because she
got to know me as somebody that
really hated islam this is where i found
david wood apostate prophet the
so-called christian prince now i am
learning more about muhammad quite
amazing because i haven't seen a passage
like that within the bible and that was
absolutely mind-blowing to me as i said
i grew up hating islam hating muslims
all of that people are partying people
are drinking
they don't care they're in their 30s
they still don't have kids and he said
what that's what muslims believe in
that's weird
i said no
that's what we believe in i might
convert to islam right now
[Music]
greetings of peace my next guest is a
macedonian orthodox christian his family
is from the balkans he was baptized from
birth grew up in germany his only
experience with islam was through
seeing muslims who didn't practice it
properly
and there were some really bad examples
of it so that wasn't an option he ended
up traveling the world and was convinced
that religion was just a bunch of
cultural norms he returned back to
europe and felt a
deep yearning for god he felt empty
abandoned alone so we returned back to
christianity this is where it gets very
interesting he was invited to read the
quran by some muslims so he thought yes
no problem i'm going to read the enemy's
book and find the devil in it
so let's find out what happens next with
our guest bobby how you doing bobby hey
eddie i'm doing good thank you for
having me
thanks for accepting the invitation
thank you very much
so did we do that introduction justice
is that kind of the timeline i would say
so man that was a fantastic summary
couldn't have done it any better myself
in my own video
so tell me you uh this is this video is
very very interesting so
tell us what happens from there now
people are excited to know so you're
like okay i'm going to read the enemy's
book and find the devil in it did you
find the devil in it
yeah as i said in my own video i really
tried hard to find the devil within
but
i couldn't find it at all because how
could i in a book that worships god
first and foremost
so for that i would really have to go
through mental gymnastics
to somehow convince myself that this is
a devil's book of course i understand
however that from a christian orthodox
perspective
the faith is based on the crucifixion
and the rising of christ obviously
therefore from that standpoint you will
see the devil written all over the book
however as i said in my video already
innately
i had humongous issues with the trinity
to begin with and this is when i read
the quran it just clicked
right away
now you also talk about having been
influenced by some of the leading
islamophobes that are out there that
kind of pumped pumped you up also can
you talk about this absolutely man
should i go back and tell you about
my experience with muslims or should i
just talk about the islamophobes both
both okay
so in order for the viewers to really
understand as eddie said yes my parents
are from macedonia i grew up in germany
in macedonia the last conflict that we
had with the albanians which are muslims
that was in 2001. i was roughly 14 years
by that time
and this is what i've been taught
those muslims want to attack us they
want to take away our country they hate
christianity and to be fair there were
incidences where the albanians shot fire
on churches so there were incidences
like that for me that confirmed it of
course and i said well the muslims hate
us so therefore
why would i ever look into islam to
begin with they were always the enemies
and this is what i've been fed in
germany as i said in my video as well
all i've seen is
a lot of criminality when it comes down
to muslim youths
not saying that everybody was criminal
of course but in my surroundings
where i grew up
many of them were involved in all kinds
of criminality dealing drugs
prostitution even etc etc you name it so
therefore i got an even worse image of
islam
when i found back to christian orthodoxy
because this is what i've been baptized
with
i got really into the christian
worldview and with that of course
christian apologetics and this is where
i found david wood
i looked slightly into people like
apostate prophet this how he wants to
call himself or a
so-called christian prince
and those people were very very vocal
about islam
essentially they didn't talk much about
christianity to begin with they talked a
lot about islam and how bad it was
and first i just
sat back and said wow i'm confirmed in
my faith that's absolutely right what
they're saying obviously that's my
experience with muslims as well and this
confirms why they are the way that they
are this is why they are criminals i
even said
because their religion is violent
obviously david wood showed it
this was really my perspective
honestly eddie i have to say and i'm
going on a little tangent here but for
my wife it is the most surprising
that i now
read the quran because she
got to know me as somebody that
really hated islam
i didn't just dislike islam eddie i
hated it with a vengeance yes
why do you think it is that you have
these people who talk more about islam
instead of their own faith
i mean obviously like with also many
counter movements
it appears that those people don't have
too much going for themselves or are not
too convinced of their own ideology
otherwise they wouldn't have to attack
others ideologies
that's how i see it if you stand on firm
ground
and you are convinced within your own
worldview then all you have to do is
shine a light be an example and others
can follow then you wouldn't have to
dismantle and debunk other things
consistently
yeah that's how i see that you kept
saying i heard you kept
saying this
powerful man powerful you know in your
video explaining what what do you mean
by that
yeah what i meant by that is that just
by reading the quran there were certain
sentences
that were simply as you said powerful
because there were if you look at them
at first sight they seemed simplistic
but then i saw such a depth within those
words
mind you of course i don't speak arabic
so i had to read it in english but
nevertheless
it
appears at first simple but then you
look into the sentence and it gets
deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper
and has such a resonating effect because
ultimately one of my favorite quotes is
allah guides whom he wills right
so that's simple god guides who he wills
okay but if you really look into it
first you could assume
god guides who he wills to the religion
sure but if you further
dig deep into it at least that's what i
did that's how i perceive it
i see that
it holds true in every aspect of life
because god truly guides whomever he
wills how he wills
right now you're in america
you're a host of a show i'm sitting here
in france somebody else is in africa he
guides whomever he wills in the ways
that he wills
so it's just this funneling down effect
which is
beautiful about this book
you also talk about when you open the
quran and you saw
in the english obviously bismillah is in
the arabic the original language
which the quran has been preserved
in but in english it would say in the
name of god the most gracious the most
merciful and you talk about being
fascinated with this can you elaborate
on that
yes it's
as i said for most muslims this probably
just common sense and they are wondering
what i'm talking about because this is
how they learned their religion i assume
but for me it was quite amazing because
i haven't seen a passage like that
within the bible
where the text the verse the surah
starts with glorifying god
so in itself again pretty commonsensical
you would assume that this is how you
should write within a holy book
but i've never seen anything like it and
then i proceeded reading and i noticed
that pretty much every surah starts like
that first there is worship given to the
creator and then it proceeds with the
story and that was absolutely
mind-blowing to me as i said before
simple but powerful yet again
i have nothing like that
in the bible
not to mock the bible yet again i have
to say that the bible if anything is
much more of a collection of different
books and there's a lot of wisdom within
but the structure of the quran i would
say was probably the most fascinating
subject to me because the message
i got it after two or three surahs to be
honest the oneness of god
yeah the structure itself how it builds
up
there is something that i still
quite haven't fathomed yet
when i say simplistic don't get me wrong
as well because i think
that it is much deeper than i can
comprehend right now
and every time we talk
it's just this glimpse in time so now
you're talking to me
tomorrow i might have a different
perspective on the whole subject in two
years time i might have a totally
different perspective on the subject
i believe that it's way deeper than i
can even understand right now
yeah that was the one of the things that
you also
you said that it was the message was
just very clear
yeah absolutely the message is very
clear and moreover eddie
that was so shocking to me because as i
said i grew up hating islam hating
muslims all of that
and therefore the last thing that i
would have thought about is that islam
is the religion of the oneness of god
so yet again i understand for muslims
out there this is crazy because they
know that islam is a monotheistic
religion that is about the oneness of
god but for me i thought it's about
everything else but that
i thought it might be about wearing a
hijab it might be about the jihad
maybe it's about not eating pork
but not about the oneness of god
because
when i
went for my
travels it was 2014.
i left germany behind and i went for an
epic adventure if you will because i
couldn't live in europe any longer i had
many many troubles in europe i never
felt at home in germany and so i left
and i went for a absolute adventure into
the amazon rainforest
where i ultimately met up with the
charmanders
which are so-called medicine men
of the amazonian jungle in peru and in
colombia and i drank their native
psychedelic brew ayuska
so this is a brew that you ingest and
then you go on a vision quest if you
will so you will have visions
whilst consuming that
even there
i experience the oneness of god so of
course as in any tribal setting people
will add all kinds of other things to it
but even in that vision i experienced
nothing but the oneness of god
then when i came back to god when i came
back to christianity this is what i was
looking for because i already had all
the spiritual experience in the world i
wasn't looking for anything more i was
looking for god a direct connection to
him and moreover
something that will manifest it within
this world because i realized
man if i look around people seem to be
in a very very strange state nowadays
family values are completely tossed over
people are partying people are drinking
they don't care they're in their 30s
they still don't have kids and i was
wondering how to bring all of those
experiences into this world how will i
be now how will i be in front of god so
to speak and this is where religion
clicked into place
but
i didn't know as i said that the oneness
of god was the fundament of islam
and this is what i was about to found
out later on then
this is really deep um it's a very
powerful
analysis and story
and you also talk about battling for two
years
with the whole trinity can you talk
about that
yeah eddie
as i said after all of those experiences
i was seeking god as i said and
it might sound naive but i didn't know
about the trinity and this might be
interesting for muslims because muslims
i assume
think that predominantly christians just
believe in the trinity and this is where
we differ
but i would like to make the claim
because growing up with so many balkan
friends
most don't really know about the trinity
my father my mother the christian
orthodox the trinity has never been
mentioned within our household and not
particularly because my father is
against it my father simply doesn't know
about the trinity i told him about the
trinity half a year ago after i studied
islam after i started studying islam
and he said what that's what muslims
believe in that's weird
i said no
that's what we believe in
wow
so this is why i want to give this
message out i know that you and your
show you about building bridges as well
so i just wanted to let you know that
most christians
growing up they don't really know about
the trinity of course they hear about
the father the son the holy spirit etc
but they are not imagining god as a
trinity as a triune subject anyways as i
said
i was seeking god and then it was the
first time that i actually started
looking into orthodoxy so i was the
first one within my firm
within my family to really look into
orthodoxy and to really start studying
the religion because nobody else did it
we went to church for eastern
and for christmas twice per year that's
pretty much it nobody knew about it so
when i found out about it i was
absolutely shocked
and i thought
isn't it the catholics that believe in
the trinity
i thought the catholics then i found out
no it's the protestants as well
so just the jehovah's witness they don't
believe in the trinity that was shocking
to me so the more i looked into it
i had to
come to peace with it and i decided to
make myself believe the trinity because
i found god within christian orthodoxy
so what am i supposed to do now i have
to take the religion as a whole i cannot
just
cherry-pick certain pieces out of it and
make it fit my own agenda because like
that i'm falling back into my own
desires so that okay i take it as a
whole
let me understand the trinity for two
years straight i was looking at it from
every single angle
mind you not finding the word trinity
within the bible either
so listening to church fathers listening
to priests listening to podcasts trying
to wrap my head around it and ultimately
realizing that
the trinity is a concept that has been
around within greek mythology and even
within hindu mythology as well
so it's not something unique to
christianity or christian orthodoxy
and once i
started reading the quran
it just
faded away even though one thing i have
to mention here i just forgot
that i started watching jessica lee
peterson and i know that he was on your
show as well
and he was the only christian that was
against the trinity so he's a unitarian
christian i would say he likes to say
that he's just a christian and it was
him
to begin with
that i started listening to and realized
man
that's what i'm thinking too but you're
the only guy that actually words it
and this is how slowly but surely slowly
but surely i just let go of that belief
system again because i realized that
just an edit belief system it's not
something that it's innately within my
nature to believe it's something that i
have been taught that i tried to
manipulate myself into in order to
understand
yeah
do you mentioning
trying to manipulate yourself into it do
you see that this is what a lot of
people end up doing
they don't question like you you seem
very well read on the topic you know
knowing the history and
you have done your homework but do you
think that many people they just kind of
just
you know just slide in on sundays and
close their eyes and their hearts to
everything and just go with the flow
without really questioning
i mean
now the christian's gonna hate me again
like also often on my channel i always
set up people but that's fine i guess
the christians that i talk to
dear friends close friends family
members
even many of those believe that it is a
mistake
with the trinity but they still identify
as christians
nevertheless and other people that
want to believe it
what i'm questioning is this
is it something that you can experience
within because i and of the firm believe
that god created us in a certain way
that will resonate with his laws and
with his created reality otherwise he
would be just in confusion
so therefore if god reveals himself in a
certain way of course we will never
grasp the totality of god but the
revelation of god has to be relatable to
us
so why would god reveal himself in a
concept that leads to further confusion
within the masses and you see that it
does because you always have those
examples it's actually not one plus one
plus one
but it's a one times one times one and
that equals one it's always one
and i'm just thinking wow
that's
quite the audacity to really believe
that you grasped god like that and now
you understand that he's three in one
how did you experience that i don't know
one person that ever experienced the
trinity firsthand how is that even
possible so i heard of people having
a vision of jesus fine i heard of people
claiming they are filled with the holy
spirit fine
but i never heard anybody really
witnessing the trinity or truly
understanding the trinity in every
single
aspect of it it is an intellectual
hurdle that people have to go through
wrap their minds around and then in the
end be convinced of it
either by other men or by themselves
because they themselves brainwashed
themselves into it and i know those are
harsh words
but i can't see it any other way even if
i look at intellectuals philosophers
that defend the trinity
they have to do such mental gymnastics
in order to defend it and i'm really
wondering
what kind of foundation will that give
you in the long run even the bible you
see
israel your god is one
right that's a quote okay
here you go
so what else do you need now why now do
you have to conceptualize a trinity
within the unity
oh no god is a multiplicity
and not just a simple oneness
okay then he can be four or five as well
you can be six making three thousand
where do you end
why is just the father the holy spirit
and the son part of it why not all the
other prophets then that's what i'm
wondering about how about the angel
gabriel how about all of that let's just
all put it together and make it an
octagon
yeah
how about
when it comes to the topic of jesus in
the quran
you know many christians don't know that
as muslims we love jesus one of the
mightiest messengers just like abraham
moses god sent these messengers to call
people to the worship of one and only
one god to worship the creator alone and
not his creation so when you came to the
story of jesus his miraculous birth
a whole chapter named after his blessed
mother miriam how what kind of effect
what were your thoughts on this and what
kind of effect did it have on you
that i have to say wasn't whilst reading
the quran but prior to that talking to
muslims
because i didn't know obviously like
most that jesus is part of islam at all
and jesus part
of the religion and
yeah once i found out about that it was
at first very very surprising to me
because as i said i grew up hating
muslims yet again
i have to say that here and i believe
that they hate jesus and that they hate
everything that has to do with
christianity i think they simply follow
a guy called muhammad that's how i said
it back in the day so you thought so you
thought before that muslims hated jesus
absolutely 100
yes and then when i found out about the
verses about jesus i thought
yeah well but they don't want to accept
him as the son of god and therefore they
still hate him because they want to love
him as something
something else something that they want
him to be which he's not because he's
obviously the son of god
that's how i saw that
tell me now you
talk about
god is not the author of confusion
he also mentioned this was there less
confusion
going into this concept of the what we
call the tohi the pure monotheism of
islam you know the purpose of life while
we're here you know the moral code
the blueprint for like everything's kind
of just laid out the more you're
studying it it's like
it leaves less to guesswork
absolutely man it's quite amazing
because as i said first and foremost i
didn't know that islam is the religion
of oneness the religion of the oneness
of god
and moreover i have to say that
once i returned to christian orthodoxy
once i returned to god because as a kid
growing up i believed in god like most
people i assume i didn't believe in god
i wasn't too religious
then i had my excursion with a new age
with psychedelics etc etc
and then when i returned to god all of a
sudden i started seeing those patterns
as i said i started seeing
those people they're not really
conducting themselves in a godly fashion
and that applies to all people nowadays
not only talking about muslims or
christians
it seems
that we as a society as a whole and in
this day and age we can talk about one
society almost because
quite clearly this is the push as you
can see that everything has to become
one society one government we're all
doing the same things we're all using
the same technology
and i saw that we are
all
under the same spell it seems maybe
coming from the media maybe from the
institutions that's a topic for another
day
but seeing that we're all in that state
i realized okay when we follow god we
actually automatically become more
conservative
that's what i noticed so up until now i
was making my own rules it's totally
fine if i don't hurt anybody so if i
want to party and meet some girls and
want to have a fun nights out that's
fine nobody got hurt why not it's all
relative doesn't matter but then i
realized hmm
essentially it is not moral it is not
ethical there is always
some damage that is being done
intrinsically and ultimately you're not
getting around becoming more
conservative
and when i became more conservative
through that even though i really want
to distance myself from the political
ideology i'm just talking about
conservative values
then all of a sudden my my eyes opened
up to islam because i realized oh wow
islam is essentially
the most conservative religion there is
because they are conserving family
values like no other
they're conserving the male and the
female roles
like no other they're conserving eating
meat
like no other as well because for people
that don't know i'm an ex-vegan i
dabbled in that as well and nowadays
there's a huge push
for
fake foods
soy schnitzel soy drinks stuff like that
and i saw that islam
reigns supreme in
conserving all of those values and once
i realized that just clicked and this is
when i was really open then to look even
deeper into it and since i did that
man the more i learn the more i love
about it to be totally honest because
the more i learn about it i just see
structures
that make sense and as i said conserve
family structures family values
a
functioning society ultimately
what were your thoughts uh before we
conclude just a few more questions
on there's a beautiful example if you
can imagine someone going around a
beautiful mansion house
and it's just
fascinating to the eye and this is an
example prophet muhammad peace be upon
him is giving and he and then the people
are like but there's one brick missing
in this house he said that i am that
brick
you know so they see the whole house is
finished but there's just one brick
missing
and the house is beautiful it's
fascinating but then just that one is
like standing out so he said i'm that
brick i am the final messenger sent to
mankind what was your experience now
when you start to learn about
from the past and now what you're
learning about prophet muhammad
that is yet again eddie i have to repeat
myself ten thousand times i have to say
powerful first and foremost i love this
analogy very interesting right now have
you heard that have you heard this
hadith
i haven't i hear it for the very first
time it's very powerful yet again i like
the analogy
right now i am learning more about
muhammad
and
ultimately it makes sense of course
listening to it
it adds up for me reading the quran
it simply seemed like a
clarification
like a clarification of the confusion
that was spread beforehand
but as i said already one of my favorite
quotes is allah guides who he wills
so i think that ultimately if you want
to realize it as a clarification you
want to understand there's a
clarification it will clarify many many
things in your mind and will put you at
ease
but if you don't
that's up to you god will let you do
that too and then you will continuously
suffer
even for christians as such
if they want to stay identified as
christians and this is what i'm
at the moment admittedly battling back
and forth
ultimately the quran can guide you out
of the confusion of trinitarian beliefs
if nothing else and put your mind at
rest there so it can bring you back to
worshipping one god if nothing else
and you obviously by now know
you know i often give this example like
if you were living during the time of
abraham this is what
the the beautiful thing for myself also
is that islam wasn't named after a
geographical location it wasn't named
after
a human being it wasn't named after
person place or thing islam just means
to submit your will to one and only one
god that just made so much sense to
myself and then seeing that it was
practiced during the time of abraham and
then that kalima the shahada you know if
you're living during the time of abraham
you would say
there's nothing worthy worship except
allah the creator
and abraham is the messenger during
moses time same thing during jesus time
same thing
rasulullah that there's nothing worthy
of worship confirming the oneness of god
hero israel the lord that god is one and
jesus is the messenger now for all of
humanity we say this is the same same
statement that brings someone into islam
muhammad rasool allah
there's nothing worthy word you see the
pattern it just
it's the consistency so there's nothing
worthy of worship except allah except
the creator of the heavens and the earth
god almighty the one god and muhammad is
his messenger so this is the
the one that obviously brings someone
into islam so you've kind of
uh you know about the shahada and
everything and how simple it is yeah
okay yeah but i never looked at it at
from that angle because i thought
even with the shahada when i
read it the first time i thought ah okay
so you are just talking about muhammad
then
and i didn't think
that essentially you're just confirming
the time frame and with that you're
confirming the rest you automatically
confirm as soon as you say muhammad
rasool allah automatically you include
not exclude all the preceding messengers
jesus moses abraham you you accept all
of them because if you refuse one you
refuse them all you
you can't just pick and choose it's not
a buffet
yeah exactly yeah no i don't yeah i
didn't know that
so that's the beautiful thing and then
obviously you know about the the and
this is the six articles of faith the
five pillars and once somebody
understands this it's kind of like uh
somebody's looking for
you know uh a house that they're gonna
move into
they look for certain things and if
these things fit then they go with it
same thing with islam these are the main
things because the person can end up
studying islam for the their whole life
you got like you understand there's
muslims who have not read the entire
quran like you have
oh yeah
yeah as i said as a christian when you
grow up you
don't automatically get born and then
read the bible on the first day yes
most christians don't read the bible
either yeah well we want to thank you
you're very brave courageous you know
with all of the the hate that's out
there and you stepped above and beyond
it we hope and more people will be
courageous enough to to open up like you
did so you said i'm going to read the
enemy's book
and i'm going to find the devil in it so
i guess that's my last question now uh
did you find the devil in it but the
devil is
you talk about this also that there is
the mention of the devil warning against
the devil saying allah
saying i seek refuge with allah from the
devil
so
how is that part
i want to say that
anybody that
wants to claim that the quran is of the
devil and i encountered plenty of them
in the comment section just read it
yourself
and go from there man
the book
glorifies god
pretty much on every page and warns of
the devil that's basically it in a
nutshell of course there's much more
depth to it as i said but the main
message you cannot mistake
so if that somehow sounds like devil
worship to you i don't think anybody can
help you then
so then i have to refer again to
allah guides who he wills
so we'd love nothing more and we don't
ever i know you're on your journey in
that but we love nothing more to have
you come into the house of peace right
to come into islam and to embrace us to
all to embrace you as
a community of close to two billion all
over and i hope inshallah god willing do
you ever travel to bosnia
never brother i would really really love
to visit i have been to croatia serbia
bulgaria macedonia greece turkey even
but never to bosnia i would really love
to visit inshallah we could reach out if
i next time i go there see if
we can get you down be our guest
and i'm sure i'm headed down this summer
again so in a month or two i'm sure
people a lot of uh bosnians will also
watch this and they'll reach out to you
and
you might even be there before before i
get there
but we also yeah so uh thank you very
much for taking the time to to be with
us on the show and sharing your
experience of a christian who read the
quran
and looked to find the devil in it but
found a lot more
uh things besides that thank you very
much eddie holla
thank you you speak
macedonians do they they speak uh
uh
it's the same yeah very nice yeah yeah i
speak i speak
whatever you want to call it serbo
croatian bulgarian macedonian i speak
english all of those languages very nice
may god bless you thank you so much god
bless you
thanks so much all right thank you and
that was bobby an orthodox christian
who
said i'm going to read the quran to find
the devil in it
and look what happened so what would
happen to you now
why don't you do the same thing and i'm
going to make it easy for you i'm going
to make you
an offer that you can't refuse i'm going
to give you a gift and that gift is
called the quran translated into english
because the original is in the arabic
and i'm going to go ahead and ship it to
you so go ahead and visit us at the
dshow.com to get your free copy of the
quran to see for yourself
what is bobby talking about as an
orthodox christian he read the quran and
you saw what he had to say
let's see what you have to say and after
you read the quran go ahead and send us
send us your reaction to it by video or
by email
preferably by video let's
like to get your reaction after reading
it send it to us so we can share it out
there
and let other people also benefit
so we can go ahead and get
more people to really come to know the
truth for what it is and islam for what
it is and you can go ahead and get the
right information
from the source go to the quran itself
instead of listening to many of the
people out there like our guest was he
was listening to the
top
islamophobes in the country
and
he went to the crown himself and you see
what he had to say so
i want to thank you bobby for being with
us here on the dean's show and sharing
your experiences and i want to thank you
all and we'll see you next time
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