welcome to the dean shaw media host my
next guest is a tenured accounting
professor in the state of california
previously he was in the u.s air force
and served during 9 11. we might have to
ask him what happened to building 7.
also he served in the iraq war he was a
kadhiani at the time his father had
taught him some basics of the quran when
he was a kid in fact he was a more
essent of the house
and regularly woke up the whole house
for fajr
as he got older though he began reading
about the ahmadiyya beliefs in details
around 2004 and was shocked at how much
they contradicted the mainstream islamic
beliefs on prophethood
the life of jesus adam the first man the
miracles of isa jesus peace be upon him
and also learned so many other things
that contradicted the real dean his
father later turned on him and so did
his older his brother
ex-wife
and when he became an actual real muslim
around 2017 let's bring out our next
guest
to hear more of his story ahmed shah
here on the show salaam alaikum i'm
sloane brother so nice to be here and
it's bashir amit shah with the m of the
fact check blog uh so nice to be here
love your show brother alhamdulillah
nice to have you with us
so let's talk about this let's start off
with uh when i mentioned
you actually being in the u.s air force
uh at the time
iraq war
and you mentioned and i mentioned that
you were a kadhiani at the time for some
people who've never heard this term you
know you know you know what a muslim is
one who submits to the will of god but
now a lot of times you know people start
getting confused
kadiani muslim
muslim what what is this what does this
mean this term kadhiani what does that
mean let's start with that yeah so it's
uh amides who
who stayed in the city of cardian in
1914 after the split they had a big
split um the educated people moved to
lahore which if you're from pakistan
india this all makes sense if not you
know you forgive you it's okay to get
lost but the educated people moved to
lahore they were called lahori mds and
the family of mirza glam ahmed stayed in
gadian which was where he was born where
he claimed prophethood where he claimed
to be the messiah that's why they were
called uh um gaddianis
over the years
they don't like to be called that
anymore they loved it for the first 50
years but they they moved to pakistan
and um kadyan fell in on the india side
of the partition in 1947 so the next
generation doesn't like it but that's
how we figured out what type of of amity
they were because there's many different
types
well whoa whoa you said something about
someone claimed
to be
another messenger we know that
there's nothing worthy worship except
the one god allah you would have said
this during jesus time during moses time
during noah's time all the messengers
brought the same message there's nothing
worthy of worship except the one creator
that happens in the earth god almighty
allah and during that time whoever was
the messenger jesus at his time moses at
his time
abraham at his time prophet muhammad
peace and blessings be upon him he's the
last and final messenger no more
messengers to come so what are you
talking about brother
yeah claiming that another messenger
came this is contradicting the quran
totally how's that possible
totally yeah so so i i figured out a way
to say it so that they they they can't
find a way out we say muhammad
sallallahu alaihi wasallam is the last
prophet to be born out of the 124
thousand prophets are born it's not
achieved so mirza glamour started saying
it can be achieved and he's saying he
achieved it which is not true it doesn't
matter how good you are brother you
can't be a prophet unless allah made you
a prophet from day one so mirza glam ah
initially
he claimed that the quran left earth and
he was bringing it back and he started
getting revelations with quranic verses
where the quranic verses were referring
to the messenger of allah
muhammad he said these were re-revealed
onto him
and so everyone's like what is this guy
talking about all of a sudden he claims
to be the messiah
and he denies his prophethood he says no
i'm not a prophet i'm a metaphorical
prophet
right so um 10 years after that he said
he said well i was wrong i am i am a
prophet and um
uh i was confused
and uh i i'm i'm the type of prophet um
you know he gave a lot of flowery
you know uh uh um um language where he
didn't answer when you say who who are
you talking about now
mr galam ahmed of ka'dyan that's the
person's name mirza say it again
so he's claiming also now to be a
prophet and the second coming of jesus
the messiah peace be upon him and the
second coming of muhammad sallallahu
sallam
and buddha
and adam he just said i'm all rolled in
one i'm the second coming of everyone
i mean is this documented in any kind of
text or is this coming from his mouth or
were these
where can you find these claims yeah
it's on their website um
um alislam.org you just got to read his
books he's he's made all these claims
it's very it's verifiable the dates um
when and etc so it's all we're in the
age of the information age so it's all
available now brother
okay so let's go back to uh your store
this is the household that you were
brought up in
but you had obviously you have the
the five pillars of islam you have the
six articles of faith you believed in
this
you believe that the quran is the
verbatim word of god almighty no other
virgins just the one that was revealed
through prophet muhammad all these
beliefs are the same
uh on the surface
when you go into the weeds you figure
out that's not exactly true so for
example they believe in all the all the
prophets one of the articles of faith to
believe in all the prophets well they
add mirza galam ahmed to that equation
you see what i mean and we don't we say
if there were 124 000 prophets
muhammad sallallahu salaam is the 124
thousand
there's no one to one hundred twenty
four thousand in one ever gonna happen
again so so so uh even their kalama when
they say la la la la muhammad the
rasulullah they include mr lam ahmed
into that
but but you got to go into the weeds to
find that
so that's the beautiful thing about
islam you have
so many parameters in place
like for instance if someone says look i
deny jesus
as a mighty messenger that takes you out
of islam
you know you cannot go ahead and add or
deduce or it's not like a buffet have it
your way burger king have it your way so
you can't play with the dean so for any
intellectual person or any person who
like you you were inquisitive you
started looking into these things and
you started the contradictions it's
pretty easy to spot no
well only a lot guides
honestly so i i was i'm not biased i
grew up a 49er fan if they lose i don't
jaw with the raider fans look i i just
don't do any of that i call it like i
see it so
i think allah was guiding me since i was
11 12 and and i saw the internal
corruption in in in the 90s right when i
in in the early 2000s i started reading
the books and and the first thing i did
was read the quran i said okay uh
chapter 33 verse 40 hathaway being
that's it it's over and and then i
checked the hadith was that there's like
a hundred it's not just one it did you
know for for the um uh mujad there's one
hadith in the entire collection about
the majed to come every every hundred
years as a reviver it's a singularity
for the end of prophets we're in the
hundreds brother so it's overwhelming
evidence when the evidence is
overwhelming you know so i had to stay
quiet at the time even though i did ask
questions at the local amateur temple
and i got in trouble for it so so that's
when the trouble started brother
how did your your parents
and your family how did they how did you
i mean like you said allah god almighty
allah is the one who guides
how did they not spot it
they're brainwashed so remember in the
karyani am the uh
um
when you're a member every every month
is the same speech every two weeks it's
the same speech i go to the muslim
center now
every jummah is different
you know i mean every that there's
different there's so many parts of islam
brother how could you ever finish from a
to z you're always going to be busy
explaining different things in the amino
movement it's all the same brainwashing
they brainwashed from day one um to to
it's just and over and over and over
again so you know it's like watching the
super bowl super bowl's coming up right
what commercials are you gonna see
you know what i mean pork pepsi trucks
insurance so then so then this is what
is in the human psyche so when they get
done while watching the super bowl and
also there's beer in there too this is
what's in everyone's mind so so it
proves in terms of marketing human
beings can be um brainwashed very easily
brother very easily so were your parents
just kind of just going with the flow
you know just kind of not questioning
you know like a lot of people in other
religions you kind of just fit in on
sundays you know you just fit in
whenever you know the services and
you're not really questioning you know
the meat and potatoes of it
no my dad is an extremist fanatical we
had a tire shop i grew up
changing and selling used tires at my
dad's tire shop he told every customer
jesus is dead
and he never made any money he made a
lot of a lot of christians mad brother i
don't say anything to christians i got
nothing to say about their religion it's
respect it's love i don't tell them you
know but my dad was taught to tell them
jesus is dead and getting to get into an
argument so so he was that kind of
person and he was giving all of his
money as much as he could give he was
giving away to the ammonite movement
which you know that's against islam
because if you have children you know
children children have rights so you
can't use your children as marketing for
the amateur movement to get converts but
that's essentially what he was doing it
um even now he has like a um
the league or a dollar stand at flea
markets
where he hands out amnio literature it's
like 70 80 years old brother so so my
dad is an extreme case
yeah so have you tried you know talking
to your obviously i'm assuming you have
you know with kindness with love you're
trying to reason with him have you tried
to have someone else maybe because
you're his son maybe they didn't work
with you have you signed had someone
else you know a scholar someone who can
go and talk with him about these things
to try to uh point some of these just
obvious facts out
yeah uh when when he sees me and my
eldest brother they call the police
it's on that level in fact i bumped into
my eldest brother in public about four
years ago and tried to say islam alaikum
to him which is a big step for a muslim
to say islam alaikum to like anon i you
know yeah yeah i just because i hadn't
seen him so he wouldn't shake my hand
the next thing i know i get a letter at
my house a restraining order they um
he's saying i i threatened him i'm like
i didn't threaten anything so i go to
court i'm like judge i said peace and
put my hand out and the guy wouldn't
shake it what did i do wrong so so
that's where we're at and that's when
amnes are taught social boy um social
boycott so so they cry about persecution
but really they're the persecutors
because they persecute their own people
you know they say religious freedom but
you can't quit if you try to quit
they'll boycott you they'll they'll try
to economically
you know uh
um a pigeonhole you to where you can't
move so so this is the situation but
alhamdulillah i'm doing amazing i'm
doing five fine with the grace of allah
um i feel like allah has been with me
since i was 11 12. um and that's what
led me out brother
now when you do talk i mean like your
father was talking to christians
obviously as muslims once who has
submitted to the will of the creator not
the creation obviously you know some
really good talking points to let
christians know that we as muslims we
love jesus
you know you cannot be a muslim unless
you believe that he was the messiah that
he's coming back you know all these
beautiful things about his mother old
chapter named after her in the quran but
nowhere do we believe nor did he say
that he was actually god a literal son
of god you know that he died for your
sins i mean we say these things with
compassion and love and we ask for
evidence and we discuss you know what
people have and we go ahead and have
nice dialogues and talks about that but
at the end of the day you have your way
we have ours but you know we get to go
ahead and discuss some of these things
there's nothing wrong with that
obviously but when you start to try to
conflate and you try to you know mix
this is the thing why we want to discuss
this is because obviously a lot of
people are coming to islam to the pure
monotheism and now
shaitaan coming again and now confusing
people and now people are like okay
a lot of times you see the
the news stations they'll bring out a
muslim and you'll be like hold on and
they'll at the bottom will say
uh ahmadi kadiani or something and then
you get like confused
so now you know to set the record
straight for what people need to really
know what is the true way the true you
know because you also have out there
something similar you know you have the
nation of fair khan for instance so so
people don't fall into some of these uh
and they end up missing islam we want
them to understand really what's what is
true islam you know the way that malcolm
x was upon muhammad ali
you know
the mainstream muslims that reach over
two billion that adhere to the quran and
the authentic way the prophetic way
uh sunnah of the last and final
messenger when we say last that's it no
more to come after that
muhammad peace and blessings be upon him
and it's based on evidence
and proof so what else can you tell us
now that people can spot
that they can see like oh okay you know
they can evaluate it they can see
there's no evidence for or they can see
a manipulation of the text the quran and
or whatever whatever else they use to
try to substantiate whatever beliefs
that you saw through
sure sure so so so let's go back a
little bit to uh isa al-islam we share a
lot of common beliefs with the
christians um
in fact the miracles of isa al-islam are
are in the quran yeah we believe those
yes
absolutely it's almost the same you have
to believe it yes so amnes deny that
they deny the miracles of jesus peace be
upon him miracles of of issa al-islam
and in fact they say he died in india at
age 120. so instead of
uh um you know rafa and and um you know
he he's in the samawate uh they say no
he lived 90 additional years and died in
kashmir india um
and they they even found a grave and
said this grave is his grave right and
recent research shows shows and because
it's like a house the the um casket was
always empty there was nothing ever in
that casket to begin with so that's very
strange and and as a kid i always had a
problem with that and my brother and my
dad when they would talk to christians
they would never bring it up and i asked
them one day when i was 12 13 how come
you guys don't bring this up you're
telling them that jesus is dead but then
you're not giving your theory they're
like well you don't tell that on day one
you tell that on day on like the third
year i'm like oh so once they join and
they're already stuck then you tell them
yeah we believe that that islam died in
india at age 120. so
that is just ridiculous okay then they
don't follow like you said the authentic
hadith which is what normal muslims
would follow it's like what's the
authenticity of those hadith they follow
what there's
said so whatever mr glamout said
that's what they're going to follow
whatever hadith he authenticated they
authenticate so for example in terms of
chapter 4 verse 159 where it clearly
says um
before his death his death is isa
al-islam's death before his death and it
starts from chapter 4 verse 157 you know
sometimes they'll isolate verses right
you're not supposed to isolate in terms
of the issa of islam you start from the
beginning uh of whatever chapter so in
chapter four you would start at chapter
4 verse 157 and read it all the way to
160. so in 159 before isa's death all
christians on earth would believe in him
um
and et cetera so there's a famous hadith
by abu hara we all know abu hurairah
he's like the most prolific hadith uh
transmitter in history mirza glam
mammoth cursed adam called him a guppy
which is that's arabic and it means
stupid it means like dumb right so why
because abu herrera has a famous hadith
about the return of isa and he said
recite chapter 4 verse 159 so once i
started seeing all of this i'm like okay
this is academic dishonesty you're
twisting the truth and presenting a
biased uh depiction of what actually is
going on here so uh
so so that's a few things i i don't know
i don't know where to stop i don't want
to overload you but um so another thing
that really bothered me um when i was a
kid was that uh amnes believe if you eat
pork it makes you gay and i remember
laughing once at this argument i just
couldn't believe it that they that they
just because their halifa told them that
they believe it so
so yeah brother back to you i mean uh i
mean obviously both are haram you know
both are things that no muslim indulges
in but you're talking about from like a
scientific you know from
yes sir and that's ridiculous because
that's not true
because
so i'd ask but in pakistan there's a lot
there's there's a gay community that you
know i don't have you know it's whatever
you can do whatever you want uh um i
can't stop anyone but uh i like they
don't eat pork at all there isn't a pig
running around pakistan
anywhere you know so or
there aren't that many
but they believe in the you know the the
way that men and women come together in
marriage uh so
you know staying away from alcohol
are there any other things in the text
that now prohibit prohibitions or
anything that now they allow or things
that they make halal that are haram or
things that are haram they make halal is
there any specifics there yeah there's a
lot there's a lot uh and remember they
they change they'll delete and edit
books uh so you can't find it for
example musical mammoth ate biscuits
made of pig fat from the uk
i i guess they were uh importing them to
british india and these biscuits had pig
fat they were made in pig fat and mirza
glamour loved them he thought they were
tasty so in the 1930s in british india
so remember there's a political side to
this too um
when when they were in british india
they were loud in your face what are you
gonna do you would this is what we
believe we don't care when they had to
move to pakistan they softened
everything that they started to change
it so as they came to pakistan they said
no he didn't actually eat them so
they'll change things then mirza glam
used to drink tonic wine he was on opium
brother in pakistan india in afghanistan
it grows wild so a lot of these guys are
eating it and when you eat it you might
get diarrhea so he had that problem
um so he's on the drugs brother he never
gave a book but
this really affected me when you when i
started getting into the the life of
mirza glamout
gave
and i was like he's the imam mehdi but
he never gives back
he and he never led the prayer you know
they they tried to make up a story and
say no he led the prayer once or twice
brother once or twice isn't good enough
when you're the mezzy and the messiah
and the prophet you know i've led the
prayer for for children you know for for
if i was around when when i was a young
kid and there was a bunch of women you
know i led the prayer so a lot of
personal issues brother and he would get
massages from women
uh um who weren't he wasn't related to
all night people would send their
daughters to gaddian to massage them
their wives so you know
it's not even really a religion brother
it's a family business and they have a
lot of trouble now um one of the
granddaughters of the halifa a family
member
is accusing her father of raping her
and is calling rabwa which is their
headquarters
which
is in the quran chapter 23 verse 50 and
uh they flip chapter 23 verse 50 chapter
23 verse 50 is about the birth of isa
al-islam
um so allah says he took muriam to a
nice place where she could give birth so
they flipped it and said no that means
kashmir and then they named their town
rabwa so in arabwa
it's it's uh you know in punjabi urdu we
call it a kanjirhana but it's basically
uh a private city
it's a state within a state
um
that they run and the corruption and the
sexual
uh exploitation is at an all-time high
uh and these are quitting at an all-time
rate at this time
um
and and everyone's realizing that uh
east side islam prophethood maddy is a
smokescreen they're just trying to keep
us busy in these arguments really what's
going on is is this is a family business
that's uh um i'm laundering money
between their charities and they've been
getting rich for a hundred years
how did uh
it's it's complicated so
they'll say from dysentery well we're
like what is dysentery so you look it up
that's watery diarrhea how did he how
did they say they found him at the end
um well he was in his he he was in a
house in lahore which is a big city in
pakistan and he started having fits of
diarrhea
we are sure it's cholera when you die of
cholera you get uh dehydrated and all
your fluids come out so he had fits of
diarrhea and diet nothing was wrong with
them just fits of diarrhea and all of a
sudden his heart stopped probably over a
two-hour period
and and and remember he told people that
they would die like this
so
um we hear i mean is this factual we
heard that he died and they found him in
the bathroom
well his the bathroom ended up being
where he was he
uh where his bed was because he couldn't
get up anymore um but basically that is
the story uh you know he he died in his
own feces and in his own uh
uh excretion with whatever you want to
call it um but that is how the man died
and within one night like within a few
hours brother it was over
do you see this as the creator god
almighty allah exposing and humiliating
people who make certain claims like this
that are obviously false
they're obviously lies they're obviously
deception deceiving people
totally totally and and this is the
biggest i'd say the most popular
argument amongst the younger generation
they all bring it up that you know how
he died because it's it's you know it's
not like he died from a heart attack
it's not like he died from a got into a
car accident he literally died because
all his fluids came out at one time
and his heart stopped so um you know i
don't want to be too descriptive because
of your viewership but if all your
fluids come out of your body it's not
it's not it's not nice so let's recap
before we conclude so
some of the very important points
is that when you know the theology when
that's why it's very important to get
grounded in your deen in islam so you
can kind of you can be able to
distinguish truth from falsehood so
the claims that were made that he was
another prophet
after prophet muhammad
so this is one
very very telltale sign this is uh false
he also claimed to be the messiah
actually
the second coming of jesus
and this is another false
um claim
so you can spot that what else do we
cover he denied the but how he's denying
the miracles of jesus but then he's
saying he is jesus
right well he denied all miracles in the
quran in in in islam uh in islam in
total in in totality in totality
split the sea no the staff turned into a
snake oh so he's denying all of those
yeah he was and uh uh there are types of
monophthics that do that that deny you
know the splitting of the moon uh et
cetera he denied that also denied it
well
and on that one he kind of went back and
forth and then he denied the uh the
birth of isa al-islam he even said that
isa might have had a father and in
uh and the lahorian these believe that
to this day so so now they believe the
goddamnities believe that a muriam
astaghfirullah was a hermaphrodite
and that she was able to impregnate
herself
so they even deny that brother
so you really
you know you um you got to be what
lessons can we take from this you really
got to be sincere
you really have to
want to be connected to your creator and
like allah god almighty he guided you
kept you safe from this you got to know
your deen
you know you can't be ignorant because
then shakedown is going to
lead you astray you're going to fall
into the many pitfalls and traps on
there because for someone like you now
for other people out there who know the
basic tenets of islam who have a basic
understanding of tolheed of the quran
and the sunnah they hear these things
that you're saying that you're bringing
out for you know for some people for the
first time who are hearing this and
they're like hold on i would have spot
this a mile away but then you have
people who fall into this trap you got
to think like where are they at now what
other interests are pulling them in
is it again it goes you have some
community what else business
money you know what other things you
know keep people uh going with this but
then you said that it's just dissolving
as we're as as many of these facts are
starting to come out is it falling apart
right right so so my dad was a convert
uh and he got a job and a wife
as part of the deal uh so
so they they they'll help you out if
you're in pakistan they're like well
we'll get you out um
and um so charity they'll they'll uh
there's
there's motivational there's uh benefits
monetary benefits and
uh the help that will come
totally and most most people who convert
don't know islam if they knew islam
there's no way but if you kind of don't
and then everything is new to you if you
haven't read up on isa al-islam and the
islamic perspective then you know
they'll they'll say everything's
rational you know they they don't
believe that hell is everlasting they
believe everyone's eventually going to
get to heaven uh brother the list is
endless let's just if i start going
going down the list um you know uh they
believe that um iblis was a human
uh how weird is that they don't believe
in jinn even though allah says like five
times in the quran uh i created jin and
men you know it's the and there you know
i want to make another note i mean when
you understand the quran verbatim word
of god almighty
then the other element to it
understanding the one who interpreted
the quran the prophet muhammad peace and
blessed you upon him and those who
understood
the deen the best the companions of
prophet muhammad the sahaba who lived
during that time and those who came
after now when you have a good
foundation of this do they believe these
things that this person and others come
about and you study their life and you
understand how they understood the deen
you know then you have a pretty strong
basis
and you shouldn't be led astray but we
always have to you know continue to
beseech our creator's help to keep us
guided and i want to
um
you know commend you and thank you for
coming out and helping to uh expose some
of these things so others you know a lot
of you know islam continues to be the
fastest growing life in the world and
others now who are kind of like uh we're
talking about confused now they're new
and they're learning some of these
things and they're mixed in with islam
and now they might end up falling into
this
what advice do you have for them
um
pray to allah pray five times a day
minimum say all the duas and uh read
read for hours and hours i was in
college at the time so i was on my
computer all day anyways so i i would
break out and go read and um so i read
um ibn kathir tafsir even kathir sayuti
ha uh has its of sear uh uh tubbery it's
not totally available but you can find
the quotations um
you know uh so allah has made the dean
easy all you gotta do is read that's it
and you know most people in america
should be reading anyways because
reading makes you write better and if
you're in college this is what sort of
the skills you're going to need to learn
and not even if you're in college no
matter what job you're doing being able
to read and write and understand um
literature
or information being able to decipher
information what's right what's wrong
you had mentioned something about the
towers and in 9 11. it's all
it's all complicated it's all about what
happened what really happened it takes
you you're not going to figure it out by
watching one youtube video you're going
to spend a lot of time looking at all
the facts um so yeah uh but
unfortunately as you know most of our
species you know uh would rather just
talk on their phone or do something else
than sit down and read so um
the first thing
muhammad was told was to recite
so um
get into the practice of reading and
writing daily you know something that
you like whether it's cars or football
or religion which is reality you know
i'm into reality so so that's sort of
what i did brother and um
and uh and only allah guides so even if
you read a lot it doesn't mean honestly
if you're not if allah doesn't choose to
guide you uh then it's not gonna happen
brother yeah this is a very important
point is always stay connected to your
creator and the one and only
beseech his help his guidance ask for
the guidance and just one more question
do you think
the media when they bring on people from
this movement do they
because there's so many muslims out
there you know
close to 2 billion all of a sudden they
bring this
group out as if they're representing
islam do you think they do this
deliberately
deliberately and it's crumbling in front
of us in fact there's an amity employee
who was who
um who's under uh fbi indictment for
child pornography um
in the uk there's a lot of cases going
on for
sexually explicit behaviors so the word
is getting around people are opening
their eyes um and you know guys like
gossam rashid is trying to be a
politician in virginia and trying to
push that agenda well remember in the uk
you uh they don't vote for congressmen
local district congressmen and senate
the way that we do i don't think they do
it in canada so it's not a real
democracy they appoint so when you can
appoint your friends to be the senator
and the congressman so that's how in the
uk they have a strong base their
headquarters is worth 40 million pounds
in the you know
it's a separate charity altogether
and um the propaganda machine
has been in high gear since you know
we're all late to the party brother
they've been doing this since the
british government in fact mirza
glamour's father helped the british
government help their armies and et
cetera so uh they've had a lot of
political backing brothers since day one
so um
yeah that seems to be the story brother
thank you very much for sharing your
story some highlights of it and
for
helping expose some of these truths
thank you very much
and i want to thank you guys for tuning
in very important to dedicate some time
for learning so you can grow and
understand
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you assalamu alaikum