Muslims get by real estate
he's being super strict because because
of you Siri check out other Muslim in
the chat can I
you know you can buy real estate but I'm
Muslim and I try to stay away from Reba
how much stuff do I have to give up pork
fun alcohol said no moderate drinking
isn't good for your health quit you just
have to accept the fact that like
alcohol is not in your best interest as
a man and it's gonna set you up for
failure is it the more you drink the
higher your risk of early death
waste of time though it really is a
waste of time a very good friend
who I've known for a number of years
from the very beginning when he started
it I was among his early guests and
masha'allah our brother Eddie has been
very active in promoting dawa spreading
The Message of Islam and he has now
taken everything to the next level Eddie
has now after a number of years on The
Dean show taking the Dao efforts to the
next level which is that of establishing
Tower Center for the USA he is about to
launch it in its fullness but it has
already started in Florida and he needs
your support this is an effort which
began already some months back and they
need your support for spreading The
Message of Islam in the USA so my
brothers and sisters reach out to
support him we need your support
now
Bismillah assalamu alaikum green is the
peace now when new Muslims enter into
Islam sometimes they get hit with a
shock oh my so I don't claim to be a
great Muslim because
how much stuff do I have to give up pork
fun alcohol women
[Music]
gambling
Muse about everything I can't even
invest my money I Gotta Give Up pork
alcohol fornication gambling riba
interest seems like everything
but shaytan only makes it appear that
way this is far from a reality I say
that these are even more proofs for the
prophethood of prophet Muhammad peace
and blessings be upon him the Quran and
Islam and we'll be getting into all of
this with my next guest an expert on the
topic that we'll be discussing
is a director of the Australian Center
for Islamic finance and the CEO at Olive
Investments almir is also an advisor to
a number of Institutions that provide
Islamic Finance was a
consultant lecturer and board member for
the master of Islamic Banking and
Financial course at lathrobe University
he's also produced a very well-known
video called the wisdom behind
prohibition of riba interests a case
study GFC
but before we bring him out let's see
what one of the most influential Muslims
that people respect today who doesn't
compromise or shy away from speaking the
truth even on this matter
that we'll be discussing and who's that
that's our brother Habib I'm Muslim and
I try to stay away from riba and riba
one of the biggest sin Allah mentioned
in Quran and people underestimate this
Reba can kill not couple people they
kill all like cities countries you know
I know a lot of people like big
businessmen
uh like uh when they realize what is
this riba like
and they have like big contrast they
offer like big Banks yeah they want to
invest and when they understand this is
riba they say no they say no no only one
percent no half person no same thing
half percent or fifty percent no is no
Reba is
how are you my brother alhamdulillah
doing very well what about you
alhamdulillah her blood I mean good good
good it's good and uh I'm very elated
and happy that we have you on the
program to talk to discuss this uh very
important topic that will tie into many
of the other things uh because obviously
Islam is not just a bunch of do's and
don'ts and shaytan makes it appear that
way obviously when people establish a
relationship with their creator based on
pure monotheism tohi now they know the
purpose of life then there are harmful
things out there so it's a blessing that
our creator is telling us these things
so we're not fumbling in the dark and
you're an expert in this area that we'll
be discussing uh tell us a little bit
about yourself well thank you very much
for your very invitation I really enjoy
your program and what you're doing and
being a fellow from Bosnia I enjoyed
that enjoyed that aspect as well uh look
I I've been always interested in sort of
trying to figure out how things work how
things get done in society and whether
it's through building something uh
helping somebody so I was always
interested in different kinds of things
and I get that translates in various
fields and the finance is one of those
areas that touches upon all all
different areas of life so I like to
study I like to read uh like to
understand things and so yeah that's
that's like I guess how I see myself
just a student of continually learning
uh something new every day there's this
video that a lot of people have shared
it's the wisdom behind prohibition riba
interest and you spoke on this topic and
a lot of people they recommend in this
video that you've made what made you so
you've you what made you go down this
route that you got specifically there's
so many branches of Islam that you took
an interest to get deeper into this is
one of the things that when I was
locally studying uh thick or Judas
Prudence Islamic Jude students here at
my local Masjid from my local Sheikh and
I would study this topic and amongst
many many other topics
and when this topic came I was just
fascinating the rules it was a very
surgical very interesting I I couldn't
wrap my head around how does something
like which is such a
seemingly simple thing can be such a
devastating major scene and uh cause so
much grievance it's not just in our
religion but in other religions uh in
our philosophical movements in the
history of mankind so that just buckled
my mind and I started going through that
and the more I digged into that I just
got more and more amazed and you know
two decades I've been reading this
subject and this still is one of the
single most amazing things that you I
keep discovering new things about
this is going to be a very exciting
episode and like I said earlier I said
this for me and for many this is not
something that would bring people away I
I would say this is more of a pro even
approve we have tons of proof the
authenticity of the Islam the signs in
the Quran it's preservation the
prophecies the Miracles of prophet
Muhammad there's so many evidences that
Islam is deed a way of life not created
by man or mankind but from the creator
of mankind and it was sent down and we
have it in its original the Quran and
evidence is just you know overwhelming
and I I say all of these things are more
evidence is because if Muhammad wants to
bring people to his religion to his to
Islam you can look contrast that with
Paul for example who's just saying you
know the um you know the circumcision is
the heart the law is you know been
abrogated and it's so much easier just
to cancel out all these rules and
regulations right but why is Muhammad's
going to be making it harder now
prohibit the prohibition of alcohol pork
and all these things then when we look
deeper into it we see they call cause
havoc in society or it's harmful for us
and and this is what we'll be I hope
people will see also this is another
proof of the prophethood of prophet
Muhammad what do you think about I think
absolutely this is just our lack of
imagination to see how big of an
Evidence is this is a major piece it's
just that we cannot imagine or we don't
see or we don't recognize and in today
age of AI automated thinking we all
adopted one single view on how economics
should be run how things should be and
and we don't realize really what is
happening so more you go into this
wisdom you start realizing oh my God
this is like this is such a such a major
piece why is nobody talking about these
things so yes absolutely agree with you
we're going to make this more
interesting there's a new Muslim by the
name of I don't know if you heard of
this uh this uh brother of ours now and
there's there's two of them there's a
Myron
uh he's a Muslim but he's not he says
look you know I don't want to he's not
really a proxy Muslim you want the best
for him we hope this can also be another
sign for him then there's another
brother named snico he's a new Muslim so
they touch upon this topic that you're
an expert in so we'll get your reaction
to it and we'll go from there Muslims
get by real estate
he's being super strict because because
of you Siri yeah other Muslim in the
chat can I
real estate but he's saying you can't
take a loan on it because you pay
interest with loans but that's like some
of the basics of real estate that's
exactly
you have to take a loan unless he's
basically telling you you got to buy
houses cash
because that way you don't have interest
but it's very difficult to buy houses
cash and it's not intelligent
well you think like Muhammad a job and
like all the like is Muslim Twitter
gonna get mad at me if I like buy real
estate
the thing is like that's just not even
though I understand that there's a
reason for it like everything in America
is built on interest everything bill
because for obvious reasons but any
Western country is going to be dependent
upon interest if you have a mortgage
that's interest bro like what do you
would you live in a house you probably
have a mortgage on that house you're
paying interest so that's a ROM you have
your bet your money in a bank account
the bank is lending your money out on
interest
bruh this is the yo
there's no way to avoid usury in the
west there's no way what about
everything is based around interest
that's how that's how that's how lending
in general makes money so that you if
you want to borrow money credit cards
interest
yeah wait so is it well I'm about credit
cards
see that depends on how religious you
want to go so but I can go down to have
credit cards because I have multiple
I I guess maybe if you're like super
religious it can't they can interpret it
as that because credit cards charge you
interest if you don't pay in full chat
respectfully like if you're gonna go
criticize me for that
so I don't claim to be a great Muslim
because
how much stuff do I have to give up pork
fun alcohol
women
gambling
Muse about everything I can't even
invest my money yeah no no no no no no
no no no no no no no no no no no no no
no no no no you can invest but you can't
invest it into things that involve used
to be but any real investment typically
deals with interest unfortunately that's
just how it is they're saying credit
cards are off yeah
yeah okay I'm gonna ask shake with mom
about that but uh okay no Cloud Alex
okay is this better sneak on mine what's
a good advice to leave alcohol bro just
quit you have to quit bro like you
just have to go cold turkey and you got
to quit you just have to accept the fact
that like alcohol is not in your best
interest as a man and it's gonna set you
up for failure alcohol the only people
that can get away with being alcoholics
all day are women bro sorry great way
become a Muslim there you go if you
start drinking alcohol you're gonna go
to hell if you're a Christian you can
drink all day it's not beneficial man
alcohol's for losers anyway it is well
it's fun sometimes but it is fun no no
having fun I get it I get it it is fun
but it bro it's it's
waste of time though it really is a
waste of time
it's tough man it's been wallahi it's
been three months in a week now since I
had a sip of alcohol on every good in my
life on my I don't want to like you
probably feel better
it's so much more there's a lot to
unpackage here where do you want to
start
well it's a it's uh not surprising by
the way I have a son and I've been I'm
involved here in the local uh Islamic
college with the young people for the
last Almost decade been working there uh
counseling young people in terms of the
career development that's one of the
other things that I've been doing on the
side
uh in my community here and I came
across
most of these people so I'm familiar
with these uh snico andrute these kind
of individuals and a lot of yours
including my own son actually my my son
got me uh first time I heard about
Andrew Tate was on your podcast and we
were driving and he said do you want to
listen to this interview with this guy
so we listened to all of your podcasts
there so I'm familiar with this kind of
um and then it's not surprising this is
how most of the people uh would think
that uh you know if I can't do it this
way then it's impossible to get
something done I can't be wealthy I
can't be happy I can't enjoy my life if
you close the interest or gambling or
drinking alcohol how can I have fun so
this is and you know what is interesting
When You observe this again just coming
from the young people perspective when
they talk about metrics right and the
programming this is exactly it wow
that's been programmed good point that's
a solid point
and so him saying that you can't get
rich unless you take a loan how do
people make money how do people buy
property in fact opposite is true how
did Elon Musk become the richest person
in the world it's not true that it's
actually completely opposite way he
invented something people invested
through equity and this is even today
the fastest way that people make money
so you go you look at the major funds in
Silicon Valley Sequoia fund and all of
these other things what they do they
invest Equity they invest on the
partnership basis and they know some
businesses will fail some will be
moderate success but then they will be
among 10 20 businesses one or two
businesses that will do 10 times 100
times more
and so this is how we achieve today
progress It's it's people who risk the
money it's not true that startups are
not financed through that
so even today majority of the progress
majority of the wealth creation is done
through Equity financing and so riba or
interests come later on when you have a
big business that is already established
already has Equity buildings and they
can suck that wealth out of it then they
start giving it alone so usually this is
now at the more mature stage uh and so
so yeah so that's I I guess I would like
also to how do you see when you hear
those those kinds of uh thoughts as well
I like what you said this is uh speaking
the language of the vernacular now of
the youth coming up and this whole thing
with the Matrix I would say the satanic
forces whatever you want to go ahead and
Define it as but we understand this
programming I like what you said this is
very powerful because they also
themselves are talking about these
Matrix and this program is happening so
you just hit it on the head a light bulb
should go off for them this is just a
programming your that you can't have you
can have fun now without alcohol without
gambling without all these things that
are just it's built on a premise now of
things your life has been surrounded by
these things and these are just a few
things that are prohibited and now it
just crumbles apart because one by one
if you look at what these things entail
at the end result of alcohol alcoholism
and all the deaths and murders and
everything and I think about alcohol and
I think about the study that they had
before and now you have even
conservative and conservative Christians
who are giving up Candace Owens I don't
know if you've heard of her I quit
drinking cold turkey and I did not quit
drinking because I have a problem people
are tremendous Hypocrites as I mentioned
earlier that there's the conservatives
that say that we should definitely ban
and make sure that drugs remain illegal
but they partake in alcohol
some other podcasters they're coming out
these are women saying we don't want to
drink anymore the studies that they used
to have on alcohol that it was like one
one glass of wine a day these studies
they talk about were actually done by
the alcohol industry now there's new
studies that no amount of alcohol is
good for you subhanallah said no
moderate drinking isn't good for your
health despite a long-held belief that
moderate amounts of alcohol are good for
you a sweeping new analysis finds that
the more you drink the higher your risk
of early death is one of the largest
studies to debunk the widely held belief
that moderate drinking of wine or
alcoholic beverages is good for you last
year researchers in Britain examined
genetic and medical data of nearly 400
000 people and concluded that even low
alcohol intake was associated with
increased risk of disease the new study
which appears Friday in Jama Network
open also found that drinking relatively
low levels of alcohol 25 grams a day for
women less than one ounce and 45 grams
about one and a half ounces per day for
men actually increased the risk of death
and then go ahead what are you going to
say
absolutely and that's that's why you
even see
um you know I was watching again
somebody sent me the clip Andrew Tate
was talking about how you know he smokes
the cigarettes and this is a great it
keeps him alert and something else you
know we know tobacco again you know this
is uh this is a music to the ears when
they hear these kind of things and and
that's why in Quran we see that the
question is posed they ask you about
gambling and alcohol these kind of
things and you know there might be some
benefit for for this but the
overwhelming effect of these things is
is very negative and uh on the point
that they were mostly shocked was the
issue of interest but in reality if we
know our history or we know our present
we shouldn't be shocked I tell you one
interesting uh thing I recently had it
was a podcast it was not actually
podcast it was the episode recorded by
Patrick Bet David's pbd V2 uh crime
bosses it was series called United the
states
something about a crime in the United
States I forgot the exact title so here
is uh two for the first time under
bosses one of them is like a Michael
from Godfather type of figure another
one was semi-bull barbano or something
like that yeah
that's right so so so PPD asks him at
the end after you know entire uh podcast
talking about his dedication to Koza
Nostra eliminating people running all
kinds of Records uh manipulating Society
you know engaging in all kinds of things
during that time he asked him after you
now finished the jail and everything if
you are a young man
if you were now engaging in a business
what business would you be engaged in
and his response was I would do
shylocking
okay
Shiloh King now what does that mean the
is a character for Shakespeare
play called Merchant of Venice
and Merchant of Venice talks about uh
you know Shakespeare time Europe 16th
17th century when interest was
prohibited in Europe and so Christians
also Church would excommunicate people
for engaging in interest
but what the Christians used to do
they would bring Jews who they would
then deal in interest so for Jews it was
they made it between them it's not
allowed but to the Christians they would
do it and so this created very bad blood
between Jews and Christians of the
Europe so Shakespeare is describing this
moment in time when Jews and Christians
sort of have this interesting
relationship where they need money
Christians but they're hiding it from
church but then they also hate Jews
which is why some of the people talk
about Shakespeare being anti-semitic but
he was not talking about a religion
specifically but more about this guy
named in in this book who
basically gives the loan to the
Christian who needs to marry a beautiful
wealthy girl but he doesn't have a money
so now to marry her he signs up to the
contract where he will give a pound of
Flesh okay and this is where our
reference in the culture come when
somebody want to kill you basically or
extract from you makes you like an an
object did extract pound of Flesh so
it's come from that book and So
eventually I don't want to spoil people
the book he can't repay the money so he
they go to the judge and the who
is the money lender
he's demanding pound of Flesh
and so
it is very interesting that this
criminal who is on top of the criminal a
boss criminal boss out of all the
businesses that they could do
money-rounding tax evasion oils
everything they had done he picks this
particular industry that he would focus
on shark loans money lending and
shylocking so one has to think about why
what is it with this profession that
attracts these kinds of people why is it
that you know you have people in the
past historians they used to say there
are only two ways to conquer a country
one is through a sword another one is
through death and So for anybody who
wants to be awakened away from this
simulation metrics whatever they want
they don't want to be in PCS or however
they call themselves they want to be
people who critically autonomously think
for themselves they need to ask
themselves why did I buy into this when
everybody else with all of these
experience
they actually love these things it can't
be good for both if these people are
saying this will be a great way to make
money to conquer the countries and so on
and I'm swallowing that I mean a person
who is awake should ask what am I not
seeing here wow this is deep okay this
is really deep you're going into uh wow
this is at the time this was prohibited
in Europe it's actually prohibited in
the Bible
so you had the yahood who made it it was
prohibited but this is the changing of
the text that they made it now that they
can they can give to each other but um
they couldn't do it to each other but
they can do it to the Christians and
others charge them interested is that
what you're doing that's right wow this
is that's right so if you I was actually
just the other day reading talmud which
is like that
and I was going through there like what
we have in every books of Hadith we have
a book of business transactions so they
also have in the in the Bible of course
everybody is prohibited which is what we
call interest usually so I was just for
one presentation I have going through
the book of talmud and just to see
exactly you know like what is it that
they're saying
as I was reading the accounts of the
rabbis
it's 100 exactly what they are saving in
fact the word for riba they they use in
their languages
it's come from the same it's come from
the same root means increase so what
increase we're talking about increase
that is not uh legitimate and the way
that they ascribe the loans versus
Equity loans uh who is involved as if
you are reading Islamic text the
guarantor the witness it's allowed in
this case the example they put and they
say that this is a deadly sin
and I I put then this information in
chat GPT I said let me ask Chet GPT
based on this how come they allow to
themselves
so I had a chat with the gpts I said how
based on these do you figure out like
where you know these references like
where is it
so we had a discussion and said you know
you have to reinterpret this deadly sin
in the Torah in the you know like in the
Bible as such and such and I say okay
what is the evidence to say it's allowed
between them because it's a related to
deadly sin at the end Chad GPT said well
you know it's just interpretation
and so and so it's it's it's very
interesting when you when I then listen
to the rabbis who are I I listen some of
their talks about how they explain it's
amazing it's just like you're listening
Islamic scholars talking about this
issue so the law is exactly the same
then I went to ask uh you know like go
through the Christian sort of
relationship with riba and you you have
a example in the Bible where Jesus peace
be upon Him enters the temple and see
people engaging in interest transaction
in the church
in the temple and he throws them out
and he said to them you have made this
Temple the then of Thieves so he's he
threw the money changing tables and this
is at the time where a Christian
pilgrims used to visit holy land and
they would pay taxes to the church in
the silver shekels but because their
money was in Pagan symbols they would
exchange the silver coin for another
silver coin without these and then they
they would in this process charge them a
lot of a lot of money in return so he he
linked this to the Injustice to
something that is uh thieves would do so
it's just very interesting when when you
look at all of these references you know
you you can go as much as you want in
the history this was always seen as most
unnatural way of making money
and it goes back to what you're saying
so we've been programmed now to do it
the wrong way doesn't mean it's the
right way and we we should be honored
and we're blessed truly that we have a
way of life Islam that doesn't
compromise to these things doesn't
compromise to the alphabet movement it
doesn't compromise now to go ahead and
win people in that now you're at the
houses of worship the churches and
you've got the bands and it's like a
concert and whatnot and doing anything
you know to go ahead and bring people in
no these rules are there they're set
there's few but the fa there's far more
things that are allowed and the things
when someone looks into the alcohol
gambling destroying homes destroying
Society now at the small level and the
big level enslaving someone and you gave
a great example Sammy the bull for
people that don't know this is the right
hand Hitman to the New York Crime Boss
John Gotti and you're saying that in his
interview with Patrick and David that he
was talking about this is what he would
be into now this is this is it right
here so people can understand understand
if you go and it's evil like if you
would go and say I need ten thousand
You're vulnerable you're weak you need
some money and then then Sammy the Bull
gives you ten thousand and you gotta
usually you got it's like almost double
you got to give back right and if and if
you don't give that back now what
happens you end up breaking your legs
and your arm and then you can end up in
the grave right but in this in this case
we saw what was happening to people you
know they were maybe almost close to
paying off but they wanted their pound
of Flesh the bankers now the mafia guys
got into the suits now and now they're
the bankers and now what the what was
happening to the society what was
happening even in the collapse you know
when when all the the homes are being
foreclosed people are going they didn't
care about the the people and what was
happened with the family doesn't matter
what what it was getting thrown out in
the streets and the Islam prevents this
because it has True Justice uh what are
your thoughts on that
yes uh that's that's one of the most
deepest programming today because
everybody except that as it is and uh
it's not for no reason that the mafia
boss this is the very simple way to make
money you don't really need to do
anything it's very lazy uh mentality and
it affects everything that we are doing
in fact as a result of this borrowing
because what is the interest is
when you give somebody money on interest
money gives birth
so if I give one person a hundred
dollars five percent and then he gives
to another person at six percent and
then and on and on and on money keeps
giving the birth and so if you look at
current economy for example uh let's say
everything that we produce on planet
Earth is let's say 50 trillion dollars
now the amount of debt amount of
Interest
among this financial economy is maybe 20
times that
now think about all of that assets
Financial assets which are just the debt
money giving birth they need to return
some profit for their investors where is
that profit gonna come from when the
earth is just five percent even if we
give entire Earth
to them it's just for one year where is
the next so what that incentivizes
creation is even more artificial
products
and therefore when you run a normal
business now you are running against
people who make money in this synthetic
way
and you can't make a real products to
compete with synthetic product with a
fake products how do you get these type
of returns for example in Australia we
have one of the banks it's 25 million
people live in Australia in the worst of
time they say inflation was post covered
that is rising
when everybody is tightening their belt
they had this year one of the four Banks
had 10 billion dollar profit
from 25 million Australians it's it's a
record that that we are seeing and so
one has to ask themselves uh the way
this currently is happening around us
I'll give you one simple scenario how
currently if we just observe on the
higher level how we vote and How Deeply
we bought in this we have now measured
inflation that resulted of the covet and
the breakdown of Economy Supply land
what they called where things are more
difficult to make more expensive to make
and so this inflation is going in
America and us everywhere right
and so if you look at the average person
they are now having the home loan where
they're paying 20 25 of their salary
uh to the bank
so what we have collectively as a world
bought into is the way to manage this
inflation
to make things a little bit cheaper is
to increase interest rates so every
Central Bank in the world now is
increasing interest rates
now this comes at a time when you have
massive debt
as a result of us not working during the
coffee day one was borrowing governments
were borrowing and printing money so
it's like you give to your son credit
card he's not working and so he
increased the debt so then you go and
you ask him okay are you going to get a
job he says no I'm Gonna Keep increasing
that and
I'm gonna increase the interest rates on
that debt as well so in our wisdom we
now
are saying I bought the house like in
Australia last 12 months we had 12
increases of interest rates by Central
Bank
so the average teacher who is 100k
salary 25 goes to the bank in this one
year another 10 goes to the bank so
think of this what's happening you have
purchased the home through the bank
last year
and the sale is concluded but the bank
come and say you know what you should be
maybe giving me more money imagine if
you went to the supermarket and you
bought the milk for two dollars and one
year later they say you know that milk
you bought for two dollars we would like
another dollar that you give us this is
exactly what is happening with the bank
an entire system I was watching ahead of
uh one of the I think Nigeria there was
a lady I think she was a Muslim she was
the finance minister at the panel of IMF
and they were asking her how do you
fight inflation and current situation
problems in your country and basically
she said we're gonna refinance our debt
and then IMF said well that's that's
exactly how you should do it
everybody is voting so so if you are not
thinking like this the only one head of
state in Turkey president erdogan said
you know maybe we should do opposite
everybody attacked him he doesn't know
what he's doing he is not conventional
and the whole world started collapsing
around him so again it's it's it's it's
a very interesting how
from the criminals to these other
organizations they seem to Value this
way of doing business and running
economy in this way I remember back in
the day because also you know being in
doing some real estate and whatnot and
when I first started practicing Islam
and most people just go through the
motions and they're not really they just
see the bill okay I'm getting this loan
and when you get the payment let's say
your payment is like 3 000 a month
people understand like isn't that
robbing you you're paying actually what
is it the majority of going towards for
how many years just towards the interest
so if your payment is like 3 000 a month
you're paying like 26 2700 is just going
towards the interest almost the majority
and then that's for like that's for how
many years just that alone it's like
people really they're just you know
bought into this and they're not even
thinking you know so we're trying to
give people the not to talk about many
of the exploitation of the the urban
areas you gave the great example of you
know with a child you know a young man
or the urban areas where they put these
uh places out and they're giving this
money away and they Enslaved the people
so Allah don't want you to be a slave to
Croatia but a slave to the Creator
that's when you get true freedom I want
to show you this next clip because uh I
want people to see because now we're
seeing things from a the spec on the
painting Allah is trying to sees the
whole picture so we have to have trust
in our creator and something that hits
home is this next uh video here I'm
pretty sure you've probably seen it and
this really comes brings things to to
light how at a bigger scale not just uh
people get enslaved but whole
institution countries get enslaved let's
take a look at this and have uh you
react to it
this is what we were saying before we
economic Hitmen really have been the
ones responsible for creating this first
truly Global Empire and we work many
different ways
but perhaps the most common is that we
will identify a country that has
resources our corporations covet like
oil and then arrange a huge loan to that
country from the World Bank or one of
its sister organizations but the money
never actually goes to the country
instead it goes to our big corporations
to build infrastructure projects in that
Country power plants industrial parks
ports things that benefit a few rich
people in that country in addition to
our corporations but really don't have
the majority of the people at all
however those people the whole country
is left holding a huge debt such a big
debt they can't be dead and that's part
of the plan that they can't repay it and
so at some point we can only get men go
back to them and say listen you lost a
lot of money you can't pay your debt so
sell your oil real cheap to oil
companies allow us to build a military
base in your country or send troops and
supportive office to some place in the
world like Iraq or vote with us on the
next U.N vote to have their electric
utility company privatize and their
water and sewage systems privatized and
sold to U.S corporations or other
multinational corporations so there's a
whole mushrooming thing and it's so
typical of the way the IMF and the World
Bank worked they put a country in debt
it's such a big debt of Camp Fayette and
then you offer to refinance that debt
and and pay even more interest and you
demand this quid pro quo which you call
a conditionality or good governance
which means basically they've got to
sell off their resources and including
many of their social services their
utility companies their school systems
sometimes their their penal systems
their insurance systems to foreign
corporations so it's a it's a double
triple quadruple Whammy
this was a short clip from the economic
Hitman have you seen this
I read the book actually a couple of few
of his books yeah so does this hit home
to what we're talking about now if you
look at it a bigger scale countries
nations are being enslaved by this riba
by this interest
absolutely absolutely actually just the
last week I put a tweet that Uganda
voted a specific law against LGBT and
the first thing World Bank did was that
they s tweeted back that as a result of
this law they will not anymore issue the
finances for the country and IMF also
said they will reconsider our
involvement and so it's very interesting
that I was looking at the World Bank the
the mission seems to be fight poverty
you know but they are here using that
money mechanism uh to to to to to push
certain agenda and we are talking about
countries that for decades have been
receiving these loans
they have let's say look look at the
African countries
they have some of the largest natural
resources in the world potential for the
enormous wealth
and all of this money you would think by
now that their infrastructure their
exports would be making everybody's life
rich and isn't it interesting that this
guy who used to be what they call
economic Hitman where he described
exactly how they were robbing the
countries is using this example of that
as a weapon to make countries weaker and
make themselves richer so how is it that
these guys look at this as a weapon that
they use to
destroy countries make them weaker
and yet we somehow think that this is
the tool to make us richer like just
just doesn't make sense now this is not
to say that I don't want people to get
the wrong idea uh we we as Muslims we
want to own homes and businesses and
there are ways where you can Finance uh
through organization financial
institutions Islamic way if you don't
have finances to buy home and so on but
what we are talking about is is more
like a system of incentives that allow
for massive exploitation uh something
that focus our energy in the wrong
direction so we are talking about here
incentivizing certain behavior that open
door for exploitation
and this is what happens uh on smaller
level and also on on the on the larger
level
we'll get into some solutions that you
just mentioned let's get into another
clip of the part of the conversation
between our brothers uh Myron and sneako
oh that's how you avoid paying taxes
wait that's all legal yes I can like
avoid taxes yes and this is now now
going back to what I'm saying so let's
say you buy a house a hundred thousand
dollars cash right yeah you get that tax
benefit on that one house on a hundred
thousand dollars cash yeah but what
would make more sense if you took that
hundred thousand dollars cash that you
have and bought four houses and put 25k
down on each and now you're able to
write off 400 000 worth of taxes
but you only spent 100k
that is why buying houses cash is stupid
it's better by the house the haramway
the unfortunately yes with banks
okay because you're able to you're able
to leverage the banks to get better tax
breaks okay because you're buying four
houses for 400k worth 400k versus buying
one house for 100k
[Music]
um
and you're getting and you're getting
cash flow from those four houses now
people might say well if you buy the
house cash you don't have a mortgage you
get more cash flow because you don't
have to pay the mortgage that's true but
when it comes to tax benefits and their
appreciation that you're going to enjoy
from those four houses you actually make
more money
by Saving more money by buying the four
houses
sneakers like it's logical it seems like
it's making sense uh and some of these
things might make some sense but uh Dean
comes in people say religion is holding
me back now how am I gonna you know how
how would you uh respond to what the
argument that um our brother uh Myron is
making
look this is
um interesting point uh one one thing to
note here is that uh this issue of
interest is being embedded in the system
and you do get a tax exemption tax
breaks and and some benefits uh this is
uh this actually is a whole different
conversation this idea of prefering that
over Equity started long time ago
actually after the second world war when
a much of the world was destroyed and a
lot of countries they didn't want you
know one of one a few countries that
were still with the money and resources
to buy everything in every country and
so uh you know America could have went
to Europe or any other country and buy
everything so so they made Equity a bit
more harder versus a debt when you are
investing and so these kind of laws
taxation reflects this reality and and
so our our code does allow you that but
with these kind of
um I think this way of thinking it's a
very interesting way of thinking first
to notice the way that they think and
this is what riba mentality does to the
people everybody these days is talking
about some way of making passive income
making money by doing nothing so what
you will notice in all of these
Financial advices they read a book poor
that rich dead by Robert you know or
somebody else this is a cut and paste
from these kinds of books but most of
these advices revolve about you doing
nothing productive
okay you're not providing any benefit
you're not doing anything you're not
building the houses the only thing you
have to be engineered how to create new
technology how to create new medicine
how to improve somebody's life no you're
just thinking how can I make more money
without doing anything now if you can do
that Halal way that's not a problem but
yeah that that sort of mentality where
we are squeezing maximum profit and we
are not thinking about our starting
point is not how do I solve some problem
how do I benefit somebody and so this is
what brings us in all kinds of problems
now these things let's say if we're not
talking if we're just talking about from
economic side can this what he is
describing you buy four houses you're
making repayments can that work it could
work for somebody some situation and
this is how a lot of people make money
but it's very important I know people
for whom this didn't work because once
you lose the tenant in one house and you
can't repay what happens to that cash
flow you don't have a cash flow you
already stretched if you want to replace
it you need to wait so there is a lot of
things that can go wrong when people
start stretching themselves so more
often than not this also results in
wealth destruction I know a lot of
people a lot of businesses they stretch
themselves they're holding all of these
four or five different things but
somebody needs to pay these things if
something doesn't go there is also a
domino so it's very risky now again
going back to the you know uh how how uh
to create wealth uh the best way to
create wealth is by producing something
of value satisfying some demand that
makes sense and this could be a part of
mix if you have Halal Finance where you
buy house for investment but it's very
important to notice that sort of
attitude how we make money that risk
appetite that aggressiveness that can
often result in in the harm so it's it's
not a clear-cut issue it's not as simple
as uh as as they make it to be so a lot
of young people they they might listen
to this and they say oh this is so easy
just make that make a lot of these
purchases and this is what sometimes
create a lot of problem down the lane
this kind of risky loans and in
Australia for example we have a law
against these kinds of behavior where if
you cannot afford to buy homes you
cannot make repayment you don't have a
cash flow to support your repayments you
cannot take loans even in conventional
so it's important to be sort of balanced
and responsible and also make sure that
what you do is is not going into the
Haram for the sake of just making more
money in a risky way there is a
statement that uh brother Myra made he
said that's why buying houses cash is
stupid
and then uh snico replaces the haramway
to me I was thinking you know and then
somewhere in the conversation they
mentioned uh sneaker asked him is this
legal
and it's interesting people will look at
what's legal in the material world that
we live in but then
they take as a joke what's illegal with
Allah you know the creator of creation
they take this uh very
very softly you know they don't really
take the severe consequences of riba why
is Allah actually saying you're waging a
war can you talk about that this is a
war well this this also what is legal is
a result of Human Experience a human
when we regulate uh things in our
society we try to prevent disasters
you'll remember the global financial
crisis exactly was caused because the
loans were given to people who couldn't
afford them and so so this worked for a
time being but when these people
um
couldn't repay those loans the domino
effect started affecting everybody so
you are creating like a financial cancer
by doing things that that that starts
then risking uh entire organ to be
affected and poisoned by doing these
kinds of things so so you know even even
a matter of home it's it's another big
discussion but you know I advise people
you know especially for your own homes
you know pay off your home that's a very
important piece it's a lifestyle
decisions and uh and then you know you
you extend yourself how much uh so that
it doesn't cause you just to be
constantly voted because also this type
of a lifestyle create almost gambling
gambler's lifestyle they are always on
edge they're always looking in the
market what's happening because at any
moment these Domino around them they
stretch themselves they can start
falling so you see them they don't have
time for anything they are not sleeping
they are just constantly alert they're
constantly annoyed and so so so it's
it's not really it's it's it's almost
like a gamble you are gambling with so
many pieces it's a not a lifestyle for a
Muslim that's the that's really deep
constantly worrying always on the edge
it's like a house of cards that any time
things can collapse and then boom all
this you know that you've set up it's
you're living on the edge you just keep
stretching stretching things out and uh
it reminds me of the
upon him he said live debt free live a
free man you know this is a big
difference when you're debt free rather
than on the edge you you got all of this
money that you owe
Scholars used to say about that that
it's a humiliation in the day and worry
in the night and this is for Halal that
say it again a humiliation during that
they used to say that that Halal that
not with is humiliation during the day
and the worry in the night
and the process talked about that as a
prison something that imprisons you wow
so for sure this affects your mindset in
fact if you now look at the majority of
divorces problems and issues Allah
talking about interest is a Waging War
if you think about majority of the
problem is a result of financial
difficulties financial problems
and so a personally psychologically
number of people who are affected uh
just yesterday yes the money problems
are everywhere around us you know and
it's all fine and cozy when things are
going great but you know when things
start collapsing everybody starts
getting affected in fact just for your
information yesterday I I've been
talking in Bosnian page about one
pyramid scheme that recently collapsed
and I've been talking about it in Bosnia
in for a couple of months and and people
were contacting me now who were
investing
and the lady was just this morning
saying that I got my close friends and
people to invest with me now I lost
money now I'm my mental health is going
I'm anxious I have anxiety I can't show
my face to the people so when these
financial troubles hit
then you see the reality and that's why
people are on the edge because they
build around themselves all of these
structures that that keeps them on the
edge there is no Sakina there is no
peace there is no Tranquility they can't
focus on anything and the best way to
imprison somebody like that is exactly
through that State of Mind people are
not thinking this is very this is a
episode that uh you guys got to share
get out there because so many people
their marriage are being destroyed you
mentioned their lives are upside down
they're not connecting it to the war
being waged with their creator and now
they can't have peace within themselves
peace within their home there's no
barakas no Sakina what you said that
tranquility and stress kills stress
literally kills how many people they're
on the edge are stressed out and they
all that money they're making they
cannot buy as I say you can't buy a
six-pack a piece peace comes and
Tranquility contentment from obeying
your creator not disobeying your creator
what were you going to say Shea
uh you know I know I know people who are
every time you go out of the balance of
something that is normal you stretch you
push yourself whether it's you work too
much time you know uh or or you you take
on that that you can't handle and so on
what starts happening is you know your
child your son come to you you don't see
your son you see numbers that's in your
mind you can't relax you can't do
anything and so and so this is very very
uh uh very very big problem today uh
there's the Hadith I'm paraphrasing
talking about at the end of the day a
person will go through all these
troubles and they'll jump through all
these Haram loops and everything and
whatnot just to get the risk what's
written for them just it's already
written how much you're going to go
ahead and amass is this correct yeah and
then that's right you have the haramway
or the Halal way and at the end you lose
this life you die and now you're
standing in front of your maker your
creator
and you only got what's written for you
but at the end the other person
sacrificed and did it the Halal the
permission permissible one you got
Paradise this party ends in this life
but you guys Jenna you see the face of
your lord and forever ever you don't
have to go ahead and worry about
anything because you're in Bliss now in
Jannah why are you going to sacrifice
this temporary life that can end at any
time
and you lose what's Eternal forever in
Jannah that just doesn't make any sense
what were you saying
yes absolutely you know in in in reality
uh this comes down to the definition of
what is wealth because all of these
clips are talking about wealth
generation and things like that so the
wealth uh wealth that you uh you know
today capitalism perfected this uh
aspect of extracting our old time for
for that money and this this is
something a miracle of capitalism that
you uh spend all of your time all of
your thinking and this free time and
mind power for acquiring that wealth and
even if you cannot spend it I know
people who are extremely wealthy they
spend whole day looking at the screens
uh in this shop they don't want to see
anybody and often what what starts
happening with them I I I I say this
often to my students is uh when they get
to this stage where only think that they
are thinking number and focusing just on
that I was recently visiting a doctor
who retired recently with my wife and
and they my wife told me that you know
for the uh when she was speaking to his
his wife she said you know although they
have millions in Saving and you know
Porsche and several houses and the cars
they say in the morning they skip a
breakfast and only for the lunch they
have a little bit of bread with the
butter and I say how's that possible is
it diet is it what no no they are afraid
of the poverty see how can they be
afraid they have all of these millions
but then I remember
that you know if you live life just
focusing on that that's all you see
around yourself if you are just like you
know when you buy a new car uh and you
know when my daughter bought a Honda
Civic I never seen Honda Civic in my
life before in the street when she
bought it I I see it everywhere you know
and so if you live your life just
concerned about yourself then you think
everybody is like you and so you are
very tight because you think if I get in
trouble tomorrow there's nobody gonna
help me so I need to be there for myself
and so you are as afraid even if you
have everything on the other hand if you
live a more Balanced Life and you help
out people you live in the community and
then you think you know even if
something happens to me that is maybe
not good and I lose my money but you are
doing good in the community you know and
you see other good people so you start
automatically being relaxed because you
think there are other people who will
help me out so even though you're living
exactly the same you have completely
different out look because the way you
are engaging you are charitable you're
spending money
and and this is the essence essence here
is in your heart what you feel is enough
fulfilled because our grandfather in
Paradise he had everything but he still
had that anxiety now you can't have that
here in this world you will not have 99
of this planet wealth in your pocket but
our great father he he had everything
but shaytan comes to him and say do you
want to be like Angels self-sufficient
you know he want to sell him this
insurance you know a policy this this
this banking product you want this
credit card if you have this if you have
this loan if you have whatever is the is
the word he he's selling him he says you
will be Eternal like these angels and so
this is the human weakness so so our our
purpose really is to recognize don't
attach your happiness your success your
wealth to these kind of material things
uh do what you can to create material
wealth but don't sacrifice all of your
time you know but a living Balanced Life
try to have time to enjoy this what you
are getting
all not to be a slave to this system
that is designed around you the Matrix
that you've been programmed with like
you started in the beginning program you
need to think like this if you're
talking about this programming condition
yourself to program yourself the right
way the way your creator wants you
programmed so you can go ahead and get
to the real Paradise Jenna last clip
here and we'll wrap it up Morocco from
these guys they showed us around and
they were saying that Islamic banks will
make up for it by doing extremely large
fees so it's like okay they don't make
the money on the interest but they'll
just so they're going to charge you a
bunch of money to lend you the money yes
yes which is the same just a different
they're just they they make back the
money on fees you know okay that okay so
what that what it probably is then okay
so they give you a fixed fee yes up
front versus charging your interest okay
I guess that's one way around it but
you're probably if you do the math
you'll probably end up paying them more
maybe I don't I mean who knows like yeah
who knows how much time uh and another
20 from Odd Squad Salon Brothers
um I'm a 20 years here's the thing are
they going to give you a real estate
loan
it might give you a private loan what
are they going to give are they gonna
really give you 700 000 to go buy a home
definitely not uh this is the other
thing now you have this uh Islamic
Banking and many of the scholars when
they look at this a lot of them don't
qualify as Sharia compliant what are
your thoughts on what they're talking
about
this part the Islamic Islamic banking
supposedly
so this is uh not a new case so in Quran
when there is discussion Allah is saying
that people will be on the day of
judgment uh awakened they will be
brought like intoxicating like being
beaten into insanity
and the reason why they will be on the
day of judgment like this is because
they say trade is like interest so so
it's very interesting that this uh
argument persists that they say this is
like that and this is one of the words
that always interests me like how is
this simple idea why is it that people
always say that this is same like this
why is it if I give you ten dollars and
get 11 from you
why is that interest why is that not
allowed but if I'm selling if I sell you
this uh for ten dollars or eleven
dollars and I paid ten and I and I make
same amount of money on this why is that
permissible and so idea here is that we
start now developing the core principle
and everything starts with the principle
core principle or differentiation
between what is the function of money in
economy what is the difference uh for
the asset what's the purpose of
everything and so you start building
like a DNA cell of the economy it starts
from very simple
simple things but then on the top of
that how you build these things is with
the whole differences so for example if
you look uh as our Scholars used to say
Imam gazal used to say that money is a
judge of other things it's there to
basically as students of economy today I
would say is to uh to be something that
price the goods that is a medium of
exchange help us buy and sell and so on
so it's a judge of other Commodities
it's it's it's a very old definition but
it's very precise so it's judge other
commodity and it's he said that you can
then buy and sell judge
right you can it has to be objective it
has to be outside of that economy to
perform its job
and so what we have effectively done in
this economy is we have made money as
any other commodity that is bought and
sold
and so this by itself undermines the
purpose for which we have money so
that's why in Islam money you cannot buy
and sell it it's it's a not commodity
it's there to facilitate the real
economy so rather than money growing
exponentially and giving birth and so on
we must always engage in real economic
activity so uh to go back to what they
were saying about how Islamic Banks
would do these kinds of things is that
in order for them to extend financing
they need to buy the home so they would
Islamic Bank would have to buy property
and then either sell you or lease you or
enter into some kind of a partnership
with you
uh if uh and and the difference here is
that where conventional Bank gives you
money to get more money Islamic Bank
would have to engage in some kind of a
trade with the link between money and
money is cut so in a sense what we are
saying money must become some sort of an
asset
and then that is uh sold or leased for
the profit and so from that basic
principle which sounds maybe a trivial
we build entire entire system and you
know in many other aspects of life you
could uh think of very basic principle
and then then you can extrapolate to
entire system of economy how we run
things you know and and so on but the
logic of it is basically to say to us
all of these rules in in Islam are there
to say don't Focus your energy on doing
something that is artificial it's
synthetic doesn't benefit people focus
your energy on activities that are
directly impacting lives and benefiting
people and so this is a difference
between synthetic transactions
transactions that are designed just to
maximize The Profit there is no ethics
and this is why capitalism creates this
huge wealth inequality uh you know there
is no way this wealth will trickle down
you know that the capitalism uh lost
entire value system and it will end up
with the same effect that socialism and
communism will end up with which is the
concentration of wealth in very few
hands controlling that and squeezing
everybody with no value and so so only
when you have certain values attached
and right way to go about creating
wealth you know accumulating wealth
protecting wealth Distributing the
wealth in the right way and this is
where if you look at holistically
Islamic economic system
it tackles all of these areas put the
system and that's where you see the
balance that's when you see the miracle
of it once you once you take a step back
and say now I understand why these bits
and pieces just like in society you say
the small cell of family is then basis
of community then Community functions
like this and then you have you know the
society so in a similar way you know
it's it's what you built if you spoil
the beginning step and you say oh well
you know the marriage is nothing you
know it's men can do whatever he wants
and don't worry about then then that
will corrupt one stage of the marriage
and then the next of the community and
and who is who in that hierarchy so so
this is how we need to think about it
it's again
it's a longer piece to now paint
economic entire system but that's what
we have just discussing is the basis and
the first building block in the entire
uh framework of how we see economy
versus conventional way this is
obviously a little bit deeper topic and
of course you know somebody who's new to
Islam we don't start you know just
overloading them it's step by step we
understand these things and you know
developing that human being helping a
human being to one have a connection
with their creator on that pure
monotheism you know preparing themselves
you know getting not seeking knowledge
and growing and in their love for their
creator knowing who their creator is and
then they're gonna have a complete
balance in life then they're gonna put
their Creator first because they know
their creator they love their creator
they fear displeasing their crater and
then their decisions you know the way
they run through life is not going to be
just based on their desires and the
Matrix programming like you had talked
about so any last closing advice for
Myron uh we have love for these brothers
Myron I don't think he's uh practicing
um Muslim what advice do you have for
him he openly says it and then snico
also he's just a new Muslim about three
and a half months he's uh Happy like uh
he not happy he says like you know you
can't have fun he hasn't drunk alcohol
for three and a half months uh I can't
invest now right uh which she obviously
can the Halal way but what advice do you
have for these brothers
well a couple of things number one let
me start off by first saying that you
know there are ways to find that you
have Islamic Banks uh that offer
financial problems or you have a
financial institutions in most of the
countries in the world that people are
buying the homes and um and and you know
they they can help you with the
investment opportunities a lot of
investment funds here in Australia we
have several finance companies that help
people buy for the last 30 years uh
homes that invest money that screens uh
where to invest money and so on so there
isn't anything that is good that is
permissible that you cannot find some
alternative so it's Islam is not about
excluding you from participating in an
economy but you have to do it in an
ethical and the right way so when you're
Investing For example money in a certain
stocks you need to see you know is this
stock something that aligns with my
values like for example if I ask me
would you invest in Disney he would say
no way now what the programming they are
pushing out or so it's a similar way you
need to have a filter for do my values
around with align with what I'm
investing money in right I'm not just
going to invest in business because they
had a good quarter you know but I might
invest for example in whatever they're
now investing rumble or Twitter or
whatever you know like because they're
aligned these kind of ideas so that's
that's the number one uh number two
issue here is what I would say to them
is that what we notice from them is that
they are speaking their mind very
bravely very openly they are not afraid
to even get this get something wrong and
and I and I think this is this is a
great and very very refreshing so even
if they get something wrong even if they
say something I think Muslims should not
jump immediately there should be a
discussion understanding we are talking
here about individuals who are thinking
people who want to have evidence and the
reason Islam invites
uh skepticism and curiosity and
Challenge and let's focus on that aspect
you know now when somebody say but they
are wrong about this you know one day
the prophet salallahu was having a dream
and he came to Abu Bakr uh and he he
said you know I had this dream and Abu
Bakr said can I can I interpret it he
says okay give it a go so he said this
is this this and this so the prophet
sallam told him you got some and you
missed some okay now if Apple Becker
radialano
was not hundred percent in his opinions
and he would miss some and get some how
which one of us will have hundred
percent of everything we every human
will now miss something and get
something so I I encourage this the very
positive discussion I don't see it as a
weakness or uh something that should
people should jump it's it's a great
they are having great conversation
and I would I would encourage them you
know this this issue of financial
Financial economy and economy in general
is such a major issue it's such a major
issue is for somebody who wants to be at
that level of thinking where I think
they want to be at the top
top top G right top G of that
they need to understand what's going on
they need to be much more deeply uh
understanding these mechanics they need
to examine why they think what do you
think where do this principle come from
that they learned and so on so so I
would definitely encourage the
discussion it's it's a fun to see it and
I wish them all the best and I hope
Muslims are very supportive and
encouraging and um
I think uh your your your way of
engaging in this discussion is very
positive so that
that's that's I think great to see thank
you very much again for being with us
here and helping to go deeper into this
topic hopefully inshallah God will and
people can see things from a different
perspective
and help this helps get them out of the
programming
out of the Matrix
I'm sure all of you know Eddie from the
D show and I'm sure that we've all heard
about the dean center now you don't want
to miss on this opportunity the brother
has been around for a long time when I
became Muslim that was a show that I
used
that was one of the shows that I
actually was interviewed on and since
then I've kept in touch with Eddie and
we've cooperate and participated in many
things together alhamdulillah by the
blessing of Allah now you guys have to
do your part this is for the ummah
there's so many people in this world who
need The Message of Islam but the
question is not what you're gonna do
what are you going to do with your money
with what you have what are you going to
do to help the ummah to help someone
who's been around for 20 years doing
dawa you've enjoyed the shows you've
enjoyed the interviews you've enjoyed
now it's your turn support the teen
center
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