this is
the welcome to the dean show I'm with Dr
Lawrence Brown let's get right into it
Dr Lawrence Brown I'm I'm not even going
to ask you how you're doing this is this
is a very crucial question we don't want
to waste any time but how you doing
anyways what
whatam um tell me how do atheist
explain our existence
good question well I mean the bottom
line is that um atheists explain the
existence of the universe through the
big bang and the diversity of species
through evolution by the process of
natural
selection
um what I find
interesting is to take these
explanations back to their
Origins and in that regard what you know
what I think I would like to uh just
talk about today is exactly that uh so
for
example um I'm 57 years old 40 years old
when I was in college they were teaching
the Big Bang but um the theory was very
different from what it is now they they
were teaching back then they were
teaching teaching a primordial dustcloud
are you familiar with this no okay well
the concept was obviously we have so
much nowadays uh I mean so much matter
and energy in the universe where did all
of this come from and the belief at the
belief Back 40 years ago was that
everything compacted into a you know
hyperdense core and exploded and
exploded out into the universe that we
have today but the question was where
did all all of that matter and energy
come from so 40 years ago they believed
in a primordial dust cloud a dust cloud
of of matter and energy that
came together into a hyperdense core and
then exploded outwards like I just
described uh the question of how it came
together why what were the forces that
caused the explanation these are were
the UN unanswered questions okay
uh let me try that again uh these were
the unanswered questions uh so then the
the theory kind of evolved to the point
where they suggested you know scientists
began to suggest well you know with any
explosion uh things decelerate they uh
you know initially they're expanding
outwards and it slows down so it just
makes sense that as the universe is
expanding uh things are getting farther
and farther away from one another and
they will decelerate they will slow down
in the expansion the forces of gravity
will be pulling against the expansion at
some point the forces of gravity will
overcome the forces of the expansion and
the expansion will slow slow slow stop
and then the forces of gravity will
overcome the forces of forces of
expansion bring everything back together
and that was the Big Crunch basically
the universe collapsing in upon itself
under the forces of gravity forming
another hyperdense Singularity which
would then explode outwards again so you
would get this sort of endless
series of um Big Bangs big crunches big
bang big crunch okay um the problem was
that uh when they when they measured the
expansion of the universe they found
that instead of slowing down the
expansion of the universe was in fact
speeding up kind of surprising huh yes
not what you'd expect I mean have you
ever seen an
explosion that sped up you set off a
firecracker and things you know do not
fall to the ground they just go off
forever so in any case this was the
point so uh they found that the
expansion was in fact speeding up and
could not explain this um so now we have
a concept of the Multiverse they said
well then there must be multiple
universes other universes out there that
are pulling upon our universe causing
the you know expansion and so on and
again another theory that has absolutely
not a shred of evidence
uh but this is this is how the
scientists are explaining it now the
point is that the the theory of the Big
Bang has come to the point where the the
most accepted model in this
day uh just says okay there was no
primordial dis Cloud dust cloud um the
um using physical principles the most
eminent uh physicists nuclear physicists
and so on uh BAS basically extrapolated
backwards and developed what is now
known as the Penrose Hawking model of
the Big Bang which or of the singularity
which is uh is basically that before the
singularity before the singularity
formed get this there was no matter
there was no energy there was no space
there was no time
nothing now I mean no matter no energy
wow that's amazing but no space space No
Time absolutely
nothing in this model scientists have
basically shown that before the Big Bang
it doesn't leave room for anything
except for a Transcendent
Creator I mean can you think of anything
else anything that else that could exist
without matter without energy without
time without space what what could exist
in that nothing and so in this way
now this is this is the accepted model
of the Big Bang at present and this
model conforms more with our religion
than it does with
science because our religion tells us
that before creation there was a
Creator okay and that explains how
everything came into existence but
scientists are not able to explain how
the big bang happened if there was no
matter space energy or time where did
the singularity come from what forces
acted upon it to cause an explosion how
did you know how did the whole thing
happen it's kind of fascinating huh
amazing yes I mean the scientists have
basically extra extrapolated backwards
using principles of physics and proven
that nothing could have existed except
for a Transcendent Creator now here
here's where we get into something I
think is just kind of fun
and that is that uh you know it's been
pointed out that because science cannot
explain where the singularity came from
how it
exploded and how the process happened to
you know to create such an intricate and
perfect Universe uh because they cannot
explain this they they've come up with
this saying that you know that basically
the atheists are saying give us one free
miracle and we can explain the rest H
give us one free miracle and we can
explain the rest and you know
look science does not work that way what
kind of a scientist says that but this
is you know and the scientists aren't
really saying that but you know not
explicitly but implicitly that's really
what it comes down to they're saying we
can't explain this we can't explain this
so why should we believe in them if they
can't explain it but they're basically
saying give us this free miracle and
they can explain the rest but first of
all no you can't have it
you can't have this free Miracle you're
going to tell us that something came
from nothing you're going to tell us
that it exploded for no reason you're
going to tell us that it became
everything and you expect us to believe
that why I mean why
exactly you know there's do you know
Freddy Prince Jr Freddy Prince Jr tell
me about him okay he was a comedian back
in my day when I was a child very famous
comedian and he had this stage routine
he he got off this funny line where he
was talking about how people uh
basically curse other people out in
different areas of the country yeah and
I forget exactly how it went I remember
the punch line but you know the you know
the first uh you know the first thing
was like in San Francisco they say you
know you can imagine the exploitive you
know to tell a person you know and then
in New York they say and in Chicago they
say you know and in Atlanta whatever you
know and then they came he came around
to one of the big cities and they say in
such and such City they say trust
me
why why should we trust you why I mean
just because you're a scientist you're a
scientist who can't explain it what kind
of scientist is that so so look the the
point is that they're saying number one
you know give us a free Miracle we
explain can explain the rest no we we're
not going to give you that okay you got
to explain it you say you're a man
science you say you know I mean you have
boxed boxed yourself in you have painted
yourself into this corner okay
um but I tell you what I'll make a deal
with
you I'll give you that free Miracle but
you've got to give me
one I mean is that a fair deal sounds
good to me what's what's the deal okay
well look I mean this is trade-off okay
mhm you're telling me to trust you
you're telling me to give you a free
Miracle um I'm just saying okay fair is
fair I tell you what just for the sake
of argument I'll give you that free
Miracle all right um you're saying that
the singularity came from nowhere and
exploded into everything for reasons you
don't understand and and you're asking
me to give that to you okay I'll give
you that but give me one give give me a
miracle okay Miracle I'm asking for is
give me the existence of a Creator which
makes more sense in the model you you've
described than your explanation which is
nothing okay at least my explanation
makes sense okay a Transcendent creator
that existed beyond the limits of space
and time uh the one who created
everything now at least we we have an
explanation but okay that's your Miracle
this is mine now let's see where we can
go with
it I said I'd give you one Miracle right
now let's make this like you know an
open open invitation we'll call this the
The Atheist and the Miracles okay a
miracle uh the miracle for the atheist
the miracle for the atheist to to the
Richard uh Dawkins out there okay to the
Sam Harris out there to anybody who
wants to try to refute this here's the
deal okay uh we open challenge to all
atheists out there from Dr Lawrence
Brown we we've given you that Miracle
okay go with it now you've given you
have to be fair you have to give us the
miracle of of a Transcendent Creator
existing before all of this happened now
let's let's go with it from
there here's the problem for the atheist
they have to explain how the big bang
violated the first law of thermodynamics
that energy and matter uh in a closed
system cannot be created or
destroyed so you're saying that
everything came from nothing that
violates the first law of thermodynamics
so you're needing a second Miracle
you're needing you're needing a Mira
Miracle to explain a law of science that
that you cannot break then you need a
third mirle because the concept of the
big brang violates the second law of
Thermodynamics which is that in a closed
system entropy will increase entropy
think of entropy as Randomness okay uh
Things become more
random unless an external Force exerts
control over it so of your teenager's
bedroom okay the sinks the kitchen sink
and the dishes in it right uh a uh
chemical um you know you know a chemical
uh process or a complex physical process
all of these things uh unless there is
an external control over it you know
unless there's somebody to pick up those
clothes in the bedroom you know to wash
the dishes and put them in order to uh
control the uh chemical reaction to
control the complex physical process
unless there's an external force that is
controlling that to establish order
instead it will degenerate into a state
of higher entropy more Randomness okay
and that tends towards chaos and so the
scientists are basically saying that the
second law of Thermodynamics is that
everything degenerates into chaos or or
into increased entropy increased
Randomness except for except for the one
most cataclysmic event in the you know
the universe actually the creation of
the universe and that is the the Big
Bang the explosion no in that case in
that case it all happened everything
came from nothing and and it expanded
out into this universe of such intricacy
that it is defined by this huge number
of finely tuned finely tuned physical
constants
so that's the that's the next Miracle
they need so they need I mean it was one
Miracle it's one Miracle okay now
there's more all right we're giving I'm
saying fair trade yeah one for one but
they're going they're going to need more
now yeah I'm saying look okay just fair
trade I'm giving you the miracle of of
the singularity being there and
exploding but now you've got to give me
the miracle of there being a Creator
okay and let's work from there I can
explain everything from the first
miracle you've given me there was a
Transcendent Creator who created
everything he used the singularity now
he you know he created The Singularity
The Singularity didn't came from come
from anywhere he created The Singularity
it exploded outwards under his control
which is which is why the universe
exists in the Perfection that it does
because it's under his control this was
this was the mechanism that our creator
used to create the universe okay that uh
that something did not come from
nothing okay there's a very important
difference something didn't come from
nothing that only applies to a closed
system a closed system with no Creator
something came from the Creator it's the
Creator who created okay it's the
Creator who controlled it so again
second law of Thermodynamics that's the
external Force controlling the expansion
in the universe and keeping it from
degenerating into uh into chaos right
but for the scientists they need a
second Miracle they need to be able to
explain the violation of the first law
of thermodynamics they need a second
Miracle a third Miracle they need to be
able to explain how the expansion of the
universe violates the uh the law of
entropy and they need more miracles
because it it just goes on and on and on
uh Evolution okay you get to the point
where they are saying uh you know they
they are explaining the origin of
biologic species you know animals or
plants
uh you know so on they are explaining
the origin of biologic species and the
diversity within those
species by the process of natural
selection
stop first of all where did the biologic
species come come from that is have you
ever heard of chemical Evolution tell us
for the audience most people probably
haven't okay chemical Evolution chemical
evolution is the process by which I mean
it's the theory but it's the so the
theory is that in the beginning there
there was no biological material in on
our Earth it was all base elements and
so the theory of chemical evolution is
that these base elements uh using
through the forces of nature and random
events were uh able to combine into the
building blocks of life amino acids
which then joined together into proteins
which then folded into functional forms
etc etc etc now scientists have
basically
proven uh eminent scientists have
basically you know drawn this into
question because uh the original
experiments that were done by Stanley um
Stanley Miller in Yuri's laboratory uh
were flawed he was using the wrong
chemicals the chemicals that he used did
not uh simulate the chemicals that were
in existence in the primordial Earth um
but further furthermore when you
extrapolate out the statistics when you
do a statistical analysis of how you
know how many events would be necessary
how many random events would be
necessary to lead to the development of
just simply one functional protein
functional protein okay um the chance of
that happening exceeds the number of
events the number of events in our
universe over time it's not plausible
okay so you need another miracle you
need a miracle to explain how base
elements devel veloped into functioning
biological material but then you need
the biggest Miracle okay and the biggest
Miracle is where does life come from
even if okay even if you accept this
process even if you say okay all right
fine yeah I mean you know you combine
the different elements they all bump
into one another and under the influence
of heat and so on and so you know they
develop the building blocks and they
combine into functional proteins and a
bunch of those proteins get together and
form a cell and so on and so on so forth
you know where did the life come from
now we talked about this in the last
episode right you know where did the
life come from uh you know this is
something that cannot be defined you
know people die and they cannot be
resuscitated and you have in front of
you uh a completely functioning human
body all right but a dead one and
sometimes you can bring it back with CPR
and sometimes you can't why can't you
bring that one back all the organs are
working right the physiology is there um
but you can't bring it back what is that
what is that property of life that we
can't capture we can't we can't put it
into a
body we cannot make something live like
we talked about before you can
Frankenstein together an animal from
functioning organs but you can't make it
live I told you about this cocko just
for the audience from last time you know
I had this coatu that um that I left for
2 days in the care of another person and
it willed itself to death out of morning
all right now 2 days is not enough time
to starve to death it's not enough time
to uh dehydrate remember we're talking
about a bird they're they're there are
birds that migrate thousands of miles
you know with minimal eating minimal
drinking and they make these long
laborious Journeys losing a huge
percentage of their body weight and so
on and so forth you're telling me a
kakatu can't survive with food and water
in its cage for 2 days you know it died
out of mour you have you know animals
have the ability to die just from sort
of willing themselves to death and so
there you have a a
biological you know material that
completely intact all the organs
functioning science cannot bring that
back to life so here's where again they
need the the biggest
Miracle life where did that come
from okay so you
know we've made a deal okay me and the
atheists I'm just this open challenge
now to all the atheists I'm just saying
this is a challenge the the Sam Harris
to to the Sam Harris to the um Richard
dark Dawkins to the Lawrence Krauss to
anybody out there who wants to just
tackle this issue I'm just saying I give
you that I I I don't believe in it I
mean there's no reason why I should give
you that the singularity just came from
nothing and burst into everything but to
be fair I give you that if you give me a
transcendent creat Creator both of them
both of them are you know amazing
Concepts but the atheists are always
asking okay you know who created the
Earth well God well you know who created
the universe well God and then they say
well who created
God okay and they say gotcha okay right
uh you ask the atheist okay who created
you know where did the Earth come from
oh well that came from you know the Big
Bang okay where did the Big Bang from
come from well that came from a
singularity we know that from the
Penrose Hawking model that you know the
singularity formed and okay and where
did the singularity come from Tada same
argument this is why it should be a fair
exchange okay you can't answer they
can't answer that argument okay and I
can't answer you know where God from
came from all I can say is I believe in
God and His
Messengers right and they they can say I
Believe In The Singularity okay fine
uh but now let's move from
there with the concept of a Transcendent
Creator we can explain absolutely
everything we can explain that he used
the Big Bang as a tool for creation of
the universe we can use we can explain
the diversity of species we can can
explain the property of life within his
creation we can
explain um you know the creation of
something from nothing it wasn't
something from nothing it was something
from our creator we can explain the
control over the universe why why our
universe is defined by all of these
exquisitly fine-tuned physical
constants and we can explain many other
things as
well that cannot be explained with
atheism atheism requires a miracle
separate from the first one to explain
each one of these things and many more
and and such a long list that they
cannot explain I'll tell you a funny
story I was watching a video on YouTube
okay Richard Dawkins was uh was asked
where did life come from and from what I
remember I mean you can look up the tube
on you can look up the YouTube video but
he was asked where did life come from he
said I don't
know he said but I have faith if I
remember correctly these were his words
I it's hard to go back but I I remember
being so struck by what he said because
I think he I think he used the word
faith I think he said you know I have
faith that science will figure it out
and I I was watching this and I was
thinking well happy days so now we see
that Richard Dawkins is a man of Faith
it's just that he's worshiping something
else he's worshiping science or he's
worship worshiping his own intellect
this is their God MH their their God is
themselves their minds their intellect
tell us we're almost out of time so
that's the one thing the open challenge
the Mir miracle and where do they go
from here the sincere person not the one
that's stubborn and resilient and
someone who's really and many have come
out of the showell where do they go from
here a couple minutes okay I mean just
very quickly a sincere humble truth
Seeker likes what you have to say and it
makes more s where do they go from here
okay I understand first of first of all
I mean I invite you to my website uh
level truth.com it's changing name to Dr
lb.com that's not Dr the full word but
just Dr lb.com so I invite you to go
there but the the main thing is the main
thing is that as we have spoken about
about before I think the main difficulty
for most scientists when they have an
awaken Awakening of belief when they
start out upon a spiritual Quest is that
they cannot find a religion that
conforms to their scientific beliefs
they just can't do it and and my point
is science criticizes Christianity on
the basis of their the theology okay
science
criticizes uh excuse me scientists
create back up scientists uh
criticize uh Christianity on the basis
of its theology now so do I okay I
criticize Christianity on the basis of
its theology read my works the first and
final commandment read misg goded
they're free downloads from my website
the message is that there is a religion
out there that conforms with what we
understand of scientific principles and
that religion is Islam think about it
think about it most atheists know that
I'm telling the truth when I when I when
I point out to them you never criticize
Islam on the basis of its theology you
always criticize Islam on the basis of
things that you don't like most of which
are wrong you're still know it because
you haven't really looked into it in
depth you've dismissed it because you've
heard Muslims are terrorists women are
subjugated uh stoning you know stoning
of the Infidel or you know stoning of
the of the person who commits adultery
etc etc you don't like these things and
and you say okay no no that can't be the
right religion that's not the way to
choose a
religion you know learn the
theology this is a religion that
believes in one God this is a religion
that believes in the continuity in the
chain of prophit Ood and and the the
books and The Messengers that came along
with it what problem do you have with
that okay we're if if you if you study
the religion you will also find Islam is
a religion of science it's the religion
in which most of the science ISS in
which most of the Sciences took their
origin because Muslims were encouraged
to gather knowledge so that's where
physiology came from that's where
medicine started that's where
mathematics chemistry physics
so many of our Sciences were born out of
of the you know out of the Muslim uh you
know out of the Muslims following the
Commandment to seek knowledge and to
develop you know develop knowledge so
not only is that a religion that
conforms with scientific principles
that's a religion that basically is the
beginning of most of our Sciences what
were we calling this again atheists the
miracle that a atheists need what was it
again
I would call this The Atheist Muslim
deal this is the deal I like the atheist
Muslim deal open challenge to this
atheist Sam Harris if his people get in
touch with our people and that he wants
to come on and have a nice talk with you
here on the D are you open that sounds
fine with me the challenge is there
thank you very much we're out of
time thanks so much thank you for tuning
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the challenge we'll see you next time
God willing peace be with you Salam