and I think having this emergency
meeting with Patrick David was the wise
thing to do and his response was in turn
the wise response I think he's a very
assalamualaikum greetings of Peace
recently there was a video that caught
all of us by surprise something about an
ambush when it comes to the title of the
video which is we were about to be
ambushed it involved Patrick being David
Muhammad hijab and Ali dawah I said what
is going on Patrick would like to do a
round table discussion on religion
specifically Islam I get on the phone
with Patrick Ben David because I love
his vision he's come a long way
regarding Islam and Muslims and he's
seeing the bigger picture of Christians
and Muslims working together and what if
Muslims and Christians come together
he's recently had on his program our
brother Andrew Tate Habib Mike Tyson now
Patrick is going even further trying to
set up a historic event inviting myself
to be a co-host with him with some of
the biggest names in the Muslim
Christian world to try to accomplish
this Vision now to get to the bottom of
this we had an emergency meeting with
myself Patrick Ben David and Muhammad
hijab so let's find out what happened in
this emergency meeting and what's going
to happen next God willing insha Allah
we've been told that uh they're out to
kill us all assalamualaikum brothers and
sisters we went to the streets to ask
Americans about Islam here's what they
said do you know anything about Islam No
do you know anything about Islam No
sadly do you know anything about Islam
uh not really do you know anything about
Islam
no I'm sorry you know what Islam means
Islam uh no we've been told that they're
out to kill us all that's what you've
been told that Muslims are out to kill
you all
well that's what they say on TV
anything
I know it's in the Middle East isn't it
well then you're gonna have four wives
brothers and sisters as you can see
there are so many Americans who don't
know about Islam we need your help to
change that help us to build the dean's
Center the first mega dawa Center in
America click the Donate right now may
God Almighty Allah reward all of you
[Laughter]
I love your smile brother
that's what all the girls say
that's a that's what all the uh your all
your wives say huh that's what I meant
so tell me how you doing how you been I
mean very well how about yourself
so let's start off with um and this is
again with the permission of Patrick and
David he we're not going and having a
meeting and then talking about private
things that were discussed we had a
pride we did it started off as a private
meeting between myself yourself and him
and another individual Robert there and
from there we concluded at the end we
had some good things it was a very great
positive meeting and he said go ahead
and discuss some of the things that we
talked about with his permission so
where would you like to begin well I
mean let's begin with uh you know what
happened exactly so many people would
have seen the video where me and Ali
dawa are basically talking about this
negotiation that took place and it was
weeks and weeks long uh these
negotiations between us and valutainment
relating to a debate between us and uh
some interlocutors about uh in the first
instance about Judaism Christianity in
Islam so we agreed to such encounter and
discussion but then there were some um
some problems let's say in the disc in
the negotiations in the uh boundaries
settings uh between us and uh and the
other party and we felt like the kind of
deal that we were getting was a raw one
and so we decided uh to uh to move away
from it all together because we thought
that you know for example we had uh
inequality in the numbers of people that
were going to be representing Muslims
comparative to the amount of Christians
that were going to be there if we
include the host and the co-hosts and
stuff like that we had a topic which
wasn't set and uh was yet to be set
there wasn't even a guarantee of
equality of timing which is standard in
professional debates and stuff like that
and we kept asking some of these
questions and we didn't get a
satisfactory response and so because we
we felt more and more uh frustrated by
the whole experience we decided to bring
the matter to the public
and you know because of that and other
things we decided to speak to Patrick uh
face to face about on Zoom review of
course as a moderator and I think that
was your initiative and you should be
giving credit for that
um
because I think you see things that we
don't see obviously being in America
having spoken to him haven't had private
conversations with him and to be honest
with you in that conversation he came
across as extremely facilitating he came
across extremely humble and a generous
magnanimous
and so if anyone shows us that level of
energy I think it's only right for us to
respond in kind and he was very
concessionary in fact saying that you
know all of us aspects that we've spoken
about the topic can include both
Christianity and Islam that there will
be a co-host and that you would be the
co-host so it would be instead of
Patrick David being
the only person to host it it would be
you and Patrick but David which would be
which would kind of distribute uh the
bias if you like and create more of a an
equal playing field as it were and uh
critically as well that we could
actually use the footage for our own
social media platforms and so there we
could potentially uh you know put it on
our our channels which which would
increase the obviously the reach in and
would be better for everybody as well
and uh this would prevent any potential
Distortion that could happen uh is that
you know in the potential debate which
we don't think that Patrick would go
that far and do to be honest based on
the conversations we've had with him and
based on his track record they've been
distort especially considering the fact
that he actually did in the first
instance actually say that it was going
to be live anyway so that was a
mitigation that we we put in place in
the first instance but with all those
things having been said uh it sounded
much more agreeable frankly uh and if in
fact by the end of the conversation we
had a broader conversation about Muslim
Christian interlocutors where uh we we
suggested William Lane Craig
and Ben Shapiro and he has links uh to
Ben Shapiro has just been on his show uh
and as many people will know I've had
many videos uh you know refuting Ben
Shapiro and his Palestine issue on on
the Palestine issue and so on so that
would be a massive you know kind of
debate if you like or discussion that
could potentially happen along the line
as well so there's there's good to come
out of this but since we're still in the
kind of negotiation stage and we're
solidifying everything and there's a few
things we have to take care of from our
perspective in the United Kingdom uh we
we cannot update the public with an
exact date and time as to when uh the
engagement will take place with whom and
what topic will be or whatever until all
these things are set in stone but the
the point to be noted here is the point
to be noticed here is that quite frankly
he was facilitating and it does seem
like Patrick David and valuetainment
want to go more in a direction uh of
Building Bridges with the Muslim
Community tackling some of these issues
uh for example the issues to do with
transgender ideology uh and uh you know
teaching LGBT curricula to Children uh
and things like that which everyone
let's call it more let's say
conservative because we're not
conservative from a ideological
perspective but certainly we're
traditionalists and we align more on
those issues with U.S conservatives than
we would do with liberals agree on so
that's really the gist of the music of
the productive meeting a fruitful one at
that and it's only fair just as we came
out in public to reprimand and to
criticize Patrick Davis for us to come
out and do the same thing uh when he's
being so concessionary with us
you know a lot of people when you look
at that that that's the honorable thing
to do and that's what we're called to do
as Muslims I mean that's you know that's
something that now obviously anyone
who's extended we've I and I've
commended him actually and I've seen his
progression he's come a long way from
years ago some things that he said and
then we've also respectfully you know
presented the arguments academically
I've gone and we made some videos and
then you've have also and I think that
things are starting to turn for the
better compared to like Joe Rogan now
you remember me and you I think we've
addressed some things to Joe Rogan yeah
me and you that's the programs and Joe
Rogan it looks like he really did a turn
it's one of the most popular religions
in the world but it's also it's a
religion that Embraces discipline you go
through Ramadan you're not eating all
day you're not drinking any water all
day that belief system helps people
keeps them disciplined keeps them on a
good path I mean how many great Fighters
are like devout Muslims Islam originally
was the the and scientists man I mean
they were they if you look at this the
early Islamic World they were the ones
that were the most advanced at one point
in history they were the ones that were
pushing mathematics and science and and
reason and logic you know it's just it
it comes in Cycles man it comes in
cycles of suppression and dominance and
you know the the real concern is
Unstoppable dictatorships like China and
Russia and then when when there's no
dissent and no discussion I've got a lot
of friends who are Arabs um I spent a
lot of times Middle East um I love them
they're awesome uh there are some
factions that say we got to go blow
ourselves up and that's obviously wrong
factions of Christianity too right
100 absolutely in America right and I
guarantee you absolutely we were being
invaded and attacked by Muslims all the
time it'd probably be some radical
fundamentalist Christians that would
want to do the same thing right that
some some Muslim sex have done remember
he was was having a lot of islamophobes
and he was just really one-sided but him
also he was been talking recently you've
done some videos on that and we give
credit where credit is due because we're
not trying to remain in some hostile
environment I mean of course we're going
to call people out for their mistakes
their blunders or we've tried to do it
in a respectful manner hoping that the
door is open that if the people want to
come respectfully and sit with us talk
with us not just talk about us talk with
us and we're have a seat at the table
and I think this is going towards that
path for the greater good the greater
picture you know and the public may not
know that there was a time where Joe
Rogan was actually on his show and he
had a a particular t-shirt on which had
the word rezevich on it is it redovic
right you remember yes yes I thought to
myself this looks unbelievable what what
is this familiar and I realize wait
Eddie redsovich so he had your surname
that was my last name why did he so tell
me why did he have your surname on his
T-shirt
I was just wondering I said look how
Allah God Almighty these are like signs
it's a sign for him I don't know he had
he had literally he had like my that was
from my school he had my my rhizovic Jiu
Jitsu t-shirt on his uh and we point we
pointed that out we got some uh we had
some Jiu Jitsu going we got some
nutrition here you're not the only one I
mean well I'm not the only fan of your
Jiu Jitsu oh yeah yeah the only fan of
your Jiu Jitsu because I mean uh we've
got someone who's actually of note who
is wearing your T-shirt I mean let's
take a look at this
oh
hey that that's our buddy we were
actually that's uh our friend Joe Rogan
that's your T-shirt though isn't it yeah
that is uh our t-shirt yeah that's your
surname on that that's my surname in in
uh yeah that's my last name because you
made a video right with one of the uh
with one of them before about about
um Joe Rogan and some of his
um some of the things that he said about
Islam yeah what do you think this is a
kind of peace offering or what is this I
don't know I think you know like I like
I mentioned in the video we did yeah we
really wanted to reach out to Joe yeah
yeah in a benign a nice kind way that
shows you something very important which
is that the work that you're doing at
the dean show and the work that's being
done in terms of trying to to put our to
kind of put our two cents if you're like
in the narrative it's having such an
impact that someone like Joe Rogan who's
considered to be like the top podcaster
maybe in the United States maybe one of
the top leading ones in English-speaking
world
uh that he's actually putting your
t-shirt on I think it's to be honest I
think it's a sign of respect I think
he's done that because he's seen your
videos he's clearly seen our videos
together that what we've put forward and
he's put that on to show look we're not
against each other I think he's done
that as a sign of respect and he also
respects the fact that you're also a
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner people
don't know about you you I don't know
how many stripes you've got now on black
belt is it five stripe four stripes or
four degree yes which is for those who
don't know that is it takes years and
years and years to achieve that that is
you know that takes more than 10 years
to achieve for the average person maybe
12 13 years and so he respects that
because he's a black belt himself and he
sees a Muslim and he sees many Muslims
like yourself in the UFC and so on
coming on um he's coming on and speaking
about his religion in a very respectful
way
which shows you that your approach has
reached the highest levels uh Eddie
which is something you should be really
proud of alhamdulillah
accept it from you from me from all of
us and continue to bless his work and
tell me so you being now in a position
where we've come a long way having this
emergency meeting and now some of these
names that you mentioned hopefully
they'll put this together why is this
important why is this and how is this
something this is historic I think it is
and you were mentioned you were you were
mentioning you were mentioning like if
you look down 50 years you said
something brilliant and people are not
looking you know ahead if you want to
look 50 years repeat what you were
saying that's very important nowadays if
you look at what what teenagers study in
secondary schools they study the civil
rights movement because there was some
Paradigm shifting cultural moments you
know this study what happened with
African-Americans to study feminism they
study all these kind of things that
happened in 96 in particular yes those
legislators have changed but there was
also a Grassroots movement which was
important enough to be studied 50 to 60
70 years later
I think what we're seeing with the
cultural Wars uh nowadays is significant
enough to be a historical event and I
think that because of social media we as
the Muslims do have now a voice in that
particular historical moment and people
are going to be studying that I do
believe that people could be studying
this 56 years from now it says
historically significant as all those
things that were happening at that time
because quite frankly it's even more
watched it's even more popular pound for
pound you know then those things were at
that time the only thing that's not
there is legislative change but I think
it's as historically significant of
what's going on in the 1960s and so
people will be looking at figures like
Joe Rogan and studying them I think 60
years from now potentially figures like
Patrick David and I said that to him I
said that people were looking at
valuetainment doing courseworks and
studies and Theses about what was said
what was their stance with Muslims or
what was their stance of Jews and was
there yeah what was their sons of
Christians and and so on and so forth
these things are very important now it
constitutes the Legacy the cultural
Legacy of the history really the the
sociological History of the United
States of America
and the Western General and we have a
place in the on the table as you've
mentioned and and said as a Muslim so we
have to be careful how we strategize so
that we don't agree to everything and we
don't disagree to everything we we bring
ourselves a favorable result which means
that we need to be wise with these
things and I think having this emergency
meeting with Patrick David was the wise
thing to do and his response was in turn
the wise response I think he's a very
pragmatic person and you can't be that
successful in business as he is and have
you know an Empire of valuetainment and
whatever unless you are pragmatic like
that so I think the more we think about
the collective interest the more things
are going to go right for everybody
I like uh and it made sense on both
sides this is why this meeting was so
important having this meeting now we can
see like what the way you were
presenting everything and then he was
also he got into his very transparent he
was showing his emails how he gets
things you know the short amount of time
this that and the other and really not
knowing on one end who this person on
the other these islamophobes career
islamophobe and then you also you know
now it's coming down to the the time
that you gotta you you need to know like
what's going on so you can better
prepare you so you can see things you
know from both sides and then at the end
and just coming together because these
people that were lined up I mean these
are these are career islamophobes these
were people with blood on their hands
these are people who now you had uh you
know the Andrew brevik was it I'm there
and he was mentioned in his Anders
brevik in his Manifesto was mentioned
these people so this was very sensitive
also now that you I mean this is not a
problem for you at the end this is
something that's your specialty and
you've dealt with people like this but
um it was nice to see how he had
presented things you could see where he
was coming from you and then how
everything just at the end it came out
to a positive ending what were your
thoughts about that absolutely and I
think I mean the way he presented it was
that he had no idea
um who these people were and I have
reason good reason to believe that
especially in the second person who is
Rashid a hamimi he wouldn't know who he
was because most of his content is in
the Arabic language so that unless you
have access to that like fair play you
won't know who he is but these people
have had strong anti-islamic sentiments
and they you know they attack the
prophet of Islam not just that not not
just the fact that they attacked the
prophet of Islam and Muslim people but
they they effectively try and make life
harder for Muslim people in the west I
mean some of the organizations and what
they're dealing with they are making
things harder for Muslims in the west
and in a way we can't really deal with
that and it's imagine having a you know
a podcast where the premise of it is to
try and create Bridges and you bring
people who frankly are trying to break
all bridges I mean these people who have
no interest in collaborating with Muslim
people uh it was it was a bit kind of
off-key from that perspective but I
think the fact that we explained to him
who these people were
he understood at least where we were
coming from you know why why would a
Muslim in the first instance be angry
that you've invited these two people and
then you've invited then you've done
these kind of things and then
certain particulars were not very clear
it just added to the frustration but he
was very understanding and we appreciate
that and that's uh where it needs to be
is is a good negotiator and I have to
give him credit where credit is due
and you see that at the same time before
that he was uh talking about he had
Candace Owens on you heard of Candace
Owens and every time I see so many of
these conservatives Christians come out
and they talk about you would think
she's almost she's talking to in in a
way that for instance she was talking
about the and this goes in Under the
Umbrella of things that we have in
common that we can talk about and you
invite us to the table to talk about
these things see the Muslim perspective
she was talking about the Demonic
culture now that's affecting the youth
the over sexualization of children I'm
sure your brain you're like man you got
a lot to we got a lot to say on this
right those women of selling themselves
only fans Instagram they're just out
there but they're just naked and looking
at the Kim Kardashian's others as role
models and how she was a part of that
lifestyle but she changed for the better
the fem the feminism and the uh
demasculation of men uh the the mother
being looked down instead of like a home
engineer you know choosing and she was
actually asked on his program what would
you rather be a career woman or a home
engineer they say home engineer I call
it a home engineer or a mother and she
said a mother and then she talked about
so many of these things that we we just
we're on board with what would you say
absolutely and that's what we should be
looking for we should be I mean the
Quran instructs us effectively to look
for common ground I mean the most common
of grounds we should be looking
obviously still hate monotheism from a
theological perspective and try and draw
conclusions from that
um but these things are also things
which are commonalities between Islam
and let's say Christianity or
traditional versions of it and at the
end of the day I mean there's there's
work to be done here I think that we
have kind of neglected the conservative
community in the west we've neglected
them in the dawa in a way which isn't
really I think justifiable we need to
look at them as individuals who can
contribute and we can contribute to them
because I think that from a dialogue
perspective from from a evangelizing
perspective we can bring a lot of them
to our side in fact uh by just
explaining to them that these are the
ways that we live a lot of people come
Muslim just by looking at how we as
Muslims live our lives so I think
there's a lot of work to be done
and probably there's evidence to show I
mean I haven't got it in front of him
but that if you are going to collect
converts if you like you're more likely
to do it from communities which have
these kinds of inclinations and belief
systems in the first place then for
example from communities which may be
still debating whether or not biological
sex are key determinants of actual sex
of whether or not sex male and female is
a thing or is a social construct so
we're more likely to get people agreeing
with Islam from let's say the
conservative side then people who still
don't know what a male is or a female is
and and they think that everything is a
social construct so we do need to look
at these things properly and we need we
need to build Bridges where Bridges can
be built and access to be honest new
audiences but we have to be able to do
it on our terms or at least on agreeable
terms unfair and Equitable terms and
that's what the purposes of that
conversation was because quite frankly
me and you Eddie and Ali dawa and all
these kinds of people
if you look at the kind of languages
that were available in all three of us
and the dawa now we're in a good place
in that hour we're in a good place in
Nadal I mean I just visited turkey and
there is a particular Channel called
towards eternity and now we were doing
kind of collaborations with them they've
got three and a half million subscribers
just in a type of language they've got
like one and a half million in English
and their turn channels got like 600
million channels views almost I mean
that that is more than the Turkish
population times five or six I don't
even know how that happened but the
point is is that we're in a good place
now we have an ecosystem which covers 15
World languages and is seen by hundreds
of millions of people uh and you know on
different platforms on social media we
could never have dreamed of this 20 to
30 years ago this is undreamable because
we would need to put millions and
millions if not billions of dollars into
something like this for it to happen
like if we were to approach a media
company and say look we want to have
half a billion views on you know in this
particular language so fine or you'd
need to bring to the table 10 billion
dollars or 15 20 billion dollars and you
like for example you'd need this or that
Allah has opened the door for us where
we can use the internet to give Dao to
people and as such as an ecosystem we
have become an extremely formidable
force in more than one languages in many
of the world languages so we don't need
in a sense even if we don't have
exposure from these great big names in
America and these huge figures like
Jordan Peterson or like Andrew Tay or
like uh Patrick but David or like uh Ben
Shapiro who we mentioned in the
discussion or any of these figures we
still are able to reach hundreds of
millions of people so we have something
to bring to the table
and uh and that's what I think they've
recognized and as such I think we need
to capitalize on that in ways which will
in which will be win-win for every uh
Community because uh that is one of the
laws of success I think win-win at the
end of the day even Stephen Covey
mentions in his seven highly effective
laws of uh success or whatever the book
is called well I think win-win is one of
the one of the laws we have to look at
where we can benefit each other because
there is a lot of benefits we had
I want to focus on this term with
Integrity respect and when people know
when they we don't shy away from debate
from discussions and getting the
elephant I call it getting the elephant
out of the room and a lot of the
differences that you would say I listed
a lot of things that we can talk about
but I think there's not too many we can
go one of the major things is what
revolves around Jesus you'll hear a lot
of it's unfortunate a lot of Christians
this would help dispel those myths and
to put that wall down to break through
those barriers where Christians will
look at Muslims like the Antichrist and
many know don't know simple basic things
that we actually when we say when we say
it this is not something that we're
trying to like win you over but it's the
truth it's a pillar it's one of the of
our beliefs the articles of Faith to
believe and love Jesus is this correct
that he was the Messiah that he what we
how can you be Antichrist when you love
Christ that you believe in his return
that you believe in his uh Immaculate
Conception it was born of a Virgin Mary
that he did many wondrous Miracles all
by the permission of God and that we
call him by what he was called in the
Bible as a prophet a mighty messenger
and we say peace be upon him when I did
I've done many shows with different
Christians one in particular Owen
Benjamin it comes to mind he was on The
Joe Rogan show famous comedian and actor
uh not actor but uh comedian yeah I mean
he says I'm acting he was with the
louder Crowder he was a scriptwriter and
he knows many of the Saint Patrick
People Patrick knows he's on Joe Rogan's
show when me and him had just had a nice
discussion going back and forth
Christian Muslim and then he has his
viewing audience they call him the Bears
they were like man how in the world were
we so
so just brainwashed and so deceived and
they actually for 20 years you read some
of the things that they were saying
they're like I cannot believe that we
were thinking this way of Muslims
they're duped with everything else they
don't believe you know uh the news they
call it fake news but with this they
were swallowing it hooked Line and
Sinker but just from us having a nice
back and forth conversation they were
like you know it was like the veils were
off so that's why this is so important
your thoughts on that I think a lot of
the reason why is because of foreign
policy like honestly if you look at what
Republicans have had to do in the last
20 to 30 years in order to justify Wars
in Iraq and Afghanistan which even
Donald Trump nowadays uh doesn't agree
with him and he doesn't agree with those
Wars he sees as a waste of American Tax
paying money but let's put that to the
side the point is is that in order to
cut to get people on board with such
Wars and to to Rally public support you
need to dehumanize effectively people
you need to make them the enemy and so
of course there's going to be a kind of
a mixture of political uh rallying and
also religious rallying so they they'd
have to make Muslims and Islam the enemy
not just Muslims and that's what I think
has created this Rift with Republicans
nowadays Republicans uh in America most
likely are may have a negative impact on
Islam because of some of the terrorism
and some of the things that they they
want to or some of the kind of
propagandists uh who have been trying to
rally for for these wars have used and
so what we want to show is that this is
you have to understand that it's not
just Democrats Republicans have to
understand that it's not just Democrats
and liberals who have been pulling the
wool over their eyes it's been their own
as well it's been Republicans who've
been pulling the wool over the eyes and
in fact probably in a more pernicious
way in some cases especially to try
and justify certain Wars and so this is
an ample example I mean if you think of
what other world religion what other
major world religion has as a pillar of
faith if you like one of the things that
you have to believe in The Messengers
and Jesus is one of the top High Caliber
Messengers as the Quran calls them with
the top High Caliber prophets the top
ones so if someone disbelieves in Jesus
Christ or this believes in the
Immaculate Conception The Virginity the
Perpetual virginity of Mary if someone
disbelieves in the fact that Mary
existed that Jesus existed that he was
the Messiah that he raised the the Dead
with God's permission that he done he
killed the blind with God's permission
he killed the leper with God permission
and all those things if someone
disbelieves in those things that they
could not be a Muslim and disbelieve in
those things there's no other religion
which is a major world religion by way
of demography that excommunicates a
population
for having these beliefs Judaism in fact
you must disbelieve in that Jesus you
know a Jewish person today to believe
that Jesus Christ was the Messiah that
would be a blaspheming thing to believe
that would be a sacrilegious thing to
believe so on this issue at least from a
Christian perspective the Muslim
position on Jesus Christ is much closer
to them than the Jewish position but you
wouldn't think that
uh if you listen to some of these War
propagandists who want to make you
believe that Christianity and Islam uh
have nothing in common at all which is
absolutely uh false because this is one
of the deepest things that anyone can
have in common a figure his existence
the Messiah status his prophetic status
because in the Bible it says that he was
a messenger as well you know
so they believe it was a messenger and
all these things which are similar this
is something which I think that you know
the Christian Republican community in
the west need to understand that there
is no need for Unnecessary hostility
you know there is more commonality than
one thing's and one is to look at things
objectively now removing uh you know
emotion from the picture uh and removing
all these hostilities that you may have
had injected into you by these War
propagandists for strategic interests
which you have been lied to believing
would be uh the American interest this
is not the American interest you've lost
the America has lost billions trillions
of pounds in these wars how much is it I
said well I don't know how much this is
yeah yeah I mean trillions of pounds on
this war they put the economy back I
mean they went into Afghanistan to a
place which is no American in zero
American interest in Iraq zero killing
innocent people if if the America if the
good American people were able to see
young Iraqi people being killed
children women and and so on they would
no way support this but this has been
kept away from them so and even Donald
Trump as I say who's now running I'm not
sure running for public prison again he
he acknowledges this and I think there's
a growing Trend within Republicans to
acknowledge this fact but that's where a
lot of the facilities come from if you
understand that then you understand that
there's more work we can do to build
Bridges and to understand each other
properly and to understand the religion
of Islam properly because you cannot you
cannot coexist with someone who you
don't understand
we're not asking for you to convert I
mean that would be something we we would
like no problem of course we would like
that because we believe that if you
become a Muslim that your sins will be
forgiven all this kind we would love for
you to become but we are not forcing or
pressuring or whatever trying to
convince or sell the religion of Islam
in fact the opposite is true we just
want you to know what it is and then you
can make a decision but you need for for
that to be coexistence you need to know
what we're all about what Islam is and
have an objective neutral view of it
that you can make your decision but
where you're getting right now
Islamic confirmation is from uh war
propagators and that should be something
Republicans in America understand
that's beautiful I like that analysis
and just for someone to think you have a
war you want to push and Patrick Ben
David he talks about this he talks a lot
what is it uh black wood and it's many
of these uh industrial
military-industrial complexes and now
look if there's no Wars there's no money
to be made so we got to make an enemy so
you make the Muslims enemy but most
people they're not going to just want to
go attack human beings under the cross
of of the world so then you got to
demonize right you got to demonize and
make a fake Boogeyman and people are
starting to see see through this this is
brilliant uh brilliant how you put this
uh together just a couple more things
and then one more thing uh on this is
stop what what you have is many people
trying to push their interpretation
and have us swallow it uh it's like
someone coming along and saying no no
they're saying I'm this type of
Christian you believe this Daniel and
the person is trying to push a KKK
version type onto the Christian they're
trying to trying to these islamophobes
and others trying to misinterpret the
texts
cherry picking and putting things not in
their proper place and then pushing this
to the people you see a ton of this
happening don't you let us interpret our
text scholarly we have a scholarly
nutrition the right way you're not going
to come and tell us how to interpret our
religion you see a lot of this happening
we do see a lot of that happening and
that's why I think a lot of the
conversation needs to happen with people
that
effectively have the self-dignity and
integrity to say okay what do they say I
mean look there's two kinds of cases
that are made about Islam and Muslims
and we have to separate them there's
theological cases and sociological cases
so the theological case is to say that
okay Islam States X Y and Z so the
islamophobe may say well let's just say
the anti-muslim person may say
uh Islam states that you have to you can
kill civilians you can kill
non-combatants right that's the
positioning okay so that's what they
they're saying and then they the other
one will say
that the other person may go further and
say well actually Muslims believe in
that as well so Muslims believe in so
not only does Islam say it but Muslims
believe it
so these are two separate claims really
one is a theological claim and one is a
sociological claim if if one is making a
theological claim then they have to
consult the scriptures and they have to
consult a tradition in which case we
will say okay well look you know the
prophet said you cannot kill
non-combatants one two three four five
it will blade out like that but if they
say Muslims believe now that's a
sociological claim so if you bring out
Pew research and say well actually
according to Pew
um if there are some countries when when
they're asked about Isis 100 gave them a
disapproval rate 100 of population of
Muslim I mean that is so difficult to
find in anything polled 100 disapproval
rating right so then that's a
sociological claim so if we say Okay
whether it's a sociological claim or a
theological claim you lose here you
cannot force this upon our populations
and our people but if you say no
actually we've read this verse and it
must mean that you guys believe this and
all of you are practicing and there's a
collective to clear going on and 100
disapproval rating on some countries in
Pew research do just happens to be a
massive conspiracy then the conversation
must end there because then there's
nothing we can do to try and convince
you you are effectively projecting and
superimposing an image of Islam which
you want to be true whether we try and
disprove it to you theologically or
sociologically or not whether we show
you the evidence or not you're always
going to have the same opinion
and if some people in The American or
Western populations want to believe that
this is what Muslims believe in order to
justify whatever it is Wars it may be or
hostilities then that's where the
conversation collapses but as you said
they have to be Integris enough
to be able to to accept our basically
what we're saying about it this is what
we interpret this is how we interpret it
this is what the centers of power in the
Islamic World say if you say well Azad
may say this and Medina University may
say this and Dearborn may say this and
that was a lot may say that and these
are a major sense of academic Powers but
we think the Muslims they're all lying
about it
in the classical tradition said this in
this color they're all lying about it
100 is approved rating some country
Muslim World against Isis they're lying
about it there's nothing I can do to
help you in that case what you're doing
is you're you're you're smashing your
head against the mountain and expecting
a result so if if the American people or
the Western people want the truth
they're gonna have to start pulling the
willow you know off their eyes and start
looking at the truth with both eyes open
and that's what we're calling them to
last thing I want to mention uh two more
points one is when you said lying this
whole thing is just absurd when you hear
this term Takia and now you know even
some Muslims now because there is
certain things in Islam obviously when
you're trying to reconcile between
people Your Wife puts you a bad meal and
then you're saying hey no honey it's
actually good when it's not that good
you know even this this is how truthful
Islam is and we know the evil of nature
of you know how so many Hadith that you
can bring over and over and statements
of the liar this is somebody that you
know is is looks so down upon now Takia
being a concept that is not according to
the uh Sunni according to the Orthodox
but you have some sect I believe Shiites
who use this concept this is a
particular sector the Shiite but what do
you have for people who now they turned
they they push this term of these
Muslims because how are you going to sit
at a table and have a nice discussion
when in the back of his mind he's
thinking these guys are doing tequila so
the trust is just not there how do you
address that you can look at any
religious tradition and find like Paul
for example he says I'm a Jew with the
Jew and the Gentile with the Gentiles I
mean there's many verses in the Bible
which can give you the impression that
you can be pragmatic to like in order to
lie if you want to do that yeah Paul
says that he says if my lie this is not
to disrespect or anything but this is in
the in the Bible is it if my Lie by I'm
by lying I'm bringing people to the
truth then how am I called a sinner
exactly right so there's lots of Paul
does this you know ad nauseam in the in
his books that is 13. that's actually
that's the key if we want to be this is
the Kia yeah but I I would never try and
superimpose this okay well Paul says
this in in the Bible and therefore
Christians you know two billion
Christians around the world they all
have read this they've all interpreted
it that way and therefore they're all
doing okay if you sit with the Christian
there's a culture of lying that they
believe that would be a very unjust
thing unjust no we won't do that we've
met Christians we know like we live with
them you know effectively in our
countries in our places and at the end
of the day it's not the behavior that we
have seen exhibited by these people so
at the end of the day I think there has
to be a degree of integrity and degree
of honesty and sincerity when we're
approaching these things because when
people come and say that oh you must be
saying this because of this and they're
creating a cause effect and then a fake
sociological case and say well whatever
you say here is uh null and void because
because you you're imposing then this
effectively stunts uh as a conversation
what we want to do is we want to have a
conversation with people where they
respect where we're coming from or
expect our interpretations where they
understand why we're coming to our
conclusions and and that's really it and
so
if we're able to have these
conversations with with Christians and
Jews and other people then that's the
first step towards coexistence it's a
proper step towards coexistence they
need to be able to understand that in
our in our in our faith tradition we
wouldn't lie about what our faith
constitutes there's very severe warning
about that in fact
the Quran says
that one of the worst things is that you
say about Allah that which you don't
know and the prophet Muhammad he said
that
um
whoever lies about me intentionally let
him prepare his seat in the Hellfire and
this has been narrated by more than 42
companions it's one of the most narrated
hadiths in all of Hadith traditions
whoever lies about me intentionally then
let him let him prepare his seat in the
Hellfire
and as you've mentioned there's so many
hadiths talking about the importance of
speaking the truth and that if you're
lying it leads to the Hellfire
effectively and all those kind of things
so we wouldn't lie in compromise on our
religion uh that would be that'll be
weak that will be a weak behavior and in
fact the Quran says that if we did that
that Allah would replace us with people
who will well
they don't fear the blame of the blamers
so we're not fear any of the opponents
we tell people what we think our belief
is uh but as I say
they must have the Integrity to come
forward and listen to what we have to
say and that's it and this is the first
step towards co-existence of course the
interlocutors that were going to come we
don't even mention their names but they
don't have this approach unfortunately
both of them have this approach of
superimposing Islamic beliefs on
populations both of them want us to or
want the Western people to believe that
in fact if the populations if these
These are dangerous people the Muslims
are dangerous people for X Y and Z
reason this is what it says in their
books and they all believe this they're
all doing this lying and deceptive and
this kind of paranoia uh you know that
they're planting on the people and
pushing and encroaching on them on the
population is exactly what's stunting
our growth as communities and our
ability to cook this with each other and
that's what happened when you got paid
provocateurs you got these are paid the
islamopholes this is how they make their
livelihoods so obviously they have to do
this and they're giving the it's
straight The Fringe element
interpretation uh to the general public
uh we got to cut out a couple things
came to my mind the Quran you mentioned
the Quran verbatim word of God Almighty
the creator of Love uh you mentioned it
and it came to me the passage of the
Quran describing the Christians in there
uh do you know which one I'm talking
about the passage of those who are
devout and worship and when they hear
the words of God can you go and share
that with us can you also share another
thing of the Prophet Muhammad's dialogue
even in his own mosque with the Jews and
the Christians and three when he saw the
injustices happening in his community
how he made a pact and he worked
together against those injustices
well the actually there's been many
packs that have been done between the
prophet Muhammad and the people of the
book and this is something which a lot
of people don't want to admit but it's
mentioned in our most early sources
has actually uh who was the one of the
people that were entrusted with
codifying the Sunnah one of the earliest
State authorized codifiers of the
sunnahan Azuri he has an entire book
which details inside of it the
constitution of Medina and how the
prophet Muhammad sallam actually in
enshrined rights in this pact or
agreement between Muslims and Jewish
people who were another minority group
uh with with the prophet and that he
would protect their wealth and their
their lives and this is a very famous
passage which they find very difficult
to deal with and a lot of them when I
was reading their works I found that
they found it extremely difficult to
deal with and so this is one aspect that
Islam has always allowed Christians and
Jews to live within their own Frameworks
in fact this is how deep it is to live
within their own Frameworks they have
their own courts where they can have
their own books legislating for their
own communities yes and they were not
forced to become Muslim which is what
some people say
there's no compulsion in religion that
truth has been made clear from falsehood
and the quranic message about Jews and
Christians is that they are not all the
same
they're not all the same and that some
of them you can trust in some of them
you cannot trust this is the kind of
nuance
that is that that is actually it shows
high level precision and sophistication
in dealing with a major population
instead of what they're doing in fact
because they're saying all Muslims are
like this or most Muslims are they're
dangerous people that's actually
unsophisticated sociological analysis
aside from being false it's
unsophisticated sociological analysis
the Quran has a different kind of
methodology it says that some of them
that if you give them one dinar they
will not give it back to you
and some of them that if you if you give
them a kintar which is effectively like
a horde of money you add the lake you
give it back to you you know so so in
other words some Christians and Jews are
trustworthy some of them they're not
trustworthy even if you give them one
coin they will not give it to you
have to be watching over him in order
for them to do that so Christians the
Jews according to the Islamic conception
are not all the same that's probably one
of the most Fair things anyone can say
about anyone sociologically and
islamically the same thing can be said
about Muslims themselves the Quran says
there are three types of Muslims in the
Quran some of them
oppressive to themselves some of them
are mid mid-range and some of them are
racing in Good Deeds so some Muslims
themselves are all the same Christians
and all the same Jews and all the same
and Muslims are all the same in
temperament and personalities and
behavior and so this is a this is the
sophisticated sociological slash
psychological analysis that the Quran
puts forward that we as Muslims believe
in and the verse that you were
mentioning was talking about some of
them will hear the verses some of the
Christians and Jews they will hear the
verses
they will cry when they hear those
verses because of what they have
recognized from the truth
you see so there is there is so much
praise in fact it's not just there's
this Praise of the clergy let's be
honest I mean this um
some people that have been entrusted
with the Torah
and they were they were not sufficient
in in in holding that they're like
donkeys with with books on their backs
so there's there's criticism of the
Jewish clergy and how they dealt with
the books
so woe to those who buy the purchase the
book with their own hands and they say
it's from God so they can buy with it a
poultry price
they threw the book behind their back on
the another verse it says
that they changed the word outside of
its context so this they've changed the
word they were not entrusted with it
there's lots of criticism of of the
Jewish clergy and the Christian clergies
but there's also lots of praise and is a
healthy analysis unfortunately in some
Court in some quarters and these
Republican areas we don't find this
healthy analysis and it's high time we
start doing that
and this has been the criticism by many
Christians themselves they're seeing the
sellout you know of what's Happening you
know with the alphabet movement and the
churches allowing you know certain
people coming into church and disrupting
you know the relationship between male
so they also see this themselves and the
Quran is making this beautiful balance
with that said
um anything else we had this emergency
meeting looking forward to the great
things inshallah for a greater good in
store having this meeting with Patrick
with very very uh came out very nice
we're going to watch the space they're
going to see because if you're going to
be co-hosts as well I mean some of that
you're going to be watching your space
the dean show space watching Myspace
Channel all these channels because and
that's why they should be subscribing to
this channel so that all the
notifications will come up especially
the dean show which is one of the the
you know the most important Islamic
channels on the internet I'm sure
they've already subscribed them if they
haven't shame on them but that's
something else I'm only kidding but uh
the point is is that I think that if
people watch the space and see what
happens if we get favorable terms and if
we're able to mitigate everything we're
not in a rush because at the end of the
day we're negotiating on behalf of the
community we're not doing it for
ourselves it's not a bit about a bit of
Limelight here and there because we're
kind of satiated from all of that anyway
that's not something that we in need of
but what we do want to do is create
balance and create Community cohesion
build Bridges and uh put forward the
Islamic message of tahit which we hope
we will be able to do to Greater
audiences so people watch the space and
see if we can actually do that and it
will be pretty epic I think if we do
inshallah everyone thank you my brother
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