[Music]
the dean show peace be with you welcome
to the dean show now you're probably
wondering why do I have Ted on my right
Hamza zorus on my left and we're here at
Mass ikna we have our brother in
humanity and we're going to be talking
about some very important topics purpose
of life we got a person who's really
curious about what's the meaning of life
and we're going to be discussing all
this and more on this week's episode of
the de show don't go anywhere we'll be
right
back this is the
the
the is
the this is the this is
the this is the
this is the dean
show this is the Dean this is the dean
show this is the
de this is the dean show this is the
back here on the dean show how are you
Ted peace peace peace much peace to you
my friend thank you you see how you
already look uh just to give you a
little bit of a history uh me and Ted
it's been we met over about a year ago
uh you know actually the first time we
met was about
2006 2006 the very first time I went to
aass class with you yes and then somehow
we ended up at the mosque yeah well
years later we wound up at a mosque we
ended up at the mosque you you got to
you know you inquisitive that's what I
like about you you're you're open-minded
willing to learn and we're at the mosque
you met a scholar of Islam Abdullah
Hakim quick Abdullah the shake yes yes
we talked a we talked a little bit about
history Christianity and whatnot and
somehow now we're here today at the mass
UT with my brother also Hamza dorsis my
brother Humanity Ted and we're having a
nice discussion alhamdulillah how you
been good broam peace be with you good
to see you again to see see Ted man good
first time you guys first time you guys
are meeting it's really good to be seen
I feel honored I feel honored to be seen
so you know the objective of the dean
show is to try to as we have the bumper
scker showing to help people identify
what the purpose of life is many people
are worshiping money Fame status they're
blindly walking out there just you know
um getting involved in all sorts of
things but Islam we feel really
gives Humanity the solution to all the
social problems fills the heart with
that void that is missing so the de show
really along with clearing many of the
misconception there's a lot of
misconceptions about Islam and Hamza zor
is one of those also who's on who's out
there helping you know deliver you know
to to the people the correct information
about Islam along with the Deen Show so
now we thought it'd be a good good
opportunity where we can kind of come
together and answer maybe some questions
you might have cuz you're like what's
that Curious George but curious Ted
remember remember Curious George he got
into a lot of trouble on his way to
figuring things out sounds like a lot of
my life really how did you like that
first meeting we had at at with Abdullah
H quick at the Moss uh you know what I
was a fantastic meeting um I have to say
it was I I kind of left in a a state of
feeling um at peace with uh where I had
been walking prior to and uh I was
raised Christian um not necessarily on
purpose I think the only reason I really
got involved with Christianity is
because I had a very very close friend
in the fifth grade who invited me to
Sunday school and my mother said if
you're going to go to Sunday school you
are going to go to Sunday school and
that became my Sundays and that was
where my experience began to grow in uh
in Christianity if you will and of
course over years that began to to to
edify and become a bit of a practice and
a philosophy and and uh as I've
explained in the past and and I'll I'll
try to do my best to do it quickly now
is that questions begin to arise with
being within any given
discipline how is a story from 2,000
years ago applicable to my life today
you know I mean let's be honest uh a lot
of our religious leaders that we admire
didn't have to deal with social media
they didn't have to deal although there
may have been the social media of the
arrow was some guy running down the
street screaming that that guy just said
something and and now we have a a riot
on the street but can we say that's the
first question how does the story 2,000
years ago can we say that's your first
question
to to to me it's an amazing an amazing
opportunity to look at I I have a pretty
solid understanding of of how
Christianity came about how Christianity
was developed as the Western
Choice uh along with its scientific
derivative so I don't know as much about
Islam in fact can I just I'll restate I
know nothing about
Islam so much as to say oh I don't
believe in that well that's not fair I
don't that's like me saying I don't eat
cucumbers and I've never had one before
okay I happen to love cucumbers so it's
an opportunity to to get to know what
exactly is it there uh we talk about a
purpose of life and I'm curious to know
what is it that's fundamentally driving
this this group of fantastic people to
hang out for example just today go ahead
take it away that's a very good question
I had similar questions I converted to
Islam like 12 years ago I come from a
Greek background I don't know Greek but
although I was going through customs
Chicago airport and the Security
Homeland Security said hey you look like
Leon this I said no I don't I don't I
don't he's far more handsome than me and
bigger anyway so I had all these
questions as well right so it's very
hard to sum up but I
think the first question that you asked
was how is it applicable to me yeah now
when we look at the book The Quran which
we believe is the word of
God it doesn't start in the beginning
and in the end and there's an
orientalist who translated the Quran his
name was
aubery and he made a very profound point
he said the wisdom in the Quran not
having a beginning or an end the wisdom
in the Quran being
four-dimensional is that it's showing us
is come from a being who transcends time
from that perspective and has the
totality of all knowledge and that when
he's revealed this text that you don't
start in the beginning and the end but
you reflect and you engage with the text
text and it transcends the 7th Century
it transcends the 15th century and it
transcends the 21st century and it's
applicable applicable to you now this is
why the quranic discourse
says do they not reflect upon the Quran
the book or the locks on their hearts so
the more reflection we do the more
hearts become unlocked to receive the
kind of Mercy guidance love of the
Divine reality so the first point of
call is that you'll understand that the
book is timeless is when you start to
engage with it so for for example when I
engage with the book I see an amazing
example in chapter
39:29 and this blew me away it says
consider the condition of two people one
person is a slave to many slave masters
and they're all quaring or the person
who's a slave to one who who's better in
condition and all praise is due to God
now the way I reflect on that from my
personal perspective and many of the
which means Scholars reflected on this
was hey
and you would understand this because
before we talked about
existentialism you're thrown into
existence you didn't choose you're going
to be white you didn't choose you're
going to have ginger hair you didn't
choose your DNA you didn't choose your
no sense of even being proud of it you
know you didn't choose your ethnicity
and didn't choose how gorgeous is going
to be M I'm not sure about that that
that beard is very well grown I'm going
to say he looks great so the point is we
had no choice in our social economic
circumstances or the context that we
were brought up in right so we had no
choice
not only this we didn't have a choice in
the kind of system we're brought up in
you know L'Oreal because I'm with it
this kind of individualism this
materialism so what God is basically
saying is is that you thrown into
existence and you had no choice now the
question is are you going to be a slave
to that sure then there's another point
you have your own desires and your own
ego and instincts are you going to be
enslaved to your desires and your ego
and your instincts or are you going to
transcend transcend that are you going
to be like a cow grazing and just eating
grass and making babies and dying is
that your existence so what the Quran is
saying is if you're not enslaved to
something you're always going to be a
slave basically so the Quran is saying
choose your servitude you either a slave
to society a slave to Your Ego a slave
to your biology a slave to your context
or you're enslaved you're in service to
the one that created you and he knows
you but then you know yourself and he
loves you more than your mothers love
you this is the summary of what the
Quran is trying to say we're going to
take a break with that said and we write
back back with more with Ted and Hamza
here on the de show don't go anywhere I
want you to imagine you wake up and in
front of you are a bunch of guys running
around kicking a ball no goals no lines
no rules what would you
think but is that your life surely every
sport has its goal every game has its
end it has its objective it has its
rules how about life
how about our life isn't there a goal to
life isn't there a purpose an objective
that we have to reach we think so the
Quran tells us that we exist in order to
worship God and worshiping God means
knowing god as the Quran
says worship though is not some narrow
small thing it's wide it's vast it
encompasses
everything that the human being does
everything that you do everything that
you think everything that you feel can
be done thought said felt in a way that
is either pleasing or displeasing to God
the purpose of life is to try and do
everything in a way that God loves and
God is pleased with that is your goal
please subscribe to the dean show follow
us on our official Facebook and Twitter
pages in The Links below please also
help support the dean show by making a
donation in the link
[Music]
below back here on the dean show we're
having an enlightening conversation
sharing and this is real important that
we as human beings we come together we
try to understand each others especially
today's day and age you know you have a
lot of misconceptions about Muslims and
Islam but now when you sit we've gotten
to have some discussions now you're
getting to have another discussion with
with ham zorses and how do you like what
he had to say Hamza presents a a a
fantastic and eloquent description of of
of all of this and we we spoke earlier
uh and we did share we have common
interest in existentialism and and uh
common interest in health and uh again
getting back to I guess the the
foundation of humanity is that we do
share common interests uh I I've been to
so many
different um religious events and
there's a fundamental end to each of
these events and that is you know we're
we're looking to live this given
opportunity of life in the the fullest
happiest loving sharing possible
way
and then they Mar it with a series
of the the moral compass that lies
within each one of the practices and so
I guess where my fundamental question
lies is and it was a question maybe
never asked by Aristotle he would have
just done us the favor and asked the
question to begin with we'd be a lot
happier as a group and that we don't
know why we need a moral
compass so I guess I'm inventing a new
moral compass and saying that it's okay
for you to have your moral compass and I
want to ask of you the permission for me
to obtain my
own and then again unlocking as you said
reflecting digging inward reflecting on
that I thought that was a fantastic
description of it all but getting to the
point of why we should have this why we
got to have it I guess we ask why I'm
like that annoying two-year-old that ask
why why is this you give an answer why
is this they just keep doing it over and
over again until the answers
suffice I'm going to risk evaluating the
entire thing and in the hopes that it's
not done in a way that offends anyone
um I would equate it to this if we were
to sit here the three of us right now
and envision A Perfect Circle
while I can Envision A Perfect Circle if
each of us were to grab a pen and
draw our Circle as an attempt to
interpret our visualization of that
Perfect Circle our physical
manifestation of that Circle would be
probably less than perfect sure we've
developed tools to help us create better
looking circles right and we're getting
much better at taking this concept of
this perfect world this this Utopia of
loving and sharing and living amongst
one another the ultimate goal of how
this all starts is learning how to get
along with one another in the
world I guess if I were to uh compare it
to existing models of Technology
software hits the market as a beta
version and after that it gets you know
it gets purified we find bugs we get
them out of the way this does it work we
don't need this this would be really
nice let's add this and we've been doing
this as Humanity within every
single facet of life since we've been
here we're in beta sure we're we're
we're improving the existence of
life I guess uh for me I can tell you
that 10 years ago in a room surrounded
by Muslims I might not have been very
comfortable chances are I would have
been very uncomfortable are you
comfortable now are you kidding me I'm
I'm like in the I'm in the bowl of water
that I belong I'm in you know you you
feel like you're where you belong always
and this is the problem if I'm now this
is where the I guess the the arrival of
my current place in life is is that I'm
I'm so willing to just let people be
happy where they are without interfering
and judging them for their current
decisions without judging them for where
they are in their beta version of of
materializing the life they want to live
that it's easier for me to feel
comfortable you know I wasn't ra raised
that way I was raised very deliberately
within the Realms of this is right and
this is wrong and as was stated
yesterday here during the the lecture
that what was right and wrong has
changed dramatically in the last 20
years and I'm I'm not a spring chicken
it's changed even more so in let's say
the last 40 my children do things today
that aren't
necessarily things that I would have
been allowed to do when I was younger
how does that how does that make you
feel absolutely amazing free liberated
uh there's so much less stress being
alive I don't have to run around judging
my surroundings judging the actions of
other people and I know that each of us
we naturally begin to evaluate things
and we we begin to weigh them in against
our moral compass a moral compass that's
been given to us we we like the color of
my hair and where I was born and all of
these things that literally just kind of
happened
on the material side one would say and
this is why I think that all of us on
our path to spirituality we're we're
beginning to get closer and closer to an
answer and that we don't just come from
Allah or God or Buddha we don't come
from this definition of an all- knowing
being we are literally pieces of that
being that have spread out Across the
Universe in a sort of way and we're
beginning to Gra gravitate back to one
another let let me let me get his
comments on that yeah I mean that's
fascinating I think for me going back to
my original example of like you know
we're thrown into existence we're almost
enslaved to our biology context Society
for me the way to achieve that
Liberation that you're actually talking
about is
actually changing your state of
servitude and and and slavery if you
like like you're basically saying I'm
going to remove the shackles from my own
ego and my desires no M no matter how I
couch intellectually I'm going to remove
those shackles from my ego my desires
remove the shackles from society remove
the shackles from my kind of social
context and I'm going to try to
emancipate and liberate myself but how
do you do this and there's a clue in the
Quran itself the Quran mentions a word
for the soul it's and the word shares
the same root Arabic root as the word
which means Serenity and Liberty so as
if the soul wants to achieve that
Liberty right and the only way from a
quranic Paradigm perspective to achieve
that Liberty is actually changing your
servitude from a servitude to your own
self ego desires Society materialism but
changing that servitude to the one who
created you the one who knows you better
than you know yourself and as the
prophet Muhammad upon who BP said the
one who loves you more than your mother
does that is where Liberation lies so in
a way Islam wants to De individualize
you wants to strip away with these kind
of fake Notions about yourself I'm a
doctor I'm this I'm that even concepts
of gender right because these are social
constructs right so the Islam takes away
this linguistic wrapping I'm a father
I'm a doctor I'm a man I'm I'm white I'm
black I'm American I'm this I'm that I
have a degree I have a PhD unwrap
yourself on what's left who are you who
are you for whom are you and for some of
us on a Friday night where are you right
sure so so the point I'm trying to say
is these are the Deep existential
questions referring to the self
questions that I think Islam answers in
a very liberating way because if we
basically talk about other things other
methods of thinking Realms of
existence I think it has an ephemeral
kind of reality meaning it's a bit empty
just conceptually for me CU for me
there's nothing more profound than being
in tune connecting to worshiping being
in service to the one that created you
and that knows you better than you know
yourself right like Allah their Dy God
knows t better than Ted knows Ted he
knows Hamza Hamza knows Hamza he knows
Eddie better than Eddie knows Eddie and
he loves us more than our mothers love
us he's Al which means the excessively
loving it's a Transcendent type of love
that's why the prophet Muhammad upon HP
said that God loves you more than your
mothers do and mothers love from a
material perspective a worldly
perspective is the greatest love so the
prophet Muhammad upon whom peace is
saying that God's love is greater
greater than that you can't really put
it in a test tube and understand that
you could have a some kind of
understanding feeling but it's
Transcendent love so from that
perspective I think it's more grounded
it's more liberating it's more what I
would
call emancipating spiritually do you see
because I've just seen that with my life
I came from agnostic tradition my dad's
like a cumulous spiritualist loves Jesus
but doesn't like religion and Dogma so I
was brought up in that kind of
philosophical kind of I know the drill
exactly that philosophical environment
but then I I started to realize when I
was going to the different Realms of
thinking or constructs or whatever you
want to call it I really felt that I was
so so liberated in basically this
connection with the Creator because it
basically Des shackles you from
everything else that's in a way
illusionary sure you know most of it is
I most Scholars agree is illusionary
exactly so that's why I think the
Islamic Paradigm which we think is not
that we have a monopoly on the truth
because a Muslim should never be
arrogant should always be humble you
know the the scholars say that having
knowledge means you say you have no
knowledge right and it should humble you
and realize that God has the picture we
just have the pixel short has the
picture we have the pixel yeah and
that's what humble us but what we
suggest is there are some fundamental
truths out what we call non-negotiable
like you know you exist is
non-negotiable right sure and you know
that that tolerance and love are good
values is
non-negotiable so from this perspective
there are some non-negotiable truths
like
Creator you're in a state of worship to
something your s Society The Bling Bling
materialism for your creator liberate
Yourself by worshiping the Creator
that's the fundamental reality of Islam
and that's why it's quite liberating
from that perspective we're going to go
ahead and take a break and continue our
discussion here on the dean show with
Hamza and
Ted don't go anywhere in the words of
Swiss journalist and author Dr Roger dep
pasque the West whether Christian or
de-christianized has never really known
Islam ever since they watched it appear
on the world stage Christians never
cease to insult and slander it in order
to find justification for Waging War on
it it has been subjected to grotesque
distortions the traces of which is still
injure the European mind even today
there are many westerners from whom
Islam can be reduced to three ideas
fantasis fatalism and polygamy of course
there does exist a more cultivated
public whose ideas about Islam are less
deformed there are still precious few
who know that the word Islam signifies
nothing other than submission to God One
symptom of the ignorance is the fact
that the imagination of most Europeans
Allah refers to the Divinity of the
Muslims not the god of the Christians
and Jews they are all surprised to hear
when one takes the trouble to explain
things to them that Allah means god and
that even Arab Christians know him by no
other
name please subscribe to the dean show
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also help support the dean show by
making a donation in the link
[Music]
below and I'm I'm leaning towards this
you know we're we're material beings
we're Spiritual Beings having a material
experience are you caught we're still
talking you see it's very very very this
is the human connection that we're
having and you know as Muslims we share
because we care and we're sharing and we
we ham uh you can if you want to expound
on this it's not our job as Muslims to
try to force anything down someone's
throat we just want a platform we just
want people to consider this you you
you've tried everything else in life
yeah we want to talk the thing is we
want to plant seats and we want to
engage and learn from other people as
well like even the prophet Muhammad upon
who be peace when it came to material
scientific stuff you'll look at the
Persians and Romans and say if it worked
for them it would work for us which
gives us the lesson that scientific
knowledge is a human development that we
have to engage we have to have cross
civiliz cross civilizational kind of
interdependency we learn from each other
this what Islam is all about even
medieval Baghdad would you believe it
when the Europeans were drinking each
other's blood for example we had
atheists Muslims Christians and Jews in
Bagdad medieval discussing about man
life in the universe but how can you
how's theine line the balance now
because some people say okay well all
roads lead to Rome so if you take a
little bit about uh Christianity
Buddhism you know and I'll make my own
moral compass right it's like a buffet
what's the fine line now does God will
God accept this well from the desire
perspective no because once you
understand that there is a Creator in in
in life for Life creator of life he
created you he created the whole entire
Cosmos he announced himself to mankind
via the Quran via the prophet Muhammad
upon him be peace then from that
perspective to have integrity to that
message then you follow that message
because what you're saying is this has
come from a higher source who am I I'm a
speck of dust in this like almost
infinite desert and who am I I'm nothing
so if I have an actualization and a
realization that this is the creator he
loves us he gave us a message he is
Alman he is the merciful and he taught
us Humanity the Quran which is like a
love letter to human right because in
chapter chapter the merciful he says
he's the merciful and he taught the
Quran so the Quran is through his Mercy
it's like one love letter to humanity
right if I know this comes from a
Transcendent source that has the
totality of wisdom and knowledge and I
have nothing I am nothing then who am I
to say you know what I'll take some of
that and I'll take something else I have
airmed its source if and that's an
intellectual thing that's an emotional
and spiritual thing if I've affirmed
that's the source then that's it hats
off I'm following that you know it's
like when you go to school University
right imagine I'm a seven-year-old and I
go to a mathematics professor he's
writing calculus I'm like you're so
stupid Professor this is how you do it
and I grw cartoons who who you going to
believe you may know nothing about
calculus you may know nothing about
cartoons but you're going to believe him
because he is the authority so if God is
the authority concerning wisdom
knowledge Etc spirituality the moral
grounding for our lives there are some
things that we know are morally true
it's never going going to change if I
were to shoot in the head for no reason
I don't care what society says it's
wrong right your bottom line lies to
that there there's the segue to to part
of where I'm standing on this in that we
are agreeing that it all comes from
Allah and for the sake of this
conversation and they I'll give that and
and respectfully
so I find it remarkably difficult to
stand in a position where I can make a
decision that this yes comes from him
and this is no the agreement is that all
things come from give us give you're
giving us something now you this is good
okay come on so if all things come from
Allah how are we choosing this moral
directionality how are and I'm going to
agree to this why would I say committing
murder killing another person deep down
in the depths of who we are that
violence is derived in an effort to
defend a position in our life not a
posture of being a human being but the
position of standing in a belief this is
the conflict that lies amongst religions
this is potentially my goal in life is
to dissolve that that needs to stop so
how would you summarize this in the
question now question is you how is it
that you're genuinely choosing that this
is Allah's message when we know already
within the Quran and I don't know when I
say we I'm including myself in this
because you're sharing it with
me we know that it all comes from him
and if it all comes from him just like a
watch comes to you from a box with all
of the parts that it requires to be a
watch Humanity has come with all of the
parts that it requires to be Humanity
but that's the point that's Allah
dropping in on it right that's that's
there that's that's the it when I buy a
watch not that I wear one yeah me
neither I hate things to me I just find
it very difficult like say buy just take
the watch make it to an iPhone or
Samsung sure something that use today in
the Box you have a manual yeah now you
could say let me live my life trial and
error but the problem with this is not
that error is wrong because the prophet
Muhammad upon be said that the son of
Adam sins and the best of all Sinners
are those who turn back to God they
repent to God we just turn back to him
error is not a problem but just using
that as a method for life you always
going to fall in some error so what the
manual does is if you really want to
have a holistic understanding of what's
going on just understand the manual read
it so what God has done he's sent us
life he's given us life sure and he's
given us em manual which we call the
Quran so the question lies if everything
is based on this book then what good
reasons do we have to believing this
book let me give you a hypothetical
scenario because we may not have much
time to discuss why I think this book is
transcendent from the Divine if and I me
to be very sincere to look right into
your heart explore and S into the oceans
of your beautiful heart and I want to
answer this question if we could show
good reasons intellectually rationally
spiritually humanly whatever that this
book can can be attributed to the
Divine forget Quran say book X say we
had book X yeah whatever Source it be
book X if we showed good reasons that
came from the Divine would you play with
the possibility that you would submit
your whole life based on this message if
you can show that's a precise position
that's the precise position that I stand
in today and that there has to be
something in continence of us
understanding when I see religion and I
face religion like I would my neighbor
was my best friend my dinner table had a
very set a very specific set of rules
and we ate meals and we lived very
happily at our dinner table and at my
friend's house when I had dinner the
rules were different
course now I love my friend growing up
and he loved me and we're great friends
today after many many many years and the
rules by which we grew up under were
different the very same thing I can say
with with
Islam there I'm not going to stand here
and say that they're wrong that is a
that that's bis merching this position
we have to have conversations connect
with one another but the question is
would I follow it of course am I
following it most likely if you looked
at my day-to-day life right now you
would probably say yeah he's doing it
and he doesn't even
know well you know I grew it myself you
know or it grew for itself I don't know
well the funny thing about the beard you
don't have to do anything it's the
easiest thing to do don't do nothing
just be and there it is but that that's
the point so if we're in a very
beautiful critical place where we are
sincere we understand if book X could be
reason to be from the Transcendent the
Divine it's assigned to the Divine then
we would align Our Lives towards it so
maybe the next question is and a very
human discussion is do I as a Muslim
have good reasons to believe in the
Quran and that would be a profound
discussion to have this is amazing
conversation that's happening we're
almost out of time I mean people are
scre I mean we're getting some some
great flow of questions going through
back and forth we're connecting you guys
I'm sure you want to engage have them
engage some more so don't go anywhere
we'll be right back with more of this
really captivating enlightening
conversation between Hamza and Ted here
on the dean show don't go anywhere
please subscribe to the dean show follow
us on our official Facebook and Twitter
pages in The Links below please also
help support the dean show by making a
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