greetings apiece welcome to the Dean
show we have our next guests terrorist
expert columnist journalist CJ wheeler
Minh no stranger to the show coming up
we're going to be bringing you up to
speed on some of the current events that
are happening out there in the world
India China Bosnia and right here at
home and this isn't it this hopefully
can awaken some of the good hearts that
are out there to go ahead and create
more awareness so we can make a good
change for the better
God willing we'll be right back with our
special guest don't go anywhere all
right everybody welcome back to the deed
show we have no stranger to the show CJ
we Lerman journalists Connolly's
columnist for middle east i author of
the new atheist threat
how are you CJ great to have you back on
the program how have you been thank you
for finding the time let's get right
into it how have things been since the
last time we spoke on the rise of any
hate attacks Islamophobia you're
monitoring most of this how is it going
since the last time I think it's almost
been a year has a decreased increased
what's the situation increasing I mean
there's been a spike in hate crimes if
you if you trace back to the breakfast
boat transaction from selection if you
use those two points there's a marker in
time the number of hate crimes against
Muslims in the UK in Europe the United
States and Australia has has increased
precipitously I mean we're living in a
climate of hate and fear I just actually
had a page come out for the TFC world a
couple of days ago which examines and
reveals how Russia now is mobilizing and
trying to unite or internal actual
rubber internationalize the far-right in
the way the far left was
internationalized in the 1960s and the
1970s or is the international
was United we have a common interest in
ending you know European colonialism US
imperialism and ending a putting an end
to cold war-era politics the Russia now
was trying to unite the far right
through Islamophobia and if you see you
look at far-right protests in Europe and
UK Australia or in the United States
you'll see anti-muslim sentiment
anti-muslim science and Muslim banners
as a feature of these March and protests
it really has become you know the glue
which is the uniting these flower groups
across the planet
what's the the end result of this if
this happens do you see it happening and
what's the end result that when it
happens if it happens well really is is
coming into view is a point of the piece
I mean Russia is actively you know
funding far-right political parties and
far-right political candidates all
across Europe it gave a nine million
dollar loan so to speak and call it a
loan but nine million euros rather to
you know look marine the Pens
National Front party now she became she
came within a whisker winning the French
general election last year now it let's
imagine a case where you have some like
marine lepen who was who was openly
Islamophobic openly xenophobic has
borrowed and used the most you know
heinous anti-muslim trope spoken from
the worst most nefarious types within
the Islamophobia industry if you have
these government's come to the power and
then you have another major terrorist
attack which is carried out by Muslim
then you know you're gonna see it a raft
and hosts of any peoples and legislation
passed for these governments whether
that means ID badges whether that means
really education camps like we already
have in China where up to one mean week
and Muslims that are going for these
very education can some force them to
denounce Islam and to force them to
accept that a communist atheist ideology
I mean this these things were within
reach should these far-right political
parties seize power in Western
democratic states talk to us about this
article you did also on the neighboring
state not too far from Russia Bosnia the
former Yugoslavia and it's interesting I
mean you know more and more people to
come to remove my work you know more and
more people reach out to me and asked me
to cover the issues which share the
concern about I would say you know to
top my head in the last six to twelve
months I you know many dozen or maybe a
color dozen people from you know Bosnian
Muslims reach out to me by a Twitter or
our email I've seen you to comment on
the situation there and so I said last
week I was really doing a deep dive into
the current situation I mean I mean it's
not a stretch to say that we you know
we're on the eve of the vote or another
Bosnian Muslim genocide now the risk of
sounding that mean it might sound like a
totally to some but again the Russia is
using the same paramilitary group to use
the new Ukraine the no no wolves barking
in there the Soviet republic would be in
bosnia-herzegovina if you look at the
leaders and a leader of that entity that
Bosnian / petach tikva near-empty
they're openly talking about separating
and created their own Serbian state or
joining Serbia itself you see a lot of
empty Muslim Islamophobia rhetoric which
comes along with that and Russia is
their sowing discord and not only some
discord but also army palettes of a
paramilitary groups and also arming that
Soviet entity will be in
bosnia-herzegovina so it's very
frightening Bosnian Muslims who live in
the Bosnian Muslim in place within the
state yeah you know in Christian world
and a fearful that you know the darkest
days that the history will you know be
revisited upon them so do you feel now
is the evidence showing is it that the
Dayton Peace Agreement is is something
that could potentially just fold yeah
absolutely I mean you know you've got
you know - nationalist or ultra
nationalist sentiment sweeping all
across Europe
and so you know you know Republican
scare has been no you no stranger to
that either so when you have hyper
nationalistic sentiment where you have a
will for people to separate and sort
determine and create their own states
you know at the expense of a another
minority or a neighboring state and you
know dangerous things usually follow so
you know the situation there is
increasingly concerning do you know of
any other country that has in its
country usually you have a prime
minister you have a president one person
that's in charge but people don't know
it's kind of unique to Bosnia you have
three presidents running one country how
does that work it's one nation state
governed by three basically protectors
within those states or three you know
and it is you go to pro identity but a
policy Muslim energy and also the
assuming in cities so you know those you
know the people within each of those
states vote for their own particular
leader but at the end of the day you
really only have one state now that's
fine and finally Danny and it's kind of
worked for the last you know work twenty
twenty-five years to a point but the
problem is now with the subunit of the
Republic of Srpska being on the border
of Serbia it's you know Serbia has made
no secret of the fact that I would like
to claim that territories their own and
also you know and that's why they're
whipping up you know separatist
sentiment within that is this really
possible CJ because so much money has
been invested you have the economy start
I mean things are starting to pick up
you would think people who visit it from
who know the situation from the past if
they go there it seems like everything
has been rebuilt the things are
functioning is this really something
that's that's possible to happen again
yeah I mean unfortunately you cannot
prevent you know political entrepreneurs
who use
separatists and ultra nationalist
rhetoric rhetoric
yeah there demonizes a minority or a
certain ethnic group you know for the
purpose of mobilizing and seizing
political power and so you know in in
that Republic you do have that sentiment
going and people will you know and also
States acting away which is not in their
their best interests you know for the
short-term political gain
it cost of you know the world being your
site going forward is this something
that the US would have any control over
or would allow because the US was there
as the peace keeping force would they
allow something like this to happen well
you know it took a long time before
Clinton you know and intervened there in
fact you were paying leaders turned
their back on the genocide which is
taking place because you know let's be
honest even Muslim lives don't matter
you know in the corridors of European
power so you know they allowed the
slaughter to take place you know there
was a long period of political inaction
I couldn't and was forced at eventually
and he eventually intervened but you
know I mean we now you know Donald Trump
is not Bill Clinton um and we know how
Donald Trump feels about Muslims in the
Muslim world
he's completely different if not hostile
to that now you know you know what
people said you know came to power and I
suppose a non-interventionist promise
and you know and he's he political
bachelor doesn't want you to engage in
foreign military actions
I just wanted to carry on those reaction
all right now but yeah to be honest I
can't predict out drunk would react you
know if I said wow this is uh this is uh
really uh
sad to hear that after all this time
that something like this can erupt again
and one last question one last question
on this topic for the people that don't
know is it true that this was the
greatest genocide that happened after
World War Two in Bosnia against
there yeah exactly I mean it was you
know European second Holocaust Oh your
second Holocaust in the 20th century you
know the you know only you know 40 50
years after the Second World War
so yeah it's you know those those ill
feelings at that communal and sectarian
ill feeling remains in these states but
also it's been you know fueled by these
national sentiments or about the
region one more one more I'm sorry
because you mentioned Holocaust and
that's something obviously you know this
sad tragic event that happened and it's
talked about so much in the essence that
it doesn't repeat again why don't you
hear much about the Bosnian the Muslim
bazan Holocaust that happened against
Muslims so it doesn't repeat again yeah
the world I mean what is what is the
natural community done to to stop Mimas
campaign of ethnic cleansing against you
know 1.2 million Rohingya Muslims oh
nothing what does each enough community
doing against China's ethnically plans
up to the 12 million wigan Muslims at
the moment nothing I mean not only is
the Walsh you know an ego Rwanda
genocide which certainly didn't have
Muslims in both but if you look at the
track record of the international
community stepping in to halt genocide
where the majority of the population is
Muslim
it hasn't been coming we can also look
at Syria what does international
community do to hold you know Assad is
killing of displacing about 12 men
mostly Sunni Muslims in Syria speaking
about you mentioned China talked to us
about some of the things like the GPS
you write about the Jeep the the you
bring in a we're creating awareness
about many things that are going on
there but for people who are ignorant to
what is going on
there's many events unfolding can you
bring us up to speed on that yeah I mean
in the far western region of what is
mainland China its focus on was actually
its own
should state up until 1949 then China
invaded and occupied the region as
occupied you know that part of their
China well what really isn't China has
occupied they just focus on ever since
now for a long period the Chinese
government left we go Muslims in that
region pretty much to see their own but
things have sort of changed in the 1980s
and trying to begin a crackdown to snap
out any effort by Weber Muslims to you
know recreate or throw off the Chinese
occupation I think you had the war on
terror which the US war on terror which
started in 2001 and okay of China a
veneer or a fig leaf to carry out what
it called its own war on terror against
Wigan Muslims in this focused on
conflating you know Wigan Muslim
separatists
ambitions or aspirations we have Islamic
terrorism
so that crackdowns been ever since has
been really enforced
you know it's particularly in the last
in the last decade so much so that we
give Muslims now I cannot exit China
anybody who directs at China is arrested
I've interviewed a number of her wicked
Muslim refugees one in Australia where
his wife and child they try to join me
my favorite he attained his refugee
status in a trailer when they arrived at
the airport she was detained the nine
month old baby was also arrested with
her there once the baby turns one under
Chinese law they will put her into
prison for five years and I am still a
baby on that on the black market
now if it's there that's just one case
of what's happening there and you know
the world is completely fun now for
other weekend Muslims their cell phone
to track this their their cars are
located on GPS tracking devices if they
want to move out of East Turkestan and
maybe go to Beijing or Shanghai then I
have a special permit to do so they're
forced into re-education camps to you
know to force them to dance Islam those
who do not count announces Lemelin
putting to hard labor camps or in prison
for you know up to five to ten years
even weak and Muslim families are forced
to have a Chinese Communist
representative in their home for Chinese
nationalists holidays it's part of
indoctrinating into you know the the
Chinese state ideology
now our women also being I mean it's
this is what will you say a new a
modern-day Inquisition sounds like yeah
it really is
you know what I you know I wrote a story
recently and he's a white Muslim living
in the United States
his wife was detained arrested forced
conversion and in prison she was
tortured
and where she eventually died so and
he's actually trying to sue the Chinese
government he's told me he's already had
to assassinate assassination attempts on
his life one time when you were third in
a Shriner in it just sue the Chinese
government for the Deaf he's like and
then I'm in the US which has reported to
the FBI when I asked the people how
they're trying to carry out his
assassination attempts and he said that
the Chinese government very good
particularly the peculiar intelligence
agencies and making a traffic accident
or making an assassination look like a
traffic accident he believes it two
attempts on his life or we're done in in
that manner I heard women are being
forced not only you said forced
conversions but what to leave Islam are
I heard that they're also being forced
to marry certain in to have forced
marriages to what is the Communist Party
members yeah and there have been stories
marriages she's not exactly sure can
give you the numbers but I have there
anecdotal accounts of that happening but
I mean family has been separated all the
time I mean even now that police Chinese
police in that province have these new
smart glasses so there were these losses
which area Pico
facial written you know identify facial
recognition that feeds back into a
database and that can write identifiers
what a wig in a Muslim on a train on a
box on our plane even walking in the
street and that week Muslim is wanted
for any reason could be a parking
violation and isn't an excuse to make
the arrest force them to re-education
camp and in their process the court
anyway wow this is just so amazing to
hear it's so incredible you can't wrap
your mind you know people are sitting at
home here and enjoying many of the
things that we have we're not thinking
about outside of the box what's going on
in the rest of the world but this isn't
in in our day and age this is actually
happening what can people do what could
people who are who haven't heart I have
a heart they they want to make a change
what could someone do to to speak out
against his whoa what do you suggest
yeah it's very frustrating because I
mean even what keep seeing is not one
single Muslim leader of a
muslim-majority nation state has offered
one word of condemnation of what China
is doing it's a weakened Muslim
population and that's for you know a
very simple reason is trans economic
power is so vast and so strong that so
many nation states have become you know
independent or dependent on the Chinese
economy and they fear that by speaking
out and denouncing what China is doing
in its focus on well you know result in
you know economic punishment a loss of
trade a lots of foreign or Battaglia's
investment in their sakes so the
international community at the nation
state level is completely frozen on the
weekend was long issue and it was really
only left to activists young people who
are making noise about this or actually
Wiggin Muslim refugees who have been
fortunate enough to escape China
tell us are trying to get back to your
question what can we do is yeah it just
make as much noise as possible so you
know I you know so I just speak to
Muslims
bases were completely unfamiliar which
are which is what with what is happening
in any Stokes answer I encourage people
to make noise on social media and more
noise and you know that gets the ball
rolling in you know and hopefully
creating a climate where political
action can follow yes absolutely tell us
about this new sport that you talk about
where Palestinians are building being
killed as as a sport yeah I mean you
know I think too with you guys are like
an eternal number of times because
there's a long time but you know another
journalist documented these thirty years
that you know Israel does shoot
Palestinians to the sport I mean I
haven't witnessed myself but Chris
Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize winning
journalist he was in a refugee camp in
Gaza and about fifteen years ago and he
saw Israeli soldiers play what they're
calling or game of cat and mouse so the
code is refugee camp set up in their
jeeps and over loudspeaker they was you
know say you know your mom's or
we're gonna read through mother you know
stuff like this to entice Palestinian
kids to come and start throwing rocks it
James all their tanks when the
Palestinian kids do that and they return
with live fire he witnessed Palestinian
boy has been killed an increase in his
home disorder you saw when I had him on
my own podcast I am witness at the
videos that we've seen out you know
coming out of the gals it's a great
return much look you know again you know
several months ago I mean I posted a
video yesterday of a Palestinian you
know young man push you you know pushing
a wheel through what is you know the
women gals would be slightly but council
perimeter and will speak talk wise in
Israeli sniper we've seen video type of
merger Israeli snipers high-fiving and
celebrating every time they shoot an
unarmed Palestinian journalist or a
Palestinian medic or a Palestinian kid
or a Palestinian woman and not only that
we we also know also from the 2014 siege
of Gaza there's a hill just outside of
Sidora
and you know just which is just beyond
Gaza itself there's this small rising
Hill is an ideal location where you know
people can pull up a car and watch from
the safety of this cell is Israel uses
live fire against Palestinian protest
and also as you know Israeli you know
warplanes drop their ordnance on on Gaza
it's a real you know that's one of the
secrets of most approved things you'll
ever witness in your life but you know
Kevin Palestinians has big family form
of almost entertainment for even the
Israeli military and also you know that
you know the most part of Iraq
supporters over the Israeli government
and this is another thing that you
advise people to create awareness to
make noise about yeah I mean Palestinian
cause for you know decades now it
doesn't seem very much of a difference
and that's because the United States is
you know Israel's number one protector
and we talk about the United States and
you know all sorts of video on sanctions
actions would have been reports against
Israeli email donations because he works
as a veto power being one of the five
members of the permanent you know one of
the permanent members of the Security
Council action has been stymied and
blocked now political winds are changing
in the United States you know whereas
Democratic the Democratic Party was in
unison in their support for Israel that
is breaking away you know have a visual
in the Democratic Party where you have
the old store so the Nancy Pelosi's and
the Chuck Schumer's established and
Democrats who've been around for a long
time
well I still openly support of Israel
and see ya you know the progressive wing
of the Democratic Party and younger
Democratic voters particularly
Millennials at a breaking away from
Israel and denouncing Israel's
occupation so when you ever see in this
country in the next five to ten years is
a whether the Democratic Party is openly
condemns and opposes the Israel's
occupation of Palestinian territories
and when we get to that point and you
have a democratic government backing in
power you'll see
action against Israel I mean Obama may
actually need Israel right in the very
last few months of used when he
announced the occupation and you know
you ain't free what about Susan Rice so
you know we're stripping away that
support you ever see Israel become a
wedge issue in the national political
level and once that happened it's really
the days of Israeli occupation or none
but what about India the the genocide
alert in India can you bring us up to
speed on what's going on over there yeah
I mean the India it really is like we
let out you know recently you know as a
genocide you have members of India's
ruling party the BJP openly advocating
that killing young Muslims now they if
they're not fitting or or celebrating
those who who you know Hindu miles to
carry out lynchings and murders of
Muslims you know some will go out and
endorse it some more or less say nothing
that you know almost no Indian political
we know figures with an idiot's ruling
government or in ruling party of the
government condemns these attacks will
send a spike of lynchings are happening
now on a daily basis you know the
province in the you know northwestern
part of a candy you have the province of
somewhere Indian effectively wiped off 4
million Muslims of their voter rolls or
citizenship claims and its prime meaning
the citizenship claims and you also have
members of India's ruling party saying
now if they don't leave and go back into
Bangladesh I mean but he's his family's
been there for you know 50 70 100 years
if they don't return to Bangladesh when
Bangladesh met didn't exist back in that
time then Bobby shot and killed you know
so India's you also within India's
ruling party who had what it's called
the Lee RSS which is the world's largest
non-governmental organization and that
organization it is about you know 1.5
million strong and it provides the
political DNA two years ruling party and
within that their rhetoric is a
and we'll they they were impatient India
exclusively into a Hindu fascist site
where there's no room for Sikhs Muslims
Dalits Christians etc a couple more
questions
CJ can you tell us you've just done a
piece also on the coercion of Muslims
turning them into spies here in the u.s.
can you talk about that yeah
reasonably well up until now there's
been instances of the FBI 40 Muslim
Americans or Muslim immigrants into
becoming or the spine is trying to
convince them to spy on Muslim
communities phony image to government
paid informants what has been known
until now is the extend breadth of this
effort I mean every single day the FBI
is walking up from you know knocking on
the doorstep of muslim-owned businesses
Muslim own homes Muslim leased
properties and asking whether Muslims
are prepared or willing to spy on their
friends and family and neighbors the
communities and more important more
specifically its without a target given
so this is a part of a mass surveillance
program now when a Muslim rejects the
offer which in one of the cases are
reported in a minor piece mr. Paramveer
he worked at a like a 99-cent store in
New Jersey
now if the eye is turned up to his place
of business and obviously to you know
become an informer he declined he said
that would go against his religion
principles on his religious faith to spy
on you know fellow Muslim citizens when
he decline and inclusively
embrace youth was in they returned
threatening him that they were changing
even his business basic status or his
residency status or that of his family
members
nothing happened and he left it at that
he didn't hear back from him for several
months many tried to board a flight to
Pakistan Judaism he's a unwell mother
there when he boarded the flock u.s.
immigration refused to do not he pulled
that play he left the airport he called
the FBI and said why Bobby put on a
no-fly list while I was there not
aborting that flight and said well what
a quote you want to know
and so you agree to display our Muslim
communities and I actually I also need a
viewer guy called Nabil Malad was the
Moroccan national he actually
represented anima rockin junior
development squad when he was a teenager
Camp United States when he was 17 on a
student visa and in applied to or a
position on the University of Florida's
socketing he gave with Coach he's his
scouting take which that's the only copy
had wasn't being a chest that was his
pride and joy his whole life is
basically this video - he went to return
several weeks later to take a newspaper
and also ask the coach out you know what
are you probably scouting Taylor cetera
the coach explained that the paper -
gone missing and they lost it and he
gave him a chance to look at okay make
sure all those doses shrugged their
shoulders and said you know what it was
he obviously in a moment of Khitan rage
he he threatened to assault his soccer
coach for losing you know he's the most
important position in life and he was
reported to the FBI now here is a
seven-piece if this if he weren't a
Muslim that story would have stopped
with his side of the bear young man
distressed by the fact he lost something
that wasn't valuable to him I'm not even
sure dinner you know that would have
been the end of the story because your
Muslim is reported to the FBI he was
arrested on terrorism charges is in
prison for I believe about three months
kept in solitary confinement 23 hours a
day
denied they wouldn't refuse determine
which direction of Mecca was their
refuse to allow access to a Koran and in
periodically he believes you know at
least once a week while was in prison
either an editor from the FBI or
Department panelists agree I visit him
trying to coerce him into becoming an
informant and promising he be released
and he's you know they decided upgrade
he like cambiar the earlier example I
gave to denied their request and said I
would run camps we say and so they said
that you'd be deported and sure enough
six weeks later he was put on a plane
and sent back to America where he is
today last time I spoke I believe I
understood that you were studying
extensively this area of terrorism and
and do you see Muslims as being a
national security threat that Muslims
are Islam is producing the most
terrorism or Muslims are to be feared
that there is a growing threat of
Muslims in the United States is this
fact or fiction you know we in a
terrorism academic world subscribe and
what actual politicians put in place as
well as a disconnect between you know
policy and politics so you know but it
plays well politically right now to
demonize Muslims and to put policies in
place which target and discriminate
discriminate against Muslim communities
you you know we've unfortunately you
have these long phobia industry which is
crept into you know law enforcement
agencies like the FBI we know for a fact
that several members of Islamophobia
industry have actually given
presentations on Islam to FBI agents and
in their presentations they you know
will erroneously claimed that Islam is a
gateway to terrorism that there is
something in the Islamic texts and the
scripture will just promoted violent
extremism which clearly it does not so
we these training consultations with
that kind of belief that basically says
that Islam is a gateway to terrorism and
then they might begin viewing every
Muslim as a potential terrorist and we
you know we do our characters and
policies that are currently in place do
kind of subscribe to that belief which
is why we have mass surveillance against
Muslim communities and why law
enforcement agencies they trying so hard
to recruit Muslim informants to spy on
these manatees how can this have gotten
so far based on a lie I mean this is
factually incorrect the statistics don't
show it it's it's totally false you said
it's fiction
how can we get you will not find a
single person I mean I'm doing my I'm
doing an undergraduate degree in
terrorism
I'm doing postgraduate degree in
characters and you will not find a
single individual within the terrorism
academic discipline who believes Islam
has any relationship with terrorism
whatsoever but we academics and in
charge of policy and we're not were
certainly not politicians so this is
happening because we do have you know
the Fox News effect which whips up you
know fear Muslims we have Donald Trump
who leveraged fear of Muslims and
Islamophobia to come into office I mean
he's his very first act as a politician
was to smear the America's first black
president is either a Muslim or a
foreign tourists are born so you know
people have been you know I've you know
whipped up and appear quasi Islamophobia
industry because a political opportunist
and entrepreneurs like Donald Trump to
believe that is there's something
inherently violent in Islam and it is
concerning Muslims into Paris and that's
why we have these policy prescriptions
which are in place at the moment even
though it is not only can the product be
but you know patently false in fact it's
not eleven you know terrorist acts
carried out by the right-wing extremist
to that number terrorist attacks carried
out by Muslims on the scale for the free
one but nobody is calling for the
profiling of Trump supporters and when
you know the FBI is not trying to you
know recruit from supporters as
informants to spy on other from
supporters so you as a terrorist expert
would you say that Sharia or Muslims are
the greatest threat as we hear expounded
many of times to our freedoms here in
America if not what is right now it's
nationalism I mean in America you know
they did all of the Western world is
being swept up by nationalism we're
returning to you know I you know the
type of atmospherics and we had on the
eighth
Second World War whereas we had heard
the end of the Cold War and it was a
look at word it was you know I remember
when the Cold War ended and we fought
right that's the end of the nation say
we're all beginning become one global
community global citizens with a global
outreach at a cosmopolitan type of look
you know would Europe you had to break
away I mean between a cold war to get
from one Europe instead to annex ever to
pull out papers and go from one you know
border checkpoint so next now all those
borders not the way we thought that
really was how the world was going to
look going forward but now we have a
return to borders and walls and defining
who we are who they are this awesome and
you know it's been mentality when we
identified at foreign álvarez in it you
know as a threat to our internal
security so you know the reason this is
happening is because of you know
economic malaise that summer in the
world we have whereas we have had a
healthy middle class in the nineteen
seats these in the nineteen seventies
and at some point in the 1980s
you know neoliberal economics which was
decided by Reagan and Thatcher which is
built around the ideology of destroying
the welfare state creating a
militaristic state which has gutted out
the middle class where we have income
inequality on the scale we've never seen
before where we have what a Western
world which is divided between haves and
have-nots
well the have-nots have been told the
reason for their plight is not you know
corporate the overreach or corporate
influence in our political discourse
which is giving in corporations and the
rich everything they want at the expense
of us but we've been told that the
reason for economic malaise and the
reason that we're falling over the
middle class in through economic poverty
is because of foreigners and immigrants
and Muslims and this is creating you
know I you know a you know
sympathy was ultra-nationalist I write
movements and political figures ok
lasting there's a lot of sad news here
but good information that we can go
ahead and important information that we
can help to get out there so hopefully
we can awaken some good hearts and some
noise can be made some awareness
and I think our friend Joe Rogan has a
great platform I know you've been on the
Joel Robuchon before are there any plans
to return has he invited you back I mean
he's someone that can can help to spread
some of this good information out there
what do you think yeah mostly
center-right and far-right he he
sympathizes we've you know in some folks
he's a he's a close friend of some like
sam harris he's a close friend we've and
his name eludes me it'll come to me in a
second but he's a number of he hangs out
with his lot he sympathizes we've
rectory he brings them on never
challenges him about their their you
know beliefs as far as his on being a
threat to Western democratic values he
subscribes that kind of thinking so he's
really interested in hearing it counter
viewpoint or people that challenge you
know that was erroneous beliefs I think
he's mighty mind out on Islam and
Muslims and that's our did you see
yourself kind of there were you there in
that same pocket being influenced by the
same people you came out from that do
you think there's hope that possibly he
can also you know from a different point
of view though I mean I was never an
Islamophobe in it I mean I thought while
living in the world's Muslim there
world's most populous Muslim country
Indonesia really there for a decade and
I was fine with Islam and I was fine
with Muslims I love you know close
friends for Muslims but I witness an
aircard a terrorist attack almost
specifically to my original Maya in 2005
on Juba Ron beach where a dozen people
were killed
basically my friends and I were
effectively first responders we had to
run the application you know you know to
determine who was a lot of he was dead
and bring the wounded from the bait shop
to me by a roadway now back to me
because I became obsessed what happened
without no obviously because it's kind
of double the cream all my way through
it probably degree of terrorism but you
know you better back that short period
in my life from 2005 to about 2009 I did
subscribe to the type of the bigoted
beliefs which was espoused by the sam
Harris and Richard Dawkins and alike and
predatory Hitchens but then when I
pulled myself out of a book by
researching Islam and I did that on my
own because I wrote a book on the Quran
and rather talking about the life of the
Prophet Muhammad it was only when I did
a researcher his life I did I understand
how it is Lama folks and Islamic
extremists like bin Laden or bang daddy
did contextualize the Quran in a way
which is totally inconsistent with what
Muhammad meant and you can only
understand what the prophet prophet
prophet Muhammad meant when you
understand his biography and he's like
when where he was at any given point in
his life so you know it was his line
which suspend me from Islamophobia knows
Islam which sure brought me out of it
Joe Rogan right now we'll get him this
direct message God willing and now
you're sitting across from which guests
can you picture in your mind on the Jill
Rogan show if he if he when he hears
this to set it up who would it be
you're ready to go you get the call
you're ready to come back on and
challenge some of those falsehoods
doesn't matter it doesn't matter anyone
he picks Sam okay
CJ we appreciate the wonderful work
you're doing thank you so much how can
people now if they want to follow some
of your work you have a podcast also
please
tell us about that yes CJ w ER le MA in
I have a podcast called you know which
is channel the rage you can find that on
iTunes we've now done about 54 55
episodes are the whole purpose of the
podcast is to to give a voice to the
voiceless
or rather Muslim victims of the global
war on terror and discrimination you
know we we have guests who came to
Ireland for Muslims from India Muslims
from Myanmar Muslims from you know what
we can Muslim refugees had a number of
those guys on so yeah it's it's trying
to reveal what's happening around the
world and you know stories about Muslims
that you know Western media refuses to
tell keep speaking truth thank you very
much it's a very nice to an honor to
have you back on the program God willing
we'll we'll meet again soon sometime
thank you very much CJ for being with us
here on the Deen show we really
appreciate you speaking the truth and
being out there on the forefront
creating awareness and we just got to
hear some very sad news it reminds us
that holding on to this Deen will be
like holding on to the hot coals as it's
been stated and you see that the people
who have been made to look like those
who are causing terrorism havoc on the
lands are the people who are the most
oppressed the Muslims and as CJ wheeler
Minh confirmed in academic circles
counter-terrorists academics all confirm
there's nobody in this area of expertise
that will come out and say that Islam is
the cause of terrorism Muslims are the
growing threat to this country this is
as he said this is fiction this is false
so you but you do have a true narrative
that's out there people who are trying
to create dissension through fear
through your ignorance so make sure that
you
informed on what Islam is what Muslims
are all about here at the Deen show send
us your questions we have a live chat
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Islam in this day and age of
misinformation you got to be careful
what you're looking for you know they'll
attack you you go out there looking for
hate you're gonna find it and then those
cookies that they have they're gonna
keep sending you more and more but you
have to make a commitment within
yourself I want to know the truth I'm
gonna be what genuine and sincere in
that quest for the truth because the
truth shall set you free and it's out
there but if you're already angry and
you're bitter you're not happy in life
and you go down that path of seeking
misinformation and following people out
there who are spreading misinformation
it's not going to help you feel any
better so be genuine be sincere in your
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