Islam a graduate of Christian semetary
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SE why am I talking about these two
books the one religious literacy the
other one Steven Carter's culture of
disbelief the reason I'm talking about
these two books is that that's the
context in which I grew up a situation
where most of us in the united of
America are religious
illiterates not only are we illiterate
about other people's religions so most
of us are religiously illiterate right
number one and number two they
encouraged to treat it as a
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hobby
alhamdulillah
after praising Allah or praising the
Creator and sending blessings upon his
Prophet his last prophet Muhammad peace
be upon him I'd like to first of all
thank the people of India for welcoming
me for this my first visit and making me
feel very very very comfortable in your
home I would also like to thank the
Islamic Research Foundation for its
invitation to involve me in what is one
of the world's
largest and spectacular efforts to
re-educate the Muslims on the one hand
and reintroduce Islam to the non-muslims
on the other hand may Allah reward them
all for their
efforts Steven
ptero in his book entitled religious
literacy and is one of several books I'm
a college professor as was pointed out
before by trade so uh if you're taking
notes you might want to take down the
books that I offer in my discussion
because in this short uh talk we won't
be able to get into depth into many
issues and these books both by Muslims
and non-muslims but mainly by
non-muslims because we're talking about
from Christianity to Islam mainly by
non-muslims will'll give you further
insight into the things that I'm saying
here this morning so Steven
poo uh in his book cultural religious
literacy makes the following statement
maybe more or maybe less he says when
you look at the United States of America
you find a situation in the United
States of America where the United
States of America is one of the most
religious countries on the first face of
the earth when measured by two indices
the United States of America is one of
the most religious countries on the face
of the earth when measured by two
indices one the number of people who go
to religious services and two the number
of people who over in over and over
again uh profess to believe in God the
number is more than 90% As Told by
gallab g a l l u
p in this
situation
Professor pero finds something that he
calls
shocking in this situation the situation
where the United States of America is
one of the most
religious countries on the face of the
Earth he finds a situation that he calls
shocking and this is in the area of the
primary title of his book religious
literacy listen to some of the data that
he uses for his assessment when you look
at teenagers in
America only 10% of them can name even
one of the five major religions in the
world only 10% of them can name one of
the five major religions in the world
15% of them at the other end can't name
any when you look in another area 2third
of the people in the United States of
America
believe that the Bible the book the
Christians call the Bible That's shared
by the Christians and the Jews the book
that they call the Bible is a book that
answers most or all of life's Basics
questions 2third of people in the United
States of America believes that the book
that they call the Bible answers all or
23s of the major questions of
life but on the other hand
only about
50% only about half of the people in
America over against 2third who believe
that the Bible has the answers to the
basic life questions only about half of
them can name even one even one of the
first four books of the New Testament
that's Matthew Mark Luke and John
Matthew Mark Luke and John when they ask
you know they believe most of them
believe over 66% believe that this book
the Bible can answer most of life's
questions but apparently they don't know
much about it because you asked them to
name the first four gospels which
contain the primary story from the
Christian uh standpoint of Jesus Christ
they can't name it this is a serious
shocking situation as far as concerned
and further he points out that when
asked to
name when asked to name the first book
in the Bible the Book of Genesis the
majority of people in the United States
of America cannot name
them why the reason for this
situation if we look at another author
Steven Carter another Steven who's on
the faculty of Yale law school one of my
almaas as fact I didn't finished the law
school but I went there two years in his
book his classic book another book
second book uh called the culture of
disbelief the culture of disbelief this
book was written in 1993 is a classic in
the area of understanding the religious
Dynamics in the United
States Professor Carter makes three
important points out of several number
one that people in the United States who
are religious are encouraged to treat
their religion as a hobby h o BB y that
people in the United States who are
religious are encouraged to treat their
religious as a hobby h o BB Y the second
thing is that there is an effort an
attempt to drive religion from the
public square that is to say that if you
say that you take a position on a
political issue of the day say healthc
care in the United States right now
which is a hot issue and you say that
the reason that I'm going to do this is
because I believe in God then from the
perspective of the average American
their eyes will roll back according to
Professor Carter and they will not like
the idea of you bringing religion into
What's called the Public
Square the third point that he makes
that's uh appropriate to what we're
discussing here is that we in the United
States of America have misunderstood the
First Amendment that is the first
amendment that keeps the state out of
the business of religion really says in
essence that the state shouldn't
establish religion it's called The
Establishment Clause was meant to
protect religion from the state not the
state from religion and that we've got
it all
backwards why am I talking about these
two books the one religious literacy the
other one Steven Carter's culture of
disbelief and the conversation about
from Christianity to Islam a graduate of
two Christian seminar speaks the reason
I'm talking about these two books is
that that's the context in which I grew
up a situation where most of us in the
united of America are religious
illiterates most of us are religious
illiterates not only are we illiterate
about other people's religions most of
us and that I would say from my
experience of teaching young people
coming into College it's true cuz I
teach in the world religions Department
it hasn't changed since Dr Carter or
Professor Carter wrote his book in 1993
and it hasn't changed since the 2007
book that's come out so most of us are
religiously illiterate right number one
and number two uh one of the reasons I
believe this way is because people are
encouraged not to put religion in the
center of their lives in the United
States of America they encouraged to
treat it as a hobby
so what I like to do in my topic from
Christianity to Islam a graduate of
Christian Seminary speaks is talk about
five shuns and by shuns I mean t o n
strange well way to spell shun but
listen to me five shuns
connections
Reflections
rejections
redirection Revolution five shuns
connections
Reflections
rejections redirections and
Revolution the first shun is connection
one of the reasons why the move from
Christianity to Islam was relatively
easy in some ways hard in some other
ways but easy in some ways is that
there's a connection between
Christianity in Islam in the earlier
talk in the same Hall I talked about the
fact that Christians and Muslims and
parenthetically the Jews are
biological
linguistic
geographical
ethical theological
cousins biology because in the Muslim
narrative we Trace our lineage both the
Christians and the Muslims and the Jews
Trace their lineage back to prophet
Abraham peace be upon him we say
linguistic because the founding
languages the founding languages from a
linguistic point of view of these
religions Hebrew for the Jews uh Jesus
Christ spoke Aramaic and some Hebrew and
Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be
upon Him spoke Arabic all of these
language belong to the semetic language
group they're cousins right so it's
biological linguistic geographical they
come from the same part of the world
what we call the Middle East
today Bethlehem Nazareth these are
places that we know to be in the Middle
East a Mecca Medina in the Middle East
Jerusalem these are all places that are
in the Middle East and in the middle of
conflict today so they're biological
linguistic
geographical ethical and we use the
example of the Ten Commandments that
Muslim Christians and Jews generally
agree except on the matter of the
Sabbath particularly for the Muslims
with the Ten Commandments you find in
Deuteronomy and exodus and they are
theological cousins because all three of
these ways of life profess to be
monotheistic all three of these ways of
life profess to be monotheistic they all
profess to believe in one God as we
shall see is expressed very differently
in Christianity than it is in Islam so
that's the connection between the two
their cousins they come from the same
part of the world similar languages
similar ethical systems and similar
theological
worldviews the second part is
Reflections in looking at this second
part I like to offer that my context
from which I came in Christianity was
the southern
black Baptist context the context from
which I came in Christianity was called
the southern black Baptist context that
is I was raised in the South even though
I was born in Baltimore Maryland I was
raised in r o Virginia I was raised in
the South and I went to church went to
Sunday school went to Bible study went
to choir rehearsal I went to all of
these things at High Street Baptist
Church in or Oak Virginia and so this is
a southern black Baptist context and one
thing you need to understand about the
black or African-American religious
experience in the United States of
America is that it's very expressive
very expressive that is if somebody's
given a sermon there's call and response
amen tell it preach talk that kind of
thing and it's often built around music
because of part of that expressiveness
my existential understanding of
myself my understanding of who I was as
a Christian that particular time was to
a large extent shaped by the music that
I heard and the lyrics that were
embedded in that
music my existential understanding of
myself that is my personal understanding
of what it meant to be a Christian when
I thought I was a Christian was to a
great extent determined by the music I
heard and the the words embedded in that
music as a side note to you parents out
there we are now very much in oral o r a
l and oral a a society in the United
States I don't know what's happening
here in India I don't know what's
happening in other countries but you
hardly walk the streets in the United
States without seeing young people
connected to iPods connected to music
connected to uh music that their
favorite music you they seems to me that
they're connected to this music 7 days a
week 24 hours a day hear me whatever
words they're listening to are very
important to their self- understanding
as they develop so you ought to pay
attention to this and so I'm going to
use the example of three pieces of music
from my experience as a Christian to
show how the shaped and formed who I was
and helped move me from Christianity to
Islam so next thing we're going to look
at is reflection and we'll use a
Christian hymn known the name of which
is Jesus loves me uh written by Warner
in 1860 and then uh music was uh added
to it in
1862 and it goes something like this I
hope no one will be offended by me
trying to sing it
Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible
tells me so little ones to him belong
they are weak and he is strong yes Jesus
loves me yes Jesus loves me yes Jesus
loves me for the Bible tells me so all
right at 6 years old I was taught to
sing this song over and over and over
again in the Angelic choir of high
Baptist Church what I learned from this
song from singing it and likeminded
songs over and over again was the notion
that there was a Biblical Authority
there was a Authority there was a
authority of the book before the Bible
tells me so what I learned from this is
that God As I understood it then Muslims
we would sayah we seek Refuge from this
but God as I understand it loved me this
was affirming me as myself Jesus loves
me this I know and the Bible told me so
and so this was very important this was
affirming who I was it taught me that
God loved me and it also the
underpinning of this was the notion that
that God that Creator was omnipotent in
all powerful and that made that
affirmation even more important to me at
that particular time upon reflection
this was a very very important part of
my existential understanding I would
argue that the foundation for my love
for Allah or my love for Creator was
laid then even though the belief system
was incorrect the foundation was laid at
that particular time and it was a
positive relationship with my Creator it
was a positive relationship with my then
the or my way of life my religion that
helped shake my existential
understanding of myself at a very very
young age so we've looked at connection
that's a reflection so when did the
rejection begin I offer a second hymn
it's called The Old Rugged Cross it was
pinned in 1912 I Believe by an
evangelist by the name of brener and by
the way when I was singing these songs I
always thought they were very very
ancient but you notice you know
1862
1912 and in the name of this hymn is The
Old Rugged Cross uh the lyrics go
something like this on a hill far
away stood an Old Rugged
Cross the emblem of suffering and shame
name and I love that o
cross were the dearest and the
best for a world of lost Sinners were
slain and I'll
cherish The Old Rugged
Cross till my trophies At Last I lay
down I will
cling to The Old Rugged
Cross and exchange it someday for a
crown now to the extent that Jesus Loves
Me was affirming and uplifting and
reinforcing The Old Rugged Cross was
just the opposite it was
depressing it was
disempowering and it was
discordant it was
depressing it was
disempowering and it was discordant why
do I say this it's
depressing understand even if you use
the Christian text as a source there is
no reason to argue that the cross should
be the symbol of
Christianity except that the church made
it
so on a hill far away stood an Old
Rugged
Cross the emblem of suffering in and
shame now people talk about Christianity
being about love but the cross is the
emblem of suffering and shame how much
more depressing can you get the emblem
of suffering and
shame for I love that o
cross were the dearest and best for a
world of lost Sinners were slain now why
is it this empowering to sing this this
thing over and over again for I love
that o cross were the dearest and the
best for a world of lost Sinners were
slain well this whole
idea of vicarious
atonement is an idea that disempowers
the
individual the reality is if you believe
as most Christians believe that Jesus
died for the sins of everybody in the
world the people before him and after
him where is your sense of agency where
is your sense of ownership of what you
do uh I went to a seminary I went to two
seminaries actually uh this case was
Yale Divinity School and uh we often as
many schools do in the United States
have spring break just before the Easter
weekend and and uh I was in a classroom
just before spring break and it was the
run up to what they call Good
Friday you know Old Rugged Cross symbol
of suffering and shame what's good if
you feel that God is crucified this is
probably where the idea that God is dead
in the 1950s and 60s came about because
people being reinforced with this kind
of ideology but anyway I was in a
classroom of the
Seminary uh the weekend before spring
break
where the Easter holiday was about to
start and remember seminaries in the
United States probably as they are in
India and other places in the world are
places for preparation of religious
leadership these are not your average
people these are people who are being
trained to be religious and clerical and
lay leaders in the Christian church and
uh it's not your average people because
it's at Yale University one of the top
universities in the world so I walk into
the classroom and one bright young
person male or female because men and
women go to Yale University Divinity
School had written on the board just
before this Easter SL spring break
weekend it's an interesting dichotomy
there anybody knows about spring break
in the United States they let it all
hang out they do things they wouldn't
normally do drink alcohol participate in
behavior that they wouldn't normally
participate in and it's often connected
to Easter which is one of the eids the
major holidays of Christianity but at
any rate this is the weekend before that
break and one enterprising young person
had written on the uh
board Jesus died for our sins vicarious
atonement vicarious in a sense that
someone else is doing something for
somebody else atonement we call it TBA
we call this returning back to Allah
repentance returning back to to
Vicarious atonement so the person wrote
on the board Jesus died for our
sins therefore we owe him a few good
ones think about that for a moment think
about the logic implicit in that that is
because Jesus died for all sins for all
time for everybody I'm not responsible
for my sins because Jesus died 2,000
years ago you you might call this
simplistic thinking but this is the
thinking of some of the top Minds who
are training to be clerics in the United
States of America this is the problem
with vicarious andt it is disempowering
it takes a sense of agency in
relationship to what I ought to do in
order to be a person of Faith away from
me and injects the idea of original sin
which we as Muslims don't believe in
that we all sinful and falling short of
the glory of God we don't believe in
this notion it's a disempowering no
notion and it leaves us with the idea
that somehow no matter what we do no
matter how we act the love of Jesus and
the blood of Jesus will bring us through
those of us who've heard Christian
sermons have heard this over and over
again that the love of Jesus and the
blood of Jesus will bring us through so
it's this
empowering this notion that of vicarious
atonement it's also
discordant d i s c o r d a n t
discordant why do I say this because it
clash with my idea of God being all
powerful it's discordant because it
clash with my idea of God being all
powerful all powerful how is it that a
God that profess to be all powerful in
the book called The Bible
would empty himself out become flesh
become crucified on the cross in order
to save Humanity the Muslims
say be and it is that's how powerful
this God is why would it be necessary
for this kind of drama that's what it
was this kind of blood sacrifice in
order to save people from sin when God
created everything and has power to do
anything but it seemed that somehow was
necessary for to make God into a man in
order to make him closer to us and so
this is discordant not to mention the
fact that we're
told that this happened on a weekend and
that Jesus was in the Tomb for three
days and that three days only extended
through two nights and two days Friday
was Good Friday and Sunday
confusion not to mention the fact that
the
Sabbath that Christians follow is Sunday
because of their belief that Jesus
Christ was resurrected on Sunday and I
want to tell you that many Christians
today believe that when the Bible says
remember the Sabbath day and keep it
holy six days shall thou labor and do
all our work but on the Sabbath day keep
it holy they think that the Bible means
Sunday not so confusion why because this
commandment is in the Old Testament this
commandment is in Deuteronomy and exodus
this is the Torah this is the book of
the Jews and when they say remember the
Sabbath day and keep it holy six days
shall I labor and do all thy Work and on
the Sabbath day keep it holy they mean
the Sabbath that the Jews observe today
the Sabbath that runs from Sundown on
Friday till Sundown on Saturday and
millions millions of Christians today in
the 21st century when you have access to
all kinds of information still believes
that when they recite that commandment
from the Old Testament that it means
Sunday
confusion vicarious atonement confusion
three days in the Tomb two nights two
days
confusion and so this began to lead to
my beginning to think about rejecting
the faith of my
family so we talked about connection we
talked about reflection we talked about
rejection so we want to talk a little
bit about redirection I want to offer
you another book A book by John gager
and it's called Kingdom and Community It
Was Written in 19 76 en gager talks
about his View using sociological tools
that what Christianity was as a social
grouping not as a theological group but
as a social grouping was a Revival was a
Revival of the faith of Judaism what
Christianity was as a social grouping
was a Revival of the faith of Judaism in
other words when you take a good look at
at Christianity and and this is a
reasonable argument to make since Jesus
was ethnically Jewish it really was an
attempt to reconnect the community at
that time with the original Covenant
between the Jews and God and there's a
this is a reasonable argument to make
simply because Jesus Christ was Jewish
his disciples were Jewish and the fact
of the matter is is that we Muslims
believe that Jesus Christ was in fact
sent only to the Jews and this kind of
position that is this idea sort of
reinforces it as emphasized by gager in
his book and so when we look at it we
can see the relationship between the two
between Christianity and Islam and at
this time remember I'm still in
Christianity and I want to offer a final
song that uh reinforce my both my uh
discordance and the rejection of some of
the basic ideas of Christianity it's a
song that was written in
1934 it's called Santa Claus is coming
to town you better watch
out you better not you better not cry
I'm telling you why Santa Claus is
coming to town he knows when you are
sleeping he knows when you are
awake he knows when you've been bad or
good so be good for goodness sake oh you
better watch out you better not cry you
better not pout I'm telling you
why Santa Claus is coming to town now
this seems like a harmless song this is
why I say you parents you should be
listening to what your youngsters are
listening to but let's deconstruct it
for a moment and look at the kind of
ideas were implanted in me as a young
person who thought I was Christian first
of all it fantasized in other words it
made the Christmas holiday which was
supposed to be about the birth of the
Christ child it put it in the realm of
fantasy people tend to know more about
Santa Claus than they know about Jesus
Christ remember what I said earlier
about people not even know what the
first four four books of the Bible are
likelihood is that they haven't read
them uh recently they probably read
Clement Moore's towards the Night Before
Christmas it was Clement Moore's poem
towards the night before Christmas that
popularized this idea of Jolly Old St
Nick so in 1934 we have a song that says
you better watch out you better not cry
you better not pout I'm telling you why
so it took it into the realm of fantasy
right it
fantasize and then it humanize against
another human being is just like this
whole idea of vicarious atonement it
humanized Jolly o St Nick even though
it's somebody who could uh uh his
fantasy life because he can go down
everybody's chimney all over the world
this is what I was taught all over the
world at the same time on the on
Christmas
Eve but what's more
important he knows when you are
sleeping he knows when you are
awake he
knows when you've been bad or
good so be good for goodness sake I want
you to think about this for a moment who
is the entity that's omniscient like
this knows when you're sleeping knows
when you're aake knows when you've been
bad or good this is the
creator in fact anzing and humanizing
this idea around Christmas they transfer
some attributes of the Creator to this
mythical Jolly Old elf He knows when
you're sleeping knows when you're awake
knows when you've been bad or good so be
good for goodness sake you don't be good
for the sake of your Christianity you
don't be good for the sake of Jesus
Christ you don't be good for the sake of
the church you you're good for the sake
of this
fantasy this human
fantasy because you want presence on
December 25th F the confusion about this
just like the confusion about Easter the
confusion about Jesus Christ being born
on December 25th the Christian Scholars
will tell you it's not so never mind
that it was a
compromise between Pagan ideas and the
church that December 25th and the idea
of the the saltist and P and gods never
mind about the confusion that comes
about out of this and no disrespect to
people maybe in the audience of
Christian but you can go and check these
things yourself these are things that I
was taught to a large extent after I was
grown up and went to Christian Seminary
so we have the Revival an attempt by
Islam to revive the faith how do we
notice the prominence of Jesus in the
Quran how do we notice Jesus's name
appears more often in the Quran than
Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be
upon Him Mary the mother of Jesus
appears her name appears more in the
Quran than the name of prophet Muhammad
peace and blessing be upon him and the
name of Jesus most of the time like 21
times it is in relationship to Jesus
because he's known as Jesus the son of
Mary in the Quran and so if we're Muslim
if we're Muslim we honor
we honor Jesus Christ why because we
believe in a virgin birth why because we
believe that he worked miracles by the
leave of God why because we believe he
was the Messiah or the sent one why
because we absolutely understand that
according to the Quran that he was the
word of God that's why we honor him
we're to make no
distinctions is back to connections
right right and so this is a Revival
this is a Revival of the faith of Jesus
Christ this is what Islam is because the
reality is is that much of what people
say about Jesus and what they believe
about Jesus they can't find any warrant
for it in their sacred text I often tell
my associates who are Christians that if
Jesus Christ came back on Christmas or
Easter and you invited Jesus Christ to
your
house in the United States of America we
have something called Heavenly Ham
that's a oxymoron if I ever heard one
Heavenly Ham this is ham that with sugar
on it right it's Heavenly Ham and it's a
special treat for many people in the
United States of America they will buy
at Easter only or they'll buy at
Christmas only and they'll have a big
meal and they'll celebrate what they
call the death and resurrection of Jesus
Christ by Caris atonement at Easter and
they will celebrate the birth of Jesus
Christ at Christmas Jesus an ethnic
Jew ethnically speaking came out of the
Jewish
Community didn't eat
pork unless he was out of step with the
the community and so I said if he came
back you even be able he wouldn't be
able to sit down at the table with you
so
Islam comes to
revive the
ways of the original ways of the
followers of Moses peace be upon them
and the follower of Jesus Christ because
these prophets among others are
mentioned in the Quran and how their
people are treated them is mentioned in
the Quran and if you take a close look
at the situation you'll find out that in
fact in fact that it is Islam Islam
that's closer to the way of Jesus Christ
peace be upon him than the ways that
have been pregated by the church and the
commercial interest that have taken it
over when you look at this Santa Claus
what we have is
fantasized
commercialize and humanize the Creator
turn God into a fantasy job or El we
commercialized that most of the money
that retail stores make in the United
States of America I don't know about in
other countries they make it in the
runup to the Christmas holiday and so
Christmas in many ways is more important
to the commercial interest in our
country than it is to the
church
fantasized
commercialized and humanized humanized
in the sense that a human being even
though it's a fantasy human being is
given attributes that only the Creator
should have attributes that only only
the Creator should have knows when you
sleeping he knows when you're awake he
knows when you're bad or good so be good
for goodness
sake so that's the fourth Point first
point is connections the second Point
Reflections the third point is
rejections the fourth point is
redirection order Revival and the fifth
point the fifth point is
Revolution the fifth point is Revolution
where we get into the details of how I
actually became Muslim the book I offer
you this time is a book by Muslim named
alhaj Malik as shabaz
known as Malcolm
X Malcolm X was a major figure in my
transformation from Christianity to
Islam how did it happen it happened in
terms of three different phases in my
life leading up to my taking shahada or
the Declaration of faith in
1979 the first phase was that I went to
to segregated schools in ronuk
Virginia segregated schools in ronuk
Virginia from
1952 to
1964 those of you who know anything
about United States of American History
know that the Civil Rights Movement was
going on this time uh many people date
the Civil Rights Movement around
1957 uh when uh Martin Luther King
started the Montgomery Bus Boycott uh
but the reality is is is that the Civil
Rights Movement was fermenting at this
time in the early 50s uh and
revolutions seem to be quick change but
usually there's been some preparation
for revolution before the Revolution
happens Revolution seem to be quick
change but usually there's a fertile
field that's been developed for
revolution the question is whether
you're going to grow beautiful flowers
or weeds that are worse than what was
before and so uh when we look at uh the
segregated school system that I attended
this was a situation that was very
depressing this was the jury segregation
this was segregation by law it was
illegal when I was a Youngster it was
illegal for so-called blacks and
so-called whites to go to school
together when I was a younger youngster
it was legal for illegal for so-called
blacks and so-called whites to marry
when I was a Youngster it was illegal
for so-called blacks and so-called
whites to ride on the bus in the same
part of the bus together this is the
South that I grew up in this is why it
was so important to have the black
church that affirmed me with songs like
Jesus loves me this I know because that
was the situation I was in that was the
only place I could get affirmation in an
Institutional sense because we were in
segregated schools everything was
segregated we lived in segregated
neighborhoods we were in segregated
schools we get secondhand books we
wouldn't get as much money as the
so-called white schools this was my
situation and this was the ground that I
was in and this was a situation that
while I was in it I didn't really
understand the nature of Oppression upon
me I wasn't born a revolutionary I just
thought that white people had always
been in charge and black people had
always cleaned their houses always
segregated from them always were made to
feel like second class citizens this was
my reality I went from that segregated
school system in 1964 I went to college
I went to a colored College c o l o r e
d because that's what we call ourselves
colored the National Association for the
advancement of colored people is a major
civil rights organization in the United
States of America we call ourselves
colored now we call ourselves black we
call ourselves africanamerican we call
our El people of color but back then we
call ourselves colored and it was there
it was there I began to reflect on the
things I'd gone through in the church
the things i' gone through in the street
and it came to a head when a speaker who
was very active in the Civil Rights
Movement came to Hampton University in
1967 his name was quami T he wasn't uh a
Muslim uh his name was actually stokeley
carmichel at that time he changed his
name to quami T and then moved to Africa
and he died in Africa actually but the
fact of the matter is he came to Hampton
University and talked to us about our
self understanding our self-hatred and
how that much of the education that we'
had up until that point had taught us to
look to other people for leadership and
understanding one of the things that we
need to do as people is to affirm
ourselves as human beings and not feel
less than this is part of the beauty of
Islam I wanted to say as an aside that
we can affirm who we are ethnically or
nationally and we don't have to give it
up in order to
say Muhammad but at that point when I
was going to Hampton University I didn't
know much about black history or
African-American history and what
stokeley carmichel did is challenged us
this day to begin reading I was already
already a bibl file I just wasn't
reading any books about black people
pretty much except books from the
so-called uh moderate civil rights
leaders and he one of the books that he
suggested that we read in
1967 was the order biography of Malcolm
X the autobiography of Malcolm X so I
took his
advice I read the aut biography Malcolm
X and this caused two MA major
Revolutions in my life one a revolution
in terms of my understanding of race
relations in the United States the story
of Malcolm X opened my eyes to the
depression that African-Americans or
black people or colored people or negro
people whatever you want to call them
have been subjected to since the time of
them being brought there as slaves in
the United States of America I had never
really understood this and his critique
of racism in America opened my eyes to
the evil of racism as something that I
as a human being simply because I was a
human being not because I was black
simply because I was a human being was
something I ought to do something about
so that was one revolution the second
revolution that I got from reading the
order biography of Malcolm X was a
revolution in religious thinking a
revolution and religious thinking those
of you who know the story of of Malcolm
X know that his younger days were spent
in the Midwest and he moved to Boston
got into trouble fell in with the wrong
crowd was a street Hustler went to jail
and in the jail discovered what is
called the Nation of
Islam he's discovered the Nation of
Islam came out joined the Nation of
Islam became a prominent minister in the
Nation of Islam became the national
spokesman for Elijah Muhammad one of the
founders of the Nation of Islam and then
you know what and this is making a
pretty long story short he found Islam
itself upon making Hajj twice he found
that the racial Paradigm that had been
part and parcel of the United States of
America the racial model or Paradigm
that had been a reaction formation by
the Nation of Islam didn't make any
sense on the world stage the ideas of
about race that white people were put
together by an evil scientist yako right
the idea that they uh were the devil
itself did not make any sense in the
world of Islam that he was introduced to
him when he travel
internationally and so this brought me
into a different phase of my life as
well and it made me being the bibl ofile
that I was and not a person who moves
too quickly began to read everything I
could about Islam every book I could
about Islam to find out any and
everything I could about this religion
called Islam because if this religion
could take Malcolm X from being someone
who was a color boy from the Midwest who
was a street Hustler from Boston to be a
minister for a religious worldview that
didn't fit in with the basic tenants of
Islam to become somebody
who had gone to the Muslim world and was
accepting the Muslim world this is
something that I wanted to know about so
I began reading I began reading I began
reading and I read all kinds of books
and over time I became to the
understanding that this Islam was the
religion for me I never joined the
Nation of Islam because I never accept
that it's racial
ideology I never joined the Nation of
Islam because I never accepted his
racial ideology because his racial
ideology given the critique that Malcolm
X made didn't make any sense indeed
after he made Hajj he wrote back to his
friends in the United States to the
extent that he said I will never ever
never ever talk about white people in
the way I used to this is because he
made Hajj I would never ever and there
are studies on this by the way I think
there's a study out of Harvard
University right now that did a study
there some people at Harvard University
did a study on Hajj and uh what they
found out that people who made Hajj were
much much much more tolerant than people
who didn't make Hajj that Muslims who
made Hajj were much much more tolerant
of other people and other religions than
people who didn't make Hajj and so what
we understand here is that through this
lifechanging experience Malcolm X saw
the bright light of Islam and through
reading his book and reading other books
and avoiding the racial ideology of the
Nation of Islam I found a religion that
gave me direction the direction of
serving my Lord the direction of trying
to get the gender gave me the discipline
that I lacked at that particular time
praying five times a day fasting during
the month of Ramadan right and gave me
an opportunity to develop myself in ways
that I didn't think were possible before
indeed it's the worldwide religion of
Islam that even brings me to Mumbai
because but for my relationship to a
worldwide Community I wouldn't be before
you speaking today I wouldn't have
spoken in Bahrain I wouldn't have spoken
in Doha I wouldn't have spoken in
Jerusalem it but for the worldwide
religion of Islam that opened my eyes to
the truth in relationship to God
Consciousness that opened my eyes until
the connection between all Humanity that
opened my eyes to the evils of racism I
wouldn't be standing before you today
gave me direction gave me discipline
gave me a way of developing
myself if you look at the Quran you'll
understand that what is about is a book
of
Justice Surah
4135 has a very high standard in
relationship ship to Justice it says
stand out the meaning of which stand out
for justice even if it's against
yourself even if it's against your
parents even if it's against your kid
even if it's against rich or poor this
is a very very high standard but this is
what Islam called me to and calls you to
a high standard of Justice you cannot be
the leader of the world that Allah ask
you to be in the Quran without this high
standard of Justice I Leave You with a
quote from Malcolm X since he had such a
great impact on my journey from
Christianity to Islam and I think it's
it's a good place to stop and take
questions that you might have about
anything I said he said before he
died I am for
truth no matter who speaks it I am for
justice no matter who it's for or
against I am a human being first and
foremost and as such
I'm for whomever or
whatever benefits Humanity as a whole
thank you for listening thank you for
your
[Music]
hospitality mashallah thank you very
much she Jimmy e Jones an abundance of
information there for anyone who wishes
to have friendly dialogue with our
Christian colleagues um you know so
inshallah I'm myself will also be
referring to some of the books that you
mentioned before thank you very
much we've come to that time where we
can um entertain some uh
questions uh we have uh three
microphones today um I'd like to remind
you please the questions should be on
the topic um of today's talk they should
be very brief short and
clear uh and also please state your name
and profession uh when you ask your
question so I'm going to start with the
sisters inah if you'd like to ask a
question asalamu alayum my name isma
Khan I'm student of tybsc question is
what is the idea behind confessions if
Christians believe that Jesus Christ
died for the sins of the people then why
confess for sins which are already
forgiven
J uh confessions uh question is what's
the idea behind confessions if Jesus
died for the sins of the people what's
the idea behind people coming to confess
the honest answer is I don't quite know
except that I know this is something
developed within the Catholic Church as
a matter of fact uh this is one of the
reasons that we have the split between
the Catholics and the Protestants
because uh Martin Luther uh who wrote
the famous 95 thesis uh was against
something called indulgences um you
could buy that if you send you could buy
indul aside from confessing you could
buy indulgences an excellent book by the
way to uh to if you want to read about
this whole issue uh is uh shik bow
Phillips a friend of mine Dr bow
Phillips salvation through repentance
salvation through repentance this is by
belal Phillips and it it talks about
this whole issue of confession and it
Compares TBA or repentance in
Christianity with repentance in Islam
and I think you'll find more specific
specific answer to your question okay
excellent also I just want to remind you
as well that you know we do um like to
have a preference for non-muslims who
might would like to ask some questions
so if there are any here today then
please come forward we'd love to speak
to you inshallah uh we'll take a
question from the brother of front here
alaykum I'm Muhammad
shafin brother please correct me if I'm
wrong the concept of God belief in
Christianity will lead to the uh crimes
and will not promote the peace between
the human being and also please
experience share your experience about
the Christian how they are thinking the
Christ died for sins Christ they also
believe Christ as a God and also at the
same time he died also how can this
world survive without the god
I think uh we we're limited to one
question that's right one question I'll
answer the first one I'll try to answer
the first one uh isn't it true I think
the sense of that first question is that
isn't it true that the Christian concept
of God tends to lead to Crime uh I would
answer this in this particular way that
our responsibility I'm not answering
directly our say in front our
responsibility as I understand it from
the Quran and I'm not a mufas I'm not
a scholar of Quran or Islam my area
really is comparative religions um but
my understanding is that our role is to
call people to Islam and uh to call them
in ways that are aen the ways that are
best and I I I my advice to all of us
and to myself first because I'm closer
my mouth is closer to my ears is that
when we approach the Christians that we
try not to accuse them you know we we
try to show them when I talk to them I
try to show them as best I can that
these things that you say about Jesus
Christ if you use your own sources these
things you say about Christmas if you
use your own sources these things you
say about Easter you if you use your own
sources are not true because I think
that approaching them and saying that
your belief in God is you know all the
problems of the world come from there is
sort of what they're doing to the
Muslims right now every time uh you know
we have something uh go on in the world
that has to do with t e r r o r they
want to blame it on Islam and so I think
uh a more uh wise approach to Christians
is to say uh come uh let's sit together
and I think the Quran says that and
let's let's say that we should worship
one God and let's look at how you
worship one God and how we worship one
God I think this is a better approach I
don't want to Haz it uh honestly a uh
you know an argument that uh your con
concept of God has led to the problems
in the world because the reality of it
all is that they you can start around
the finger pointing and so look what the
Muslims did here look what the
Christians did here but this is not the
point our Point like Prophet Muhammad
peace and blessings be upon Him is a
witness to all Humanity we Are Witnesses
we Are Witnesses for uh we no Prophet
Muhammad peace and blessing be upon Him
is a witness for the Muslims and we're
Witnesses for mankind and my
understanding for to that or humankind
my understanding of that is that we are
excellent role models and uh if you've
done any teaching uh there's a old
saying in the United States you can
catch more flies with honey than you can
with vinegar and so I wouldn't approach
the matter in that
way please be reminded all your
questions are valuable so if you can
keep them short and one question at a
time so we can get as many as possible
so back to the sisters again asalam
thank you Dr Jones for sharing the story
of your transition we've benefited
immensely the work which you do in the
US to help develop Muslim American
identity is commendable please advise
what practical steps we can take to
develop a Muslim Indian
identity very very important question uh
the work that we do in America trying to
develop Muslim American identity is very
important what can we do I I quite
frankly I'll be honest with you I think
in many ways you've done a lot more than
we have I mean this peace conference is
an example of the kind of thing that you
do because what you're doing is that
you're fulfilling a space that here to
for has only been filled by non-muslim
entities that is you're beginning to
fill the airway you're bring bringing
Muslims together uh one thing that
really uh shocked me when I came here is
that there are young men men who would
come to me young boys and ask my
autograph uh my first inclination
because I'm kind of shy and feel like I
don't want to call attention to myself
and that any good that comes comes from
my Lord but my second thought is is that
these young men are looking up to me you
know as someone important at their lives
they're Seven 8 9 10 11 years old and so
uh first of all these kinds of things
are absolutely important the second
thing is that we must support positive
POS families we must build our own
educational institutions these are two
critical things there is no way there's
no way no way that we're going to have a
strong Muslim American or Muslim Indian
identity unless we support families what
do I mean by support families support
shurer in families be against domestic
violence in family I don't know if you
have that problem here we have this
problem in the United States where men
won't take shur with people in their fam
they think because they're the head of
the household they should be able to
make all the decisions right down to the
smallest thing in the household when the
Quran has a chapter called shur has a
chapter called shur and that if you look
at the tap IB cath one of the attributes
of those people close to God are people
who make consultation and so of course
it goes without saying that the kinds of
physical and emotional abuse that we see
going on in American families I don't
know if you have it in Indian families
or not it's something that not the way
of prophet Muhammad peace and blessings
be upon him I challenge anybody to show
me in the S of pro Prophet Muhammad the
biography of prophet Muhammad the kind
of meanness that we see inflicted upon
women in particular but also children
within the family settings unless we
strengthen and develop this institution
we're not going to raise strong positive
Muslims the other thing we need is our
own educational institutions and I think
again India is far further ahead than we
are in the United States of America a
Catholic young child can go from
kindergarten to PhD in the Catholic
institution in the United States of
America that's not TR true with Islamic
educational institutions we're just
developing them but these are the things
you know that we're working on that
we're focusing on one the family and
we're focus on healthy marriages as well
and two developing strong educational
institutions that give people the kind
of quote secular education they need but
is deeply grounded in what I call the
contextualization of the prophetic
Paradigm inshallah I hope this has been
use useful thank you brother in the
front remember please a clear question
and very short as wellam
alayum my name is Muhammad nurudin I'm a
student from Malaysia I have a very
simple question what is in Islam that
attract you to choose to be a
Muslim uh the the
discipline the devotion Direction what
do I mean by discipline I I come from a
situation where I was I grew up in uh
not so much in in a city but I grew up
uh I lived for U much of my time in in a
city where I saw a lot of chaos around
me and so the the praying five times
today was attracted to me the notion
that of social justice was attracted to
me and the notion that it was clear that
the Quran has a clear message for me in
terms of the unity of Our Lord the unity
of mankind and what we need to do in
order to have a hope of getting into the
Jenner it was so clear I love the
intellectually it attracted me it
touched my heart and it structured my
life
alhamdulillah uh
brother alikum my name is m and I'm a
student so question to is one of my
friend Sean he's Christian he believes
in the returning of Jesus peace be upon
him but at the same time he believes in
the he died on the cross just for the
sake of us sins so how can I explain him
that this concept does not exist the
first thing uh in terms of giving daa to
people uh the first thing I urge upon
people is to be nice to to the
Christians first that's the first thing
I mean remember prophet peace and
blessings be upon him uh the angel jelam
used to impress on him to be kind to his
neighbor so much that he thought Prophet
Muhammad be upon Him thought that the
angel jabriel was going to ask to leave
him in his will so the the the best daah
as far as I'm concerned is our conduct
to be kind to be courteous toward them
and to be gentle and again Allah T says
in Quran that we should call them in BS
that are us ways that are best so you
know the personality as your friend uh
better than I do I I can't tell you
exactly how to approach this person but
you know you you know from being around
this associate and I would say what I
would do is look up some of the
information that I talked about and
gently say what why don't you read this
and because all the things I most of the
things I talked about except the
autobiography are by Christians you know
there are books called like who wrote
the Bible and there's a book called the
Passover plot it's called a Passover
plot I don't know the author of hand p a
SS o v e r the Passover plot where it's
argued that uh Jesus wasn't really
crucified that was fake just like the
Quran says there's lots of people out
there amongst the Christians who are
saying this whole idea of vicarious
atonement doesn't make any sense what I
would do if it's a reading person i' get
a person maybe one of those books and
let them read it and have a discussion
about it what it means and don't try to
rush the person inshallah remember it's
only Allah tal that changes people's
hearts it's not us and so we can't force
people we should call them be kind to
them and pray to Allah to Allah that
their hearts will change and that you'll
get the barcut from it
inshallah she Jimmy e Jones we have to
thank you very much for that wonderful
talk unfortunately we've run out of time
so we can't entertain any more um uh
questions for now um but you know mallah
just to remind you all just when you are
you know talking with your Christian
colleagues as a Sheik said you know
please be polite and you know inshallah
your the results will be very rewarding
so uh again thank you very much she and
uh we will close on this session now um
and uh obviously we have more in store
for you so please be patient with us and
enjoy the rest of it
so