this is the dean show
and we got the legend in the studio how
you doing
all right for the audience you know you
always hear me saying that he said peace
be with you how you been
i'm good how about you good good good
luck so uh a lot to talk about what i
wanted to talk about here is uh i wanted
to start off with you know
a little bit of the history you know for
you started actually training also jiu
jitsu right some yeah
now you know he's been he's been
actually training since he was seven
years old
he's kind of a hidden gem many people
you know he don't he don't really uh uh
his history is out there but we not in
hd format
it's high quality so tell us a little
bit about yourself how you're coming in
from brazil right yeah i was in brazil i
lived two months in brazil in trump
united states in louisville kentucky now
you spent some time in abu dhabi right
yes
[Music]
beginning 96. yeah so for all the people
who are out there you know who trained
in jiu-jitsu now when you say helios
many of the
people from old school
new school
they you know you competed a lot you
came up from even before when they have
many people know carlos gracie uh jr
he's you had the gracie baja you were
actually one of the ones founders of
that is that correct yes i am yeah
wow tell us about that
yeah i started
we have a small group was me
alfie gracie
roberto cohen
hence the grace jacques machado and his
brothers was all instructors
and also
joining mashad and
and
i forgot it so
the other machado name
anyway we that's the waste we started
the name the school was clubby grace
that time club gracie yes so this is
before it was coined gracie baja yes
club gracie
okay you mentioned some whole holes
gracie was was was he around at that
time
now host grace was in copacabana like um
uh karlsruhe
higa mashad used to be a host grace
students yeah and then when host grace
passed away they they become a college
graduate junior students
and we are a student from the mashadu's
brothers yeah any of these names ring a
bell
i'm still
very new to it new generation see that's
why this is important helio for the new
guys coming up they gotta know this
stuff yeah these are these are like some
of the uh the roots yeah a lot of the
jiu jitsu yeah coming from uh
from helio and soneka you see
some of the teachers that i learned from
he was their teacher like martial
freitas right yes you taught actually
marcio petosa yes yeah little bit ham
flavor made flavio made you peel this
kids because i used to teach for the
kids
so they were kids at that time yeah yeah
so how did you get in jiu jitsu
i started with seven years old i used to
fight a lot
a lot in school like guys all the guys
used to kick my butt yeah
then my my uncle brought me to the gym
to learn
and okay so let's go let's start from
that beginning okay so your uncle brings
you into where what was who was teaching
that at that was a schooling in
terrestris uh two hours from rio de
janeiro city is in the mountains
and i was a student from
elias martinez
janie hey building the city like was the
best kid school in the world at that
time they are learning from that then
with 14 years old i went to rio de
janeiro brazil to invent the club grace
so now who's there now it's club gracie
at that time yes this is in rio de
janeiro
who's the t who's there giving
instruction there
and
carlos machado and higa machado yes okay
and so they're teaching the classes at
club gracie yeah and my training process
was hands of grace grace
so they're also there now yeah okay are
they they're your same age you're older
ah
jack in the hands a little bit older
uh gordo
morales my age you probably have you
heard of the machados
okay i'll say some names just to bring
them up you've heard of probably eddie
bravo
yeah so that they and uh joe rogan
mm-hmm so they're under i think i
believe eddie bravo is that this jack
john jackman right so but john jock
wasn't there jacques was there was a
student like us oh he was a student like
us so because carlo uh hegan
and carlos they're the older brothers
yes okay so he's now if you can
imagine that wow this is like then he
left there carlos left to first after
higga
then jacques become our instructor or
main instructor so now he can higgin was
competing a lot right yeah that time yes
he was like amazing yeah
yeah i know he can we've had we've had
him here in chicago he's come we've
spent some time together so he was uh he
was very actually he starts with the
uh club grace today by her grace
competition team was his idea it was his
idea yeah nobody like to compete at that
time carl's grace is not like a
competition and he
changed the mind yeah
so then what happened okay so now you're
there carlos machado how many machados
has five brothers five brothers five
brothers right so now they um left he
where did he can go where did car come
to the united states oh they came to
united states so i think he can come in
first day after car is that when he went
to uh now he went to hollywood
yes
he's a hollywood super star vegan
if you're watching yes uh another day
another has passed
i remember higgin first time i met him
was in brazil and he came with mike
michael dudakov was it from the american
ninja
this actor
yes and he was he brought him to the
gracie camp we had the gracie camp there
in in brazil
and he came that's the first time i met
higan
yeah okay so going back now so you have
so they leave they both go to america
carlos carlos machado also yes so now
john jocks
now he's there
running the the
the gracie uh club club gracie okay and
then henzo and how henzo
uh health what they're they're also
teaching or or they're straining they're
training
okay so then uh what the hands are
changed a little bit too yeah how about
like uh hixson and um hoiler where were
they they were in uh is a
in umaitai is like a another town there
is another grease academy another
lioness we are the from carlos grace
lineage
hickson and hollyard from hilu grace
leonis
okay
so how long now
uh is john jox there teaching
um
couple years
a couple years before before he came to
united states when i when i was able to
give him my purple my brow
then he left are you guys around the
same eight you're he's older than you
yeah three years old two years older
okay but he he started training
before you
i don't think so more or less the same
time but he was much better than me yeah
um so so then what what happens from
there i remember when i when i went
there
at the academy when i used to train
there in brazil you had the gym you go
up into the building and you had a gym
on one floor then that then the academy
on the
top
yes when did you guys move into there
uh
and then they had the tasmanian devil
there yeah before it was at the house is
like in the same street
was a a a little bit for a little bit
like in the beginning the street was
there the gym was just a house
uh all the house they used to rent
them then the guy from the gym like it
was the name is pacifital invited us to
go there then went there with our
students
to this to the gym to the gym so what's
his is this still gracie uh club gracie
that is still clubby grace
no i believe you know it's becoming baja
grace when a friend of his name is juan
paolo
his nickname big head house was a when
the best fighter from the gym was the
best blue belt at that time
he came with a tasmania devil a t-shirt
from his wrestling team
then
we have idea he went to flake flake was
a
t-shirt comb a short company
uh like selfie board shorts no surfboard
shorts i don't know how to say and then
uh there you ask to the guy to push that
log in the triangle and you put your
club grace and the guy said could be
grace does not sound nice why don't you
put your
gracie baja
oh yes nice everybody starts to like you
know
there
their hands are grace to look you cannot
put your grace by because i have a grace
in my time from holly then you put your
baha
grace
then we made the that time like a
200
sweatshirt
200 t-shirt i don't remember the numbers
exact then you sold everything in one or
two weeks
then
there
then the the brand starch everybody like
everybody like that symbol and and
sometimes people say oh look you cannot
put in the taj mahal david because this
is the word gonna sue you
anyway then what you did and become very
popular then that's become the name
grace baja grace and today gracie baja
so it was flipped so it was baja gracie
today is gracie baja
or yes
it was baja grace then becoming gracie
baja it was
baja
yes the the town in brazil in rio a
little town in rio yeah you ever been to
uh brazil
never i had the chance i didn't go yeah
it was funny because
used to be a
a couple boys trophy boys a little bit
craze
and you used to fight a lot in the in
the street
and everybody from the neighborhood
instead fight against us they joined the
gym to
to don't get the butt kick then they'll
understand just becoming a champion
that building that i would go train at
did you guys now once you got the
tasmanian dove the shirts you know with
the triangle the tasmania did you guys
move over there yes now you're in this
facility you were there for a long time
right a long time yeah henzel's still
there and yes uh how health all of them
were still still training there no still
no nobody's there anymore no no more
we're talking about before death time
yes at that time yeah probably everybody
left from grace baja or baja gracie
i left 20 years 15
16 18 years ago probably a guy's left 15
years ago i don't know exact but so how
did it go from there how big was the was
the team
uh how many people were at that time
when you changed the name over was it a
big group training there was a lot of
guys well it's not very big like is now
but was a
the best quality group yeah
like just dwarf and the technical guys
name what's some of the guys that we see
this picture often you know the picture
where the
i don't remember everybody's name masu
cruz
was a dream jim
so then for for the generation that i
knew that now started to to who i met
there
in brazil
was uh professor martial fatoza
so then what how did he himself pick you
when did they start
coming in to the picture
around what
um
masu pew pew they they grow up they
become very good very technical
like a good blue bells good pop a good
brown good black
i think they
they start to show up in
in the beginners nights
so then this is how f how many years
after you you guys made the name
baja gracie how many years later until
they start training
do you remember um
maybe
the probably they joined one was club
grace then three years after
three years after they enjoyed one was
already back race i don't know i don't
know exactly was that henzo and health
were they fighting
at that time yes they start fighting
yeah mma they started fighting mma
valitude that time valitudo yeah were in
brazil or did they come over brazil in
the united states yeah
did they have a strong strong valitudo
team that at that time or would you just
just just jujitsu and we trained little
mma a little valid in the gym like the
reason
grace
they
and also the mashadu's brothers
they are the the reason everybody went
to train with in the gracie baja
in the club the grace that time you know
yeah so then when did they end up
when did john jox end up
leaving did he end up he was there when
it's gracie baja or baja gracie so when
did he go off to open up his own school
when he moved to united states so he
left also yeah how much after that did
you leave to go to the united states oh
i
just left the united states
uh
18 years ago 18 years ago 2002 19 years
ago so then who took over
my gym
there in gracie baja gracie
i never uh
i was already with my gym when i left i
was not the chief inside of the gym
so are you have you heard of this name
gracie baja
yeah so this is where
uh where he started and actually he made
the
some great history here because
he was many people here
you know carlos gracie jr and you know
the gracie family but some of the people
who are behind
much of the history you don't get to
hear much about so i was a lot of this
stuff was uh new to me so it's very
interesting
yeah hearing this
yeah i have a question
you said at one point i think you were
referring to uh helios gracie he he
didn't want to do the competition
college grace
how's great junior he never liked a
competition
then
after he started like a competition so
why didn't he like the competition
because the traffic guys don't pay the
abuse
yeah
so then uh how long from from there i
mean how do you when you go so it's
officially that main school where i was
where i was going where you where they
had this
uh team it's no more huh
it's no more no more
no more i think they move
they move and they move the that school
is still in brazil somewhere but they
move they move it's not the beauty i
don't know oh just another building but
it's still great it's still there
yeah
yeah they have a lot of association
everywhere yeah
so uh yeah it's a strong team you know
yeah so with me when i went there for
the first time then i i hooked up with
carlos gracie jr with um
with um marcio faytosa i was going to
the gracie camp that's why i said uh
hegan was there the one time i met uh
henzo was there nelson montero all the
you know
it would be amazing because you'd go up
there and train and i would never forget
because it was
you know hot outside but then you go up
upstairs they had the fans
and the ghee
you'd be soaked you know the ghee would
be all wet it's like you're carrying an
extra now 50 60 pounds just of all the
sweat and you know then you see
the first time i was there i was uh i
went as a blue belt
and just to be with all the different uh
black belts world champions it was
amazing it was amazing experience yeah
yeah
so uh there was some some some great uh
memories i remember yeah and then from
there i actually i became the first
american rep
for
for the gracie baja
you know here in the in america because
they didn't have a rep
at that time and that's when they
started to expand
you know and go
get bigger and bigger
and uh yeah so that was very very very
interesting very um
interesting times who were some of the
most uh
uh influential people in your life from
hazel grace henzo gracie yeah
he's my idol
enzo it's my guard angel yeah
yeah well you you beat him to it
actually because you beat him on the
show before he was we had a date set up
everything he was here he's been here to
uh uh our academy he's visited
uh and uh we had a show set up he just
got busy but
you came on before him so hopefully yeah
next yeah
his
health also he's
very very nice
people um
people you know get the sometimes
you see health you know
very uh aggressive and always fight but
he's
a big heart right wonderful person yeah
very nice and humble yeah when you get
to know him and meet him yeah
you also you got how about their the
brother who passed away were you close
with him oh yeah he is my
he's mine my passion my love
we saw we used to fight a lot against
each other but i love him yeah
she's still alive for me
we also henzo was the biggest
inspiration for you huh yes yeah
did they did they have i try to act like
a handsome grace yeah
but i cannot i don't have this
semi-charisma yeah have you heard of
this name henzo hanzo yeah
so these are some of the um
then you have uh hixson
did you
just thinking about it you're thinking
about go ahead oh go ahead yeah
uh
did you get a chance to meet hixson oh
yes bunch times very nice guy very
polite yeah
amazing fighter
now it was interesting to learn that you
yourself i mean you were fighting in
what weight division 129
125 129 i don't remember exactly and you
were one of the only guys that actually
fought at your weight division that's a
big jump i mean you know absolute
and then you won from blue belt purple
all the way to black belt tell us about
some black i took a second place but on
one
yeah i did some i like fight against big
boys i used to like yeah
ah i like i always i i like challenging
myself yeah
then i went to death to fight the open
class there's no compromise if i win
i'm a hero if i lose i'm a just a small
guy yeah
who um who from from when you were used
to uh compete at that time was it um
were you competing like weekly or
monthly or regularly you were
depends
i was not like probably like
yeah that's what i wanted to know
because here now you got like every
weekend every every weekend how was it
back then with the tournament was like
each two months maybe three months
depends and the two stronger tournaments
here
that's it yeah yeah
so who who was the you were probably one
would you say one of the most active
like what hegan was very active with the
competitions that time yes it was who
else who are some of the most active in
what's here
jacques was hands everybody from the gym
all my training partners we used to
fight a lot
but at the time carson gracie jim was
the strongest gym
in the world you know
carlson gracie yeah got something senior
yes yeah castle great that is cursing
yeah
so great academy they had the strongest
team yeah how many teams were were there
you had a bunch teams like over
over a hundred gyms 200 but how what was
the source always went back to because
you have the two lines you have uh
carlos gracie senior helio gracie so all
these other schools
however there
have their father lionish too
was the guys from the brazilian suburbs
stronger guys so good with ankle locks
yeah very flexible guys today's the novo
neo
tell us about who are they the novion
novoneo and the gf chimp they added from
their father lionish who the who's
lineage
father father master father who's
another guy learning
besides the grace family oh yeah yeah
who did he learn from he learned from
from
the same guy
i don't know the history very well but i
believe the same japanese guy teaching
for healing see i never you you don't
hear me yeah i never heard this
so you had another also was teaching jiu
jitsu yes okay yeah
but he teaches for subwoofers suburbs
like okay yeah
listen i got a question for you what do
you think today about the uh
the combat jiu jitsu
where you could like strike the face and
everything
i think it's nice always was like this
yeah yes always like this
but uh it's different like uh
it's uh
if you're gonna fight a punch in the
face or kick you don't need to have
rules you need to fight like a fight in
the street
kind of like mma right
mma is just a game you cannot kick the
guy faces he puts the hand in the floor
that's that's become a sport too so
you're referring to vale tudo yes i'm
from
yeah
how we call in brazil
this is the nutella
nutella the chocolate there
were you uh were you around when um i've
heard hixon talk about you know many of
the stories are at that time you know
you see the
the fights on the pepe beach you know
when he smacked the one guy and
yeah were you there yes you were there
yes tell us what happened so you're a
first-hand account you were at the beach
when this happened it was amazing tell
us tell us what happened oh man it was a
fight everywhere
what's funny yeah who was this guy
this guy was from
luther a very tough guy
very honorable
honorable man yeah
and uh
he used to be our enemy like uh
is ah
style start to be strong in brazil then
they thought they were the best it was
like a sushi but nogi
then
there starts the the the problems like a
two bigger gyms touch fight against each
other
and what was the uh what for the people
that don't know about this situation
um what was the end result what happened
the bjj1
he was much bigger than hixon right yes
but this was not a competition for hiksu
no then nixon took him down yeah he's
yeah and then uh
he mounted him yeah but the other guy
was with him eugenie today was a very
tough guy
which one the the black guy uh eugenio
tadio he fought to he fought against the
hands he fought against holly he fought
against the first jews against
the first issue uh the first validity he
fought and he won he beat the jiu jitsu
guy he beat the hernan pitt and he was a
tough guy
is that he was like a shorter stocky guy
yeah
amazing is that where they had the
in the stadium and then the fight
everything uh exploded
no that one was hands against him
that's when henzo fought him yeah but
the hands was controlled him all the
time but in the end the hands got a
little bit tired but was well
the ring supposed to fall
was bad the what the ring was not very
something we had uh have with the ring
supposed to fall but there was there
could he kill people were you there at
this fight yes yeah i was everywhere
was it
i was
there then when all problems happened
that there was at that one it was like
right was there a riot
riot like
the outside of the ring it's spilt over
to outside and people start fighting yes
yeah
and then what happened i mean
i punished some people people saw me
people punish me kick me
then they come to the police and finish
uh for the for the ancient old question
ghee versus nogi you see a lot of when
people come to you and ask you like a
lot of times uh
people maybe they don't want to train
with the ghee they have this this touch
with your gear
take a minimum two years two or three
years with the gear to after you take
the gear off and
then start training the nogi mm-hmm and
if someone go you're gonna ask then you
were saying that uh you like muay thai
as well
yeah i like muay thai i like muay thai
like a box i like how kind of matcha was
i think we need to learn it basically
from everything
but
it's my mentor
yeah
it's my
i got you now the question that i have
is um
what if you have someone who was over
here like a striker and you know they
love
muay thai and and they'll say that muay
thai is uh the best martial art it's
okay his choice
i like it i like the the gray koala i
don't mind if you like the black yeah
it's everybody you know it's the most
important respect
your wish and you respect my wish yeah
that's
that is true
now you did say that you started when
you were seven years old so and it was
just kind of like what was available at
the time for you
so
now
that you've been training it for over 40
plus years
you say that present jujitsu is like
your favorite it's the best like people
should definitely go there like if
someone were to ask you you you're
definitely like in on the side of
brazilian jiu jitsu so like what would
you
what would you tell someone
if they wanted to hear why brazilian jiu
jitsu is better than
the other martial because you prove to
the world we kick everybody's part in
the world
to prove jujitsu was the best martial
art in the world i don't know if you
remember how i see grace
he spank everybody and he shows you
she's the best martial art in the world
if you don't do jujitsu you are dead
it's like
you are a tiger is you are a lion inside
the shark tank you cannot survive
so you were there at that time
and now now my question is a lot of
people say that that was fake that it
was like
some kind of like thing that they
they ran so that they could
get people to come and train the martial
art since you were there like what do
you think
they they thought it was fake because
nobody saw a guy with 335
pounds control guys with 300 pounds so
easy and make the guys
tap you know give you up you know that's
look if used to look fake but everybody
who is knows you
who is
trying jiu jitsu this mean like example
today you have a lot of muay thai guys
like professional muay thai like the
best in the world
like at this
at this
center like the new zealand guy the the
ufc world champion
he's a proper belt in shushid because he
know if he does not know
jujitsu he cannot survive
he but he's
his men memphis he's
he's he's a muay thai guy
you know what i mean but he knew he
needed sushi
i i don't need another much a lot to
fight but the muay thai boxing
wrestling
uh karate they needed
i don't eat
yeah yeah just just going off that it's
uh you know
there would be always those ancient old
debates like if you put uh karate up
against kung fu or boxing up against
this art and it was a lot of theories
but then what the what they did the
gracie this was a beautiful thing is
now they said come let's try you know so
they had the challenge matches
and then it all the way led up to the to
the ufc so then it would let up to there
and you used to see all the different
styles you know put in there and
the thing was everyone was trained
standing up
but then
it just natural that you're gonna clinch
you can just like two boxers you get two
boxers how many times the referee has to
split them up because they always just
naturally grabbing each other yeah and
that's where you know like i school
fights always go to the ground always
goes to the ground yeah
and that's when like uh then you're in
in the water yeah again not a swim
yeah so i always say it's the one stop
shop you know if you want to learn the
most effective
uh most
proven most effective martial art
then i say this is the gracie brazilian
jiu jitsu
yeah
yeah i agree yeah i didn't believe in
was in jujitsu
before i got into it but then
when i first did it i got humbled
i got
we prove you know the brazilian jiu
jitsu
we brazilians
we kick
the world but
we spank everybody
to prove it was the best match of what
if it was if it was not us the brazilian
americans still believe bruce lee was
true wait so so bruce lee what do you
know about bruce lee
everybody thought kung fu as the
demanding
and it's not okay i'll see what you mean
yeah like his whole like condo
but uh bruce lee um
just in closing before we conclude
in some of his in some of his literature
you can see him he was
thinking already on the ground you know
what i mean he was evolving what i did
he was a smart guy i know yeah so he
knew that you know that's the reason
he's the legend yeah thank you very much
sharing
this history with us
that uh much of the world hopefully now
we got it in hd you know
so uh some people who are from the
um the gordos the helps to enzos and
their students and others they can kind
of start and the machados
students people can look to this you
know and they can see some of that the
roots you know their teachers and
um some of the history that so it's not
forgotten okay thank you thank you for
sharing that with us thank you guys
and thank you guys we'll see you next
time peace be with you assalamu