets still gang
banging still doing this type of stuff
you know and and and and actually one of
my other uh friends who was uh in the
same gang he he sat me down he was like
you know I think he was getting ready to
go off to the military himself and and
he was like you know uh you could either
you could either continue to uh be in
the gang and continue to wear their
colors and and and let you know follow
uh these other people basically you
could continue to be a follower or you
could go off and and and start your own
you know thing you know Do Your Own
Thing be a leader you know and and start
your own life and so at that point
that's that's uh what I did and and so I
didn't get out of the gang because you
never really uh get out of gangs uh but
um uh was it like Blood In Blood Out for
the most part yeah yeah and and uh and
so so I didn't get out but I but I
stopped I stopped going around you know
and I stopped hanging out with these
guys you know and I kind of started to
do my own thing and and uh you know got
interested in in school and and and
education and stuff like that so so how
did you why didn't you just stick with
what your parents were from the Catholic
background what made you how what
fascinated you about Islam well Islam
didn't come around until you know so so
so you know I for the past i' say for
the past 10 or so years I've kind of
been religious list you know I've I've
uh or or or even even closer to even
kind of like a pagan I would say you
know the the sun and the moon was the
God and the goddess and and there was
this equality thing going on you know in
my mind and and so uh yeah so it's been
had been a quite a while you know since
I had uh practiced any kind of Christian
beliefs or anything like that but um and
so the way it all the way I came to
Islam it was so strange you know my mom
always told me that uh you know God
works in mysterious ways you know and
and and masah it's like how I came to
Islam was was so strange I I I it
started off I I just started a I bought
a a Macbook you know and I had access to
iTunes and I was like oh okay and uh on
the iTunes was the iTunes radio and I
started listening to the iTune radio and
I found uh classical Persian music on
there and I was like wow this is really
good stuff so I started listening to
this and I would leave it on every night
you know i' kind of uh leave it on while
I slept and then one thing led to
another I I was like you know I want to
see some YouTube video I want to see
someone playing these instruments so I I
typed in you know this this music on
YouTube but in the suggested video
section was like uh lectures for like uh
she Hamza YF you know and the and these
other lectures and so I was like well
you know I so I clicked on the suggested
videos area and so I started listening
to these lectures you know along with
still listening to the music you know
and then um uh and and somehow or
another I ended up on on a calligraphy
website and and I was looking you know
it's so it's so it's this strange like
uh series of events that happened that
led me to Islam and and that's why I say
you know like I didn't really the event
is how I how I chose Islam I don't feel
like I chose Islam but but Allah chose
me to be a believer instead you know and
and of course I had to profess my belief
in Allah and and and in his Oneness and
and the prophet Muhammad peace be upon
him
but I you I didn't choose to be a Muslim
you know Allah chose for me to be a
Muslim and so and so uh this is really
strange I was looking at this
calligraphy website and and and I seen
calligraphy it was in farsy and it was
in uh Arabic and and I didn't know the
difference between the two but I liked
uh what it looked like and I had no idea
what it said I just liked how it looked
like and and uh and so I saved the image
and I put it on my desktop you know and
and uh several months go by and uh I'm
in an intro to Sociology class I'm a TA
there you know and it's 300 students in
the class and uh uh and this one Young
Brother walked up to me and he was about
to ask me a question about class until
he seen my desktop and he was like oh
are you a Muslim bro and I was like uh
no but you know I'm kind of interested
in it you know and and they completely
spaced out his question for class and he
just started going into like talking
about Islam and talking about the MSA
here on campus and there's all kinds of
Muslims here on campus and you know that
I should get involved and stuff like
that and and uh and I asked him I was
like what is I was like what what made
you ask me that and he said he looked at
my desktop and and it said it was the
shahada on my desktop and I had no idea
what it was I I I was just drawn to this
image for some reason I was drawn to
these to these words you know and and
and after that like uh you know it was
history I I I contacted the MSA I had no
idea what an MSA what even was you know
I contacted the MSA here I contacted
some brothers from the MSA and and and
and before long you know within you know
within a couple weeks of that brother
coming up to me and asking me if I was a
Muslim I had taken sh here in our in our
Campus Library Mah alhamdulillah tell us
uh Professor when you see Islam we know
that Islam is sent as a mercy to the
world it's a peaceful way of life you
know calling a human being to have peace
with their creator peace with themselves
and peace with Humanity but when you see
it malign the way it is through the
media and the misrepresentation of it
you know Fox News Etc how does this make
you feel actually uh
I started having these conversations
with friends uh probably the week of 911
uh I think 911 was like on a Tuesday
um and like that Friday we went to jumra
and one of my good friends he's uh he's
Egyptian he told me now I understand
what it's like to be black I was like
wow just 3 days that's all it
took so like the the way that I look at
uh What Muslim what Muslims are going
through it's just a continuation of what
other groups that have gone through that
came to America so I I don't really put
a lot of uh stop into the like the the
sentiment that they don't like us
because of our religion like I think
it's the same old bigotry racism uh
Prejudice that
African-Americans they they had to we
had to deal with the Jewish Community
Irish people uh Chinese immigrants that
helped build the West uh the Mexicans
indigenous people that were here so I I
don't I don't think that it's um uh that
different so I think the challenge for
us as Muslims is one we have to
recognize that and the second thing we
need to do is we need to look at what
other people have done that made it
easier for us to practice Islam Today
and and a lot of them were not Muslims
and the third thing that we need to do
is like make sure that if we see
oppression like of other people in the
society that we do something about that
and I think you will see that there are
natural allies in America people who are
not even interested in Islam that want
to make sure that we can practice our
religionallah John tell us uh I'm sorry
lman L man tell us what has been some of
the challenges after accepting Islam
that you faced um actually I I'm
actually very surprised cuz it wasn't
that challenging it wasn't that
challenging a lot of people uh complain
about how their families are not really
understanding of their of their shahada
uh but in you know mashallah my my
family has been very supportive um and
actually it was the the transition for
was actually pretty natural for me
because you know I'm a racial minority
and you know Muslims had at least in
America there's a history of Islam
actually Standing Up Against Racism so
that was that was a very natural
transition for me and also uh within the
Muslim Community most a lot of us are
immigrants you know and I I'm I I myself
I was born in China I'm I'm an immigrant
too so actually uh just just you know
Muslims stand up for immigration rights
you know and and uh so I mean those two
things being an immigrant and being a
racial minority actually made the
transition very easy for me as a Chinese
American and uh I I I really like um
what John said mashallah about how
actually uh I didn't choose Islam Allah
subhah wa ta'ala chose me uh so I mean I
I felt like I I really connected to what
you said because actually you know who
who who opens up the Quran and sees
their name you know I mean I I feel like
I I felt like that Allah definitely had
a plan you know I mean it's it was just
beyond my control certainly uh you know
whatever happens is all part of the
Creator's plan Mah sh mus tell us now
for the viewing audience the not yet
Muslims they're hearing these Arabic
words and they heard one of them Allah
can you go ahead and describe when we
talking about Allah so someone thinks
like this this is a moon God maybe some
foreign God that you're talking about
describe what what do we when we say
Allah what do we mean when we say the
word Allah Allah it basically is the
Arabic word for the one true God with a
capital G right so so um this the most
beautiful name of God and we may use
words and we'll try to be a little bit
better about that maybe using some
non-arabic words for the viewing AUD
audience inshallah but otherwise Allah
it's the it's the one God that um every
Prophet came and preached about so if
it's Spanish you or Tagalog you might
say Jos if it's English you'll say God
and if it's Arabic you say Allah so
Allah is not a moon God it's not a you
know a statue or it's not in a desert or
a camel or something like that Allah
forbid right but it is the the way and
the word that is used in the Arabic
language for the one true God which is
why you'll also find Christians who are
Arab Christians they also say Allah and
they believe in Allah because Allah
means God so we use Allah because Arabic
is the the the the language the univ
universal language that bonds all of us
together um otherwise it does mean the
one true God now you as as as following
the way of Jesus MSA Moses they all
submitted to the one God they were all
Muslims so they weren't submitting to
the creation but to the Creator and
you've chosen to do that you've chosen
to be a Muslim following the path of all
these uh Messengers that came so tell us
now what were some of the challenges
that you faced you accepted back uh in
'98 correct uh you've obviously had a
lot of experience since then is there
any that you like to share with us that
we can benefit from yeah I mean Subhan
Allah I was one of those who did go
through challenges right um it wasn't
always easy but the biggest challenge
that I faced was not necessarily from
the community because or the society
because it was still pre 911 um but it
was from my family Filipinos are very
tightened family very family oriented so
this was very threatening to them and
they had a lot of fear that perhaps this
would cause a rift and break up our
family so my mother and my father before
we even became Muslim they were very
much against the thought that we would
convert our religion and it became a
family affair because my brother my
elder brother by about 18 months a year
and a half older than myself um and my
cousin all of us were learning about
Islam so it became a family affair it
wasn't something just myself was going
through but aunts and uncles got
involved why were you why were you
learning about Islam now this is where
it all kind of happens I mean you know
long story short
um I was a freshman at the University
right and um it's at that time when you
I was about 19 years old your mind
starts maturing um you know
intellectually you start wanting to know
the why behind things and as opposed to
just accepting things for what they are
so I started to question um my first
five my first semester actually I had a
philosophy class and um the first five
weeks of that class was about heaven and
hell and you know and about Jesus peace
and blessings be upon him and you know
we were raised to believe in heaven and
hell and Hereafter but we never really
thought about it it was always made to
appear like it was mythology like a
bedtime story you know but um at that
point my professor said imagine having
everything that you ever desired all of
your pleasures fulfilled for all of
eternity and that's heaven now imagine
putting your hand on the stove that pain
that you feel on your hand impose upon
all of your body for all of eternity and
that's hell so you know I believed in it
but I never thought about it like that
and at that moment it started to become
kind of real and I thought to myself at
that point that if there's a heaven I
don't if there's a heaven that's where I
want to go and if there's a hell I don't
want to go there and um one thing led to
another um I also got exposed to Islam
I'm going to give you the short version
got exposed to Islam and I thought it
was interesting of all the world
religions I was the only one that made
sense to me um but I didn't know any
Muslims it's not like I wanted to become
a Muslim and it wasn't until I actually
met a Muslim um who was also a Filipino
brother that was a convert um from the
Bay Area his name was Eugene um we
didn't know he was Muslim but he started
hanging out with our group and there
were some things which were different
about him and um you know he was he had
a clean life and one day we were in a
conversation and he had different views
on things so one of my friends I think
it was asked him one night that you know
what denomination are you CU I don't
think you're Catholic then he said he
was a Muslim he said he was a Muslim and
it really caught us you know it it took
us back I mean surprised us caught us
off guard and then
um I had learned about Islam and I
thought it was interesting but here he
is he's a Muslim and he has you know ni
perspective on things so um he got close
with us and one of my best friends he
ended up getting really close to him he
took his shahada first and about two
months after that my brother took his
shahada and the day after my brother
took shahada my cousin took shahada so
whereas before I didn't know any Muslims
even though I thought it was interesting
now I'm in a carload of Muslims right
and they're all talking about Allah and
Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him
um so it was right there in my face and
um I started actually I don't know if it
was arrogance or Pride but you know when
I started feeling left out that here
they are doing this new lifestyle
adopting this new lifestyle and I'm
still doing my thing so I started
playing like The Devil's Advocate and I
actually started arguing you know with
them about Islam and questioning
everything and I said to myself you know
if they're going to be good Muslims I'm
going to become a good Catholic and I
started practicing things that you know
that they were saying we should do but
we didn't necessarily learn we were
supposed to do but we knew it was good
and I tried to practice like like them
but as a Catholic um but it got to the
point one night where my brother came up
to me and he asked do you believe in the
things that we say and I said yeah and
then he asked do you believe Jesus Is
God I said
no and he said then what's holding you
back and I gave him some foolish answer
that I don't even remember what I said I
was just trying to justify it and I I
honestly I can't even tell you what I
said cuz I don't remember what I said my
brother looked at me confused and just
walked away and said whatever man but I
went to bed that night and I told myself
tomorrow I'm going to go to the I want
to become Muslim right so this is how it
you know it became a family affair
because my brother he was already Muslim
for about two months at that point and
my cousin and we had actually had to
kind of conceal it we weren't openly we
weren't open about our Islam at that
point um we were still kind of telling
our family we were in a learning stage
and it was very very difficult for them
again because family is very tight knit
it was about keeping the family together
um and that's how it became a family
affair it's it was actually first my
brother Abu Bakr and then my cousin my
cousin Issa who had now reached out to
me and one of my best friends Muhammad
Yahya the three of them as well as
Eugene who is Omar right so they all
mallah were the I guess you can say the
main influences on me in eventually
accepting it but the challenge I faced
was with family but by Allah's Grace you
know it was a fear that they had and as
time passed they openly accepted us
being Muslim because they saw it brought
our family closer together so the
brother who read Quran it talks about
how you have to honor your parents so we
tried to honor them more we tried to
serve them more and it brought our
family closer together if anything and
we tried to serve them more and they um
were completely accepting of our faith
now and alhamdulillah and they even took
their shahada Mah alhamdulillah Don't
Panic now that was half of the interview
we're out of time next week we'll be
back from more God willing so until then
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goodness we'll see you next time for the
rest of their interview with these four
fabulous Brothers on the D show until
then peace be with you