Angelina Jolie was brought to tears
while talking to the rape victims of the
Bosnian War during her visit to sh bit
read more and I learned more and I was
just so taken by um how little I knew
how little the world speaks about it and
I felt compelled to to put this story
together and then with casting everybody
from the area from all different sides
of the conflict who um who were all
personally affected by the war it was an
education every day in humanity and in
unity and and also getting to know a
culture alikum greetings of Peace how
are you guys doing now you probably
haven't heard these names Mr K Slobodan
movich we're going to give you a history
lesson a history lesson on one of the
greatest if not the greatest genocide in
modern times after World War II in
Europe they committed the worst single
atrocity seen in Europe since the second
world war you probably haven't heard
about now what do all these have in
common they were practicing Orthodox
Christians but do we blame Christianity
for these evil lunatics no so we have a
lot to talk about on this week's episode
with the former president of the Muslim
Bosnian community of Chicago Dr Hashim
chovi how are you fine thank you now we
wanted to uh recently there was the
don't uh forget or creating awareness of
San this is where almost 10,000 8,000
plus innocent human beings were killed
and rightfully so people bring up in
certain communities certain evil sad
events that have happened in the essence
and we're going to do the same thing of
creating
awareness not forgetting something like
this so it doesn't we revisit this
history so people don't forget so we can
help willing prevent something tragic
like this happening again and you you
recently uh I mentioned that you were
the former Bosnian Muslim Bosnian
president of the um Community during a
time when this evil was happening from
what was it 1991 to 1995 1992 well in
Bosnia from '92 to end of '95 but it
started in Croatia in ' 91 yeah so
around that time so those are the three
points that we want people to to walk
away with creating awareness
understanding this this great um being
aware of this great genocide many people
don't know even know about it right and
people even basian are forgetting about
it so not to steer up any hate or
animosity but to really contrast it with
with Islam uh also to contrast it um
with you know current Day events to
point out the hypocrisy and the double
standards that are here because I said
what do all these three these are the
key players the former president of
Serbia you know also the serban Republic
in Bosnia what was it uh K and they call
him the Butcher of Bosnia and these
people were just you know uh these
people were in charge of that genocide
and they were Orthodox Christians but we
don't blame Christianity do we no no so
tell us your part uh at that time um it
happened uh that I was the president of
basian American culture Association in
Nord Brook which is a suburb of Chicago
and um as the U uh violence started in
Bosnia in April 92 we U were involved in
humanitarian U help helping our people
suffering people of Bosnia so uh during
that time uh we sent um uh 20 containers
of humanitarian uh Aid to Bosnia uh we
also U um initially I helped to resettle
the refugees they were coming from
concentration camps from bosia and there
were some like 14 concentration camps uh
in Bosnia they were created by the uh
extremist serbs in Bosnia and uh these
uh uh people uh uh we help them to
resettle here we sponsor them uh and
then uh brought their families here and
U uh then uh uh we we also worked with
uh helping uh wounded people to get
medical care here in uh Chicago in
Cleveland
and and um uh we sent um uh Financial uh
help over there also to families yeah it
was just everyday uh you know working
and working to help uh those people now
this is clearly outlined as a genocide
genocide took place in the heart of
Europe in Bosnia heroa in
1995 it was the worst atrocity on
European soil since World War II they I
mean there's no debate about this was an
this was ethnic cleansing at the highest
level I mean you had the top president
slam mosovich involved in this you had
and now now you had the other tell us
about uh ravan karajic the International
arrest warrant issued for ravan kage to
leader of Europe's most brutal
experiment in racial Purity since World
War II the international war crimes
Tribunal has charged him with separate
counts of genocide crimes against
humanity who was he ra kajes uh was the
uh uh president of the so-called
Republica cska in which which is in
Bosnia which yeah and then this SL and
then the butcher they call him the
butcher the butcher yeah slan Milich
initially was the leader of the uh serbs
in Bosnia the extremist serbs in Bosnia
okay and I notic you said exem because
this is not against the Serbian people
or you know Croatian or anybody I mean
because you know there there are we're
looking at the individuals you know same
thing you have you know uh extremists in
in in all different you know religions
and whatnot and like we started off this
is not blaming Christianity blaming the
whole Serbian you know Community but you
have PE people like this who are
obviously you know charged with um
crimes against humanity who who are
responsible for killing
uh are these numbers I heard it's
somewhere between 100,000 to 200,000
people who in innocent people who were
killed two over 2 million people
displaced I mean innocent men women and
children they had rape camps de camps
serbs executed men women and children
the river became a mass grave but 24
years on the memory of horror is being
deliberately
erased and nowhere is it more obvious
than here ramza muhich was raped here at
the villain of vas Hotel other survivors
say it was used as a rape
Camp ramza says she was attacked by
Milan lukic a commander in the white
Eagles militia later jailed for mass
murder Bosnian Muslim men and boys were
selected for murder not only on account
of their Muslim faith but also because
of their
gender the women suffered a different
fate serin was the culmination of a
brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing
across Bosnia Herz arena in which 20 to
50,000 women and girls were victims of
genocidal
rape yes some estimates are over 200,000
people have been killed and uh over 2
point some say even over 2.6 million
people are displaced there are refugees
within the Bosnia and outside the Bosnia
let's pick this picture now so so this
war is happening but many PE some key
points is the War uh it starts so you
have you were telling me that the
Serbian Army uh was the four third or
fourth most powerful army in the world
in the Europe which third third yes now
was the Bosnian Army was there a Bosnian
Army well well uh it was not Serbian
Army it was a Yugoslavian Army okay okay
but then later when the conflict started
um in Croatia and Bosnia it turned into
a serbs uh controlled Army so it became
serbs Army okay because 70% of the
general in the Yugoslavian Army were uh
you know officer generals were serbs so
they took control of the army and U
bosan did not have the Army uh the
Bosnian the Yugoslavian Army was the
army of of all people in Yugoslavia and
and basian people never thought that uh
Yugoslavian Army will commit these
crimes that they did they believed in
their army and they supported the Army
and people served in the in in the Army
and they were proud to serve the army so
they never thought never imagined that
this Army will commit the crimes that
this Army did yeah so so they had no
weapons to defend themselves that's your
god-given right to defend yourself so
you couldn't even defend yourself what
uh what some some weapons were uh
available locally but then uh uh the
Yugoslavian uh Yugoslavian government
was very uh uh wise and uh you know
within the last year before conflict
broke in in in Bosnia they took around
they took all the weapons from uh from
uh people that they had you know uh uh
so they basically ended up with no
weapons except some hunting guns and
some little pistols and things like that
you know that's how they started um and
and started building Army uh within the
uh neighbors you know within within the
neighborhoods so so this um uh this
President and then the president from
within and then this uh top General
obviously these were people who wanted
to exterminate Muslims they were racist
I heard that there was uh the
nationalism they were really pushing
this this nationalism songs were being
sung you know and just pumping the
people up kind of contrast that like
today we see we see some of that you
know this nationalism like you know
creating the other what what do you what
you well you see uh back in uh 1987 slod
mosovich was addressing the Serbian
communist Congress and at that time he
he U expressed um uh he he was saying
that Serbia is not getting enough from
the Yugoslavian Federation you know they
deserve more and then he also uh said uh
that uh uh serbs should live all in a in
a one big powerful country called
greater Serbia so uh uh there were most
of the most of the uh people living in
in in that uh uh in Serbia at that time
were serbs ethnic serbs but also so
there were some uh ethnic serbs uh they
were living as a minority in Croatia and
Bosnia and and uh some of these were
extremists you know they were blinded by
the Serbian nationality and they uh
accepted uh uh this with enthusiasm you
know and and and that's how thing things
started he woke the uh nationalism
within uh um uh these extremists yeah
and and that's what we see and another
thing he said wherever whatever uh so
their motto is whatever serbs live
that's Serbia yeah that's what what
these uh you know Serbian nationalists
are believing in uhhuh was that kind of
you see that white supremacy kind of you
know what we see somewhat today but this
is another form of that that racism that
this is when now let's contrast that to
Islam when you look at you know the
original sin what we see was that um
that arrogance the the original sin of
the devil Shan when you see like um when
out of respect when God had ordered
shitan to bow down he said I'm better
than him you know this racism and that's
the root of all evil so we can see that
here happening taking it to an extreme
extent where ours is better than yours
and fighting this you know where Prophet
Muhammad said this stinks this this
nationalism right and this extreme
version of it that actually LED them to
go ahead and Commit This genocide to
want to wipe the whole uh Muslim Bosnian
Community off the
map right they were not concerned about
democracy they were planning uh soodan
mosovich the former president of Serbia
uh he together with the uh top uh uh
military leaders of Yugoslavian army
they were uh they uh made plans and they
organized uh uh this genocide in Bosnia
and uh their main uh thing was to uh
eliminate Muslims from certain from
certain areas in a Bosnia especially in
eastern Bosnia uh and U
uh along the western part of theena
river and that's where Sera was on the
uh uh Sera and
then gajde and jeppa and they were
called safe Zone of United Nations and
uh uh but Serbia they they wanted to uh
take over and occupy all those three uh
safe zones of United Nations uh and uh
that was their strategy to to uh to make
it part of Serbia mhm we're going to go
ahead and take a break and even in uh we
we'll get into that next even in the
safe Zone this is that um what what
recently we had the event with um what
was it uh never forget San is that what
it is where over 8,000 people died and
they were supposed to be safe by the
peacekeepers the UN was there but right
under the watch all these 8,000 plus
innocent human beings were were were um
systematically massacred is that right
yes we're going to continue from there
and revisiting this so we can learn from
it and hopefully to prevent something
evil like this from happening again
don't go anywhere be right back they
took 248 un peacekeepers hostage and in
July that year they committed the worst
single atrocity seen in Europe since the
second world war they overran the small
Muslim town of Sanita which had been
designated a un safe area and they went
on an orgy of mass executions there was
an assault on garage day there was
assault on jeea and there was this
terrible assault on ston to this day you
you know the numbers are staggering
8,000 or so Muslim men and boys
slaughtered just because they were
Muslim back here on the dean show okay
so we covered you have nationalism okay
you're I'm an American I'm Bosnian I
love my country I love uh my background
also my parents are from Bosnia and I
thought this is something important
because other communities as I mentioned
they bring up you know certain events
that have happened to them in the
essence of preventing something evil
like that happening to them again and
not to stir up any hate or animosity
because you have you know people from
Serbia from CA from from these walks are
really good you know really good people
and but then you have extremist
extremists radicals in every you know
community and then we brought up the
point that these were Orthodox
Christians and Orthodox Church actually
is on record saying that you know
praising the ravan karajic as one of the
most prominent sons of our Lord Jesus
Christ the Greek Orthodox Church
described him as quote one of the most
prominent sons of our Lord Jesus Christ
working for peace but you never really
hear do you have you heard you don't
hear much connection back um in the
media or through any of the news reports
um saying that these were Radical
Christians it's kind of like what you
you do as soon as someone's a Muslim you
know Islam is on the witness stand you
know it's it's a it's it's a showcased
like this is Islam motivating them and
whatnot but you don't have you heard
that ever the contast is being made no I
I never heard um uh Christian terrorists
uh it is usually U Islamic or Muslim
terrorists and U uh first of all um
there is no Islamic uh terrorism or
Islamic terrorism because Islam does not
teach terrorism it teaches peace and uh
coexistence and tolerance so uh you know
or how about when you hear this radical
Islam what do you say they say radical
Islam uh because obviously if we going
to play that game they were practicing a
form of radical Christianity but we
don't blame Christianity right this is
just radical because you have footage
right now people are seeing you know
they're in the church right you know uh
with the with the priest sitting and
this is like a crusade this was like
almost one can say this was a modern day
holy what they would say there's no such
thing as a holy war but to these people
this was a holy war to exterminate
Muslims well uh if Christians are true
Christians they would follow the message
of uh Jesus Christ and he was teaching
peace and love you know but these uh
extremist uh you know in in in Bosnia
they were doing opposite of of what
Jesus uh was teaching so they were not
they were not really uh Christians
because they were not following the uh
Christian message which is peace and
love loving your neighbor yes yes yes
you know Mass killing wow what was uh
Jesus teaching you know when you slap
him in the face he he turned the other
side to slap him again but these people
know man they uh they were being
unprovoked and they were U doing uh you
know uh crimes and trying to eliminate
Muslims from uh
um from most of the parts of the BOS you
know now do you have like the the
because we see it's very sad and
unfortunate that you have you know you
have whole stadiums
[Applause]
you had people when uh recently not too
long ago ran kovich and some of these I
think got 40 years that was he got 40
but he got convicted for for um crimes
against humanity for genocide guilty of
the following
counts count two
genocide count three persecution a crime
against
humanity count four guilty on 10 out of
11 counts a Lany of Cruelty murder a
crime against humanity here he was today
inscrutable but guilty of atrocities
committed in a war that cost over
100,000 lives created millions of
refugees and became the darkest chapter
of postwar European history and um you
see you you see people held them as
icons
[Music]
radom ladic called Europe's biggest
killer since Adolf Hitler 1995 in
eastern Bosnia serbs are fighting
Muslims don't worry madic tells this boy
we'll look after you a lie within hours
of Shona Massacre began around 8,000
Muslims
murdered at the same time ladage led the
4year siege of
Saro the longest Siege in modern history
10 thousand died from Serb shells and
snipers the international court of
justice indicted madit for genocide and
crimes against humanity but couldn't
find
him at first he hid in plain sight
attending weddings soccer matches
visiting restaurants and then a $20
million bounty on his head he
disappeared until today today we
arrested R you know whole stadiums you
know they they would be chanting their
names that's the scary part but have you
had have you had dialogue with some some
uh serbians or people from this area who
have who have come because if someone
does something in the name of Islam
we'll be like hold on that he doesn't
represent Islam these people don't
people who do such evil acts who are
doing opposite to Islam will be the
first to condemn we become almost
professional condemners right but have
you have them come up and condemn these
acts these this genocide which like we
said is the biggest genocide since World
War II after the World War II some of my
all patients uh condemn these things uh
Orthodox uh Christians from former
Yugoslavia they condemn these things and
also
uh we need to also uh uh say U uh this
there was a whole Brigade in a in a
basian army that was formed in during uh
during uh those three years of war three
and a half years uh there was called um
uh
slav uh
prava which means it it was it was it
contained all the Orthodox uh Christians
they were fighting uh in defense of
Bosnia oh the whole whole Brigade so
they weren't with the rad these
rad they they uh they were defending
Bosa and and and and they were not
extremist you know you see okay so you
had good you had these good serbians who
are stepping up fighting along with the
Muslim basian against the evil that was
being perpetuated against them and there
were some also that I know uh uh from a
little town that I came from Eastern
Bosnia they were they were running away
from Bosnia into uh into Montenegro to
hide so that they don't go into uh serbs
extremist Army you know they didn't want
to uh fight against their Muslim
neighbors and and and hurt them and you
know so there are people like that and
that upsets me when when sometimes even
you know some bosnians will try to
blanket statement and have that hate and
Islam doesn't teach us that against all
serbians Islam doesn't teach us that I I
had uh instances where patients walk in
my office and you know while waiting uh
in the waiting room they will sometimes
say you know all serbs are same so I had
to stop him right there I said look wait
you are wrong it's not true you cannot
uh make judgment and judge the whole
group because I know definitely there
are some good uh uh you know serbs and
they were even in the bosan army
fighting against this aggressor you know
and against these crimes against the
invasion of Bosnia so you cannot do that
don't don't say that I also have some
patients that uh don't agree with you
and and and and are not extremist so you
know in every in every group of people
you have a a good and you have a bad and
uh uh but in Bosnia the sad thing that
uh most of the uh orthodox uh serbs uh
were uh following uh their nationalism
their national leaders blindly without
questioning them without uh um uh you
know
U that's what you opposing uh uh their U
uh uh wrong ideas and things like that
you so that's wow that's how it shows
and illustrates how important is to have
good leaders what would impact you know
a leader and with this nationalism and I
heard the songs and pumping people up
and we see that with the politics here
today contrasting it you know uh feeding
creating uh this manufactured fear right
and this manufactured hate like
Hollywood often say that's manufactured
there's a legitimate fear you fear you
know uh some Thunder you hear but then
you go to the movies that's manufactured
that's Hollywood so creating it like
Muslims are terrorists they're here to
you know Sharia you hear all this
nonsense right and now you you you're
scared of your neighbor and you see that
uh and then and then the guns start
coming out and you start looking at
these people as less human and then you
have a genocide happening right most
people that do those things uh actually
they are ignorant about subject they
talking about and they're also arrogant
you know and uh uh but in this case with
kage he was an educated psychiatrist but
uh you know it seems like uh he needed
some help himself he was a psychiatrist
a doctor
he was he was he was uh uh his college
education he was going to S uh he he got
educated there he lived there and uh uh
instead of taking care of that City he
was shelling it uh you know unbelievable
I mean what kind of mind is that I mean
a Criminal Mind well we're going to take
a break and we'll be right back with
more revisiting history so we can God
willing prevent something a travesty
like this one of the great the greatest
genocide to happen after World War I
World War II on on European soil that
you probably didn't know about we're
visiting it educating you on this lost
history almost
forgotten don't go anywhere let's not
forget that this was a Slaughter of
civilians not a traditional Army against
Army it was a completely unlevel playing
field right down to the fact that they
were perched on the mountains
surrounding Saro and the civilians were
in all these Valley towns and cities who
are being sniped who are being shelled
at bread lines at water lines um you
know crossing the road children even
women old
men back here on the dean show all right
so let's paint a picture SVO is sieged
you got snipers there's like mountains
around and people going to get some
bread
getting some food because it was a
scarcity right and you had events is
that true that these snipers were
ordered to just shoot innocent
civilians methods included the bombing
of civilians first in the capital Saro
and then in dozens of other
places for the next three and a half
years the world would watch The Siege
and bombardment of Saro massacres in
Market places sniper and mortar attacks
on civilians and concentration camps
filled with Muslims the goal was to
carve out an ethnically pure Serb statet
yes yes can you can you elaborate on
that well um uh uh for example um people
were standing um people were at at uh at
the market you know uh buying and
selling things and there will be at one
time they shell the market and a lot of
people got killed there a lot of people
wounded you know and U but then they say
you know uh the the Serb uh leaders say
no those those were Muslims that were
shelling their own people to evoke uh uh
sympathy from from the from the uh you
know um from the from the world
community so that they will uh turn
against the serbs I mean that's that's
complete disinformation you know uh and
then another instance uh in TLA they
also did same thing like that they uh
you know they were shelling uh people U
uh in in you know outside in the groups
and uh kill and M many people you know
yeah another interesting thing is yeah
go ahead I'm Sor and uh people are
staying uh in a breadline you know and
and they will they will they will shell
and you know um and wound many people
like kill and wound many people like
that so another interesting thing is I
mean it's a god-given right that you
have uh to defend yourself your home
your family and is it true that there
was
a who was it that suggested or actually
um brought up the idea then it passed
into the arms embargo was this from the
the the Army how did that come about
that that that meaning that uh the the
BOS the Muslims the Bosnian Muslim
bosnians they weren't even allowed to
have this god-given right to defend
themselves with arms the UN had banned
arm Sals to the region to reduce the
violence this left the Muslims
practically defenseless against the
serbs well uh when uh Croatia and
Slovenia uh declared independence on
June 25th
1991 uh the Yugoslavian Army moved in uh
in Slovenia and and was fighting there
for a couple of weeks and then moved out
in into Croatia and uh uh the U
Slaughter of innocent uh croats who were
catholic Christians started there and
according to some estimates over uh you
know it was in 10,000s that uh uh of
those people were killed in in uh in the
next in the next year and then uh the
United Nations under the pretext of uh
uh preventing escalation of the war in
their region they uh evoked arm embargo
on September 26
1991 but that did great Injustice to
croatians because they didn't have Army
and they were just forming the Army and
trying to defend themselves against the
Yugoslav Army that was you know armed to
their teeth you know and then uh uh
after about 10 months in April 92 the uh
Bosnia had a referendum and they
approved uh uh
to uh uh become independent uh uh
independent uh Republic in independent
country and U uh people that came out to
vote it's like uh 90 over 90% of people
voted for the independence of Bosnia but
some of the ethnic serbs didn't like
that and started you know uh uh creating
violence in Bosnia and after about 10
months uh there was a peace agreement in
Croatia and that peace agreement
stipulated that uh uh uh now yugosl
Yugoslavian Army now serb's Army uh to
move either to Serbia or Bosnia and and
United Nations did not disarm the Serb
Army allow them to move with the heavy
weapons into into Bosnia they chose to
move to Bosnia so you see uh the United
Nations uh you know they should actually
disarm the Serb Army right there and if
they did uh these atrocities would be
preventable in Bosnia but then uh when
when the war shifted into Bosnia they
applied the arms embargo on Bosnia too
even though it was uh and United Nations
recognized Bosnia as independent but
they applied the arms embargo on Bosnia
people who were armless and couldn't
defend themselves had no Army I mean
what a hypocrisy you know and uh 50
members of the security Council they
voted for their arms embargo I'm sorry
to say but even our own country United
States voted for arms embargo and never
voted to to get rid of it you know so
all the things that happen in Bosnia all
those countries that voted for arms
embargo they are also indirectly
responsible for all the war crimes in
Croatia and Bosnia so it's kind of like
okay we're not going to come uh to help
you know uh stop this genocide but we're
not even we're going to tie your hands
and not let you defend yourself yeah and
and and and said but true
who why this arms embargo was um uh
established the Yugoslavian army
officers asked the United Nations to to
uh make arms embargo on former
Yugoslavia because it you know they had
arms they need no arms uglam Army had
arms up to their teeth they third
strongest army in the world third
strongest army in the Europe and fifth
strongest in the world at that time so
they didn't need the arms and and you
know uh to have arms embargo there is
basically to prevent the people the
victims who they victimize to prevent
those victims to defend themselves
against the aggressor okay uh tell us
this now you're expecting the un uh the
peacekeepers there they're also armed
right uh yes uh uh uh they they're
they're supposed to you feel kind of
safe right you feel like okay um I guess
this town suban uh is supposed to be
controlled by the UN and what happens
there I heard okay so they they ended up
um getting massacred right under the
nose of the UN while the world called
the serbs destruction of Muslim
communities ethnic cleansing Richard
Holbrook called it genocide bosnia's
Muslims endure 15 more months of
heartbreak and Slaughter the UN
established what it called safe areas
but without enough Force to make them
safe thousands of Muslims sought refuge
in
San and in July
1995 serbs overran the small un Force
there and they captured the town in ban
over 8,000 innocent people describe that
what happened there that was with the uh
un uh uh wanted to
uh uh they were asking for 6,000 uh umor
forces umor supposed to be like a
peacekeeping uh forces in Bosnia and
they ask for 6,000 men but they only got
450,000 and uh 450 450 uh soldiers in
there and uh no country wanted to uh
risk their soldiers uh but uh you know
Holland Dutch government they accepted
their responsibility and uh uh they uh
put 450 of their soldiers in there with
a uh
light um you know lightly armed with no
heavy real heavy artillery okay and
those zones were called safe zones and
uh there was not supposed to be shelling
from outside into those zones but the
shelling the serbs continue to Shell SN
and other uh uh so-called safe zones
like a JEA and gor they continue to
Shell and and to destroy civilian
objects homes uh uh buildings uh
religious uh uh you know structures
serbs attack parts of the capital Saro
to force the Muslims out they destroyed
mosques they burned
books and they systematically raped
Muslim women and girls and to kill uh
innocent civilians and to uh to create
uh uh terrible living condition for
those people within you know lack of
food lack of uh heating lack of
electricity lack of everything you know
sber was concentration camp in uh as a
safe Zone under the protection of United
Nations they were concentration camps
they were not protected you know uh um
it were just a concentration
camp what what if someone says okay this
is war you know when you when you talk
about they actually she had rape camps
other survivors say it was used as a
rape
camp we know that women were selected
for an unimaginable campaign of sexual
violence slavery and forced
impregnation the exact figures are not
known because shame and stigma prevent
many from speaking
out uh they had people in concentration
camps who were um being beaten starved
tortured um if someone says this is this
is just um the consequence of War
right they were doing the B the Muslims
were doing the same thing have you he
have you heard this argument uh yes and
the aggressor is trying to equalize uh
victims with the aggressors which is uh
uh totally uh that's disinformation that
they are spreading around uh uh bosnians
uh did not go and attack Serbia or
Monro uh Bosnia was attacked by the
Yugoslavian Army and the uh extremist
serbs who were called chetniks and they
were killing everybody that was not Serb
okay including uh serbs uh those who
were not extremists and were defending
Bosnia and were fighting against them
who what they who weren't it seems like
it's kind of like uh the the Christian
Crusaders way back when who who didn't
who were who would even kill Christians
who weren't practicing their form of
Christianity this is basically modern
Crusade yeah but you don't hear that
mention again again again I just want to
stress the point that we don't blame
Christianity and pointing out the
hypocrisy and double standard because
people expect Muslims to be professional
condemners for everything so also we
should be fair and balanced right and
call out certain things and and and be
just and fair in analyzing these things
and we know that this does not apply to
Christianity but you have radical
elements also from among some some
Muslims right but you don't you can't
blame Islam let's go and contrast that
with what we believe is the last and
final messenger sent to mankind of prop
Muhammad peace be upon him the Rules of
Engagement and combat uh when when there
was a there are so many situations but
it just outlines the mercy even you know
in combat where you're not allowed to
kill innocent men women children Prophet
Muhammad saw a woman who had had been
killed he was angry you know let alone
uh uh rape camps this this is be the
first thing you know on the day of
judgment if someone killed innocent
blood a Muslim is scared to have any
innocent blood be it from a S innocent
Serb innocent Croatian anybody you know
who's innocent in these things it's
different when someone's pointing a gun
at you coming with a machete at gun
knife you have a right that's you're in
combat but now raping women sniper you
know shooting people in the bread Market
uh does Islam give justification to this
because it's war no no there's no
justification to kill innocent uh people
doesn't matter if they are Muslims or
not Muslims because Islam uh uh teaches
uh you know it's right in Quran you know
Allahu says that if you kill one
innocent human being it does not say one
innocent Muslim it says one innocent
human being it is like a killing the
whole world yes you know so
uh
um uh these rules of aape that's that's
the the thing that's incredible like the
the the pro the prophet Muhammad peace
be upon him who's a brother to Jesus
Moses Abraham they all brought the same
message worship the Creator not the
creation you know this is the same the
Creator uh who created us all and and
and called us you know to be good to our
neighbors and I think do we take some
responsibility here that we also went
away from calling people to to to
educating people on Islam educating
people doing the daah you follow me uh
how much accountable self you know
analyzation on us as Muslims some
accountability right is there anything
again you can't now blame uh blame
yourself for this person killing and
Ming you but what would you say uh for
for to prevent something like this
happening again for external right for
the world to know but then internal
what's our duty you know for for
bosnians for Muslims you know uh
educating you know Humanity what you
know doing more doubt what what would
you say is is well we should uh educate
the uh future Generations about the
truth that
happened and uh we should also uh uh
educate our future Generations not to be
naive but to be alert and to be prepared
uh for uh things like this in a future
okay because uh people in Bosa were not
prepared they were mostly naive people
uh even during those uh 10 months of War
raging in Croatia
uh the basian leadership was uh naive
and made a big mistake with the uh
current president um at that time they
made a mistake of not uh preparing for
the war in case it moves in Bosnia and
arming them uh arming their people
because the bosan leadership was saying
it's not many times they repeated this
it is not our war it is war between
Croatia and Serbia you know which is
very naive and you know your neighbor is
you know being attacked in Croatia and
being killed and slaughtered and raped
and and and you are saying it's a war
between them it's war between them and
not you hey that has a potential to uh
uh come over into Bosnia what are you
doing about about it are you preparing
yourself uh to defend yourself you have
a right to defend yourself so get armed
you had a 10 months yeah they didn't do
nothing
mhm uh I want to go I want to go back
just briefly um we're almost out of time
a few more points but when I was saying
like uh Prophet Muhammad peace blessing
be upon him where he clearly said
there's no killing of uh innocent men
women children uh monks people priests
PE PE I'm sorry people in places of
worship tearing down places of worship
no destruction of property and and trees
and yeah it's it's amazing you see you
see these things clearly outlined and
then um on on the other side you see
some of the most horrific
evil happening and it saddens the heart
you know that these things have happened
and again I reiterate this is not to
stir up you know because many people
they'll take this these incidents and
try to you know use this as fuel and
fire to create animosity is that what uh
yeah uh some people benefit from that uh
it could be economically they could be
uh you know uh position wise to keep
their uh you know power and all that so
people will do things like that um you
know but that's not our intention here
today this is clearly not Our intention
it's like I said it's to revisit to
create awareness and you were you got
inspired there was a there was an Imam
who actually uh because the saan the the
anniversary was like a few weeks ago
right uh yes and there was a there was
an IM a local Imam who was talking about
this kind of touched you can you can can
you talk about the points that he had
mentioned yeah you see uh the uh July
11th is um the date that uh uh you know
people try to remember what happened in
sber inside that's that's the day uh
when seranta fell to the serbs uh and
then uh during the next uh like next uh
uh 24 to 48 hours over 2,000 people have
been slaughtered you know that's how
extensive and quick and brutal it it was
and then in the next five to five to S
days there was another over 5,000 people
have been killed and slaughtered uh uh
on on the way uh as as they were trying
to escape from sence towards uh um TLA
now uh during uh uh this Imam our Imam
he was talking about at that time he was
like 17 18 and he was very young and one
of his assignments was as a reporter to
uh go to uh TLA airport and uh report
about these people coming from sance and
he said you know he will never forget uh
some of the things that he saw how these
people were arriving they were going uh
through the uh hilly uh Woody uh uh
mountains uh you know for day
uh trying to escape from s to to Safe
area in TLA it's like a some 60 some
kilomet okay and it took him uh days and
uh he would see people you know uh uh
they were scared they were uh uh hungry
they were their clothes were torn they
were uh without shoes with it was just a
you know terrible situation you know U
yeah
uh have you heard people um who have
gone through it and survive because
anything that has happened a catastrophe
like you know an evil like this usually
uh there are good ultimately you can see
some people they don't see but sometimes
you know some evil might happen in your
life but then a greater good happens
right so God out of his ultimate wisdom
he allows certain things to happen for a
greater good and we see a lot of people
uh have you talked to them that uh
before this happened uh they really
weren't focusing on they weren't serious
in life they they really were just you
know living uh life um without any
purpose but this really this this
tragedy forced them to wake up to to see
that man I can you know uh all this can
these blessings can be taken away I need
to take life seriously you follow me
have you have yeah uh well a lot of
people uh before before this conflict in
uh in Bosnia they were uh basically uh
running uh after the uh uh Material
World okay and uh neighbors were
competing with neighbors you know who's
going to have a better car who's going
to have a bigger house and things like
that uh very little attention was given
to the uh to the Creator and what will
happen when I die you know yeah and uh
so uh during this conflict a lot lot of
people realize look you know uh they
were happy they didn't care if they lost
everything you know all the material
possessions as long as they saved their
head their life you know so many of them
realized and many turned back to God and
and became good Believers you know uh
but then uh some of some of those uh
once the confli conflict stopped they
turned back to the old ways you know but
a lot of them stayed uh true
to uh to
um what they turned back to you know mhm
uh they they became good Muslims good
Believers and uh they stayed on that
path yeah they learned the lesson and uh
but some uh some will never learn the
lesson until it is too late do Orthodox
Christians from that area do they know
and that was our our lack of educating
do they know that we as Muslims love
Jesus do they know that we believe in
him as a mighty messenger do they know
that there there are so many
commonalities between us I uh I doubt it
because uh even U uh you doubt that they
know that I I doubt they know that uh
maybe some maybe their uh uh priests
probably know that uh but they don't
teach them about it yeah uh because it's
not in their interest okay they will
probably lose the job if they do that so
I mean even many Muslims in Bosnia don't
know that you know if you mention Jesus
it's like wow you know you know it's
like and they don't realize that Jesus
was just another great prophet uh of God
you know and and that he was also a a
Muslim and teaching Islam and teaching
message of uh submitting your will to
the will of God that all prophets were
teaching same message and and uh
submitting your will to the will of God
when translated in Arabic is means Islam
that's all it is that's it right you
know yes so you know so uh and you
cannot be Muslim unless you believe in
all prophets of God including Jesus you
know mhm yeah you can't be so if Muslims
are learning their faith okay and
practicing their faith and then teaching
others non-muslims you know that we love
Jesus uh maybe the relationship would be
better uh uh with other uh non-muslim
people MH because they will realize hey
they also uh rever respect and love
Jesus just like we you know yeah we just
don't worship him as a God or literal
Son of God right because Jesus never
called people to worship himself but he
called people to worship God and and
that that's amazing uh because that's
what I'm talking about the internal
right to be sincere with ourselves and
look internally what we need to we need
some adjustments we need to make some
adjustments to start living really
submission to the will of God right not
forgetting our creator right and then
wondering you know calamities happen and
then what what what do you expect yeah
and and and uh you
know uh probably all Christians in in in
uh in in former
Yugoslavia don't realize that Jesus was
a Muslim yeah so uh we're almost out of
time you you you you told me once um
that the bosnians there they had uh they
were called before the booo what was it
called uh bosnians uh the history of
bosnians uh or basan Muslims uh goes
back to like
um uh 7th century when uh when uh uh one
group of uh uh Christians uh Orthodox
Christians from Bulgaria to avoid uh
persecution because uh they were they
were believing their their belief was
very close to the Islamic belief like
like those early Christians you know
that followed the message of Jesus very
closely so and they believed in one God
and Alo on on on some of their
tombstones there was a moon and and and
and and and you know just like Muslims
have a mo a crescent and uh so they
moved from Bulgaria West to Bosnia into
mountainous and Bosnia is a three
quarter mountainous uh uh uh country so
they were they were they were being
called BS bog means god and Mill dear so
they were called people dear to God and
uh uh the um Catholics from Croatia uh
were constantly attacking them and
trying to Cath catholici them make them
Catholics and then the from from East
the the serbs were attacking them trying
to make them uh Orthodox Christians they
resisted that successfully by moving
into mountains and defending themselves
then when the ottoman uh when the Turks
came uh the Ottoman Empire and uh
especially uh
uh uh Sultan alati uh uh he brought
Islam to Bosnia back in 15th century and
uh there were they and and and they were
very tolerant of these people that they
found in bosia uh and they allowed them
to practice their way their religion and
and you know they were they did not
force them to become Muslims so when
when these bomil saw how tolerant Turks
were uh with them uh they voluntarily
embraced Islam there there are cases
that uh you know on one field uh uh in
one day over 60,000 of these people
embraced Islam this is in history is
document in history documented wow you
know so most of the uh uh Muslims in
Bosnia uh come from bomil uh and from
from these people that came from
Bulgaria and then uh some are from the
uh from the Turks that stayed in Bosnia
okay when the Turkish aomine retreated
back to Turkey after uh
1878 Berling Congress okay and then uh
uh some are uh uh local people you know
uh Catholics or Orthodox Christians that
embrac the Islam because they believe in
their message or they want to keep their
position you know in their society yeah
so but those are minority numbers you
know uh and uh the these extremist serbs
they hate these uh Muslims and they call
them uh uh traitors you know they they
believe that they that Muslims before
were uh Orthodox Christians that
embraced Islam uh when the uh uh you
know otoman Empire came into U uh
Balkans well we we're just following the
the the the organic the true way of
Jesus and Moses and Abraham they all
submitted their will to God that's all
we're doing now if there's there are a
lot of because the the the the message
of pure monotheism it resonates with the
heart and if there's what advice we got
to curil it we got to cut it we went a
little bit over time but for any Serbian
for any catian any per Slavic from that
part of the world who's not stuck on
that okay Islam doesn't call you to to
you if you become a Muslim tomorrow do
you have to stop being a Serb no you're
still a Serb but you're yeah you are you
ethnicity is Ser seran but if if they're
if they want to be right ethnicity is
Serb but nationalism is servian yeah
okay so if they want to be right with
God they don't believe that Jesus
praying to Jesus and many people reject
this right but they just kind of go
along with the flow they're like I don't
believe you know uh Jesus died for my
sins I don't believe that he was the
literal Son of God but I believe in the
god that Jesus worshiped and I I I like
this concept of worshiping the Creator
not the creation you know and I want to
look into more of the life of prophet
muhammmad I believe he was the final
message they did a little research or
they they watched some of the dean shows
and and what advice but you know what
it's very difficult I I had we had
individual name is Gan I won't mention
his last name uh and others who who have
spent a little time with Muslims and
they it connects because the message is
believable it's based on proof but they
get a lot of backlash from the community
what advice do you have for them well
you know I I I tell these people let's
analyze and see what Jesus was doing you
know and I say you know this and let's
see who is better Christian you or me
they say how can you be a better
Christian when you are Muslim you know
how can you be better Christian than me
when you are a Muslim I said well let's
analyze this let me ask you a few
questions who did Jesus pray to and they
say he prayed to God okay I said okay
but who do you pray to who who do uh
most of the Christians pray to most of
them pray to Jesus uh then uh how did
Jesus pray you
know you know there are pictures of him
I mean not pictures but drawings of him
uh uh kneeling down on the ground on his
forehead and on on palms of hands
praying okay uh that's how he was
praying uh and how Muslims prayed that's
how Muslims prayed uh you know and and
Christians pray on their knees or
standing you know and then uh I asked
him okay uh did Jesus uh uh was Jesus
circumcised yes he was the E day okay
and uh all of his disciples were
circumcised you know and you know and
all early Christians were circumcised
now all Muslim boys get circumcised uh
uh you know um uh and but most
Christians don't get circumcised
especially like in in in in these uh you
know
serbs and other people you know they
don't believe in that uh the difference
is in uh Western countries where they uh
practice hygiene okay yeah uh then I ask
him okay did Jesus uh eat pork you know
they say no you know know that you know
and I say yeah okay Muslims don't eat
pork okay but most Christians eat pork
so how do he greet people uh and yes
that's another thing I I asked him I
said uh you know uh what was his
greeting uh they they don't know it was
a shalam alayum which you can check this
it's in in Luke Chapter 24:36 and you
can verify this yourself okay and
Muslims greed each other Salam alaykum
which means peace be upon you mhm so
when you and but Christians don't don't
say Salam Alum to each other peace be
with you you know uh so you see Muslims
are doing all they are they are actually
following teachings of Jesus they doing
what he's doing saying what he is saying
uh calling on the god he's calling he
wor Muslims are not you know Jesus is
not worshiping himself now he was
teaching his followers to worship God
who created him yes but why most
Christians are worshiping Jesus when he
did not worship himself they're not
following his teachings you know so
Muslims are following all of his
teachings so who is better a Christian
now if if if we decide that uh you know
uh uh if we decide that uh you know
um according to the uh
we judge who is better uh Christian uh
according to what you following are you
following teachings of Jesus then you
know Muslims who follow his teachings
they are you know better Christians than
than Christians because they not
following his teachings this is just
very interesting uh it's even translated
because he spoke Aramaic that he called
on God by the name allaha Allah Allah
this is it so if anyone sincere they'll
see the truth is there in submission to
the will of God which is Islam and a
Muslim is simply one like you said who
their will to God and and Arabic
Christians they they call God Allah yeah
this is it okay so uh so a person if
he's Serbian Croatian whatever first
they would you say they got to be
sincere with God and not be worried
about the national because that's not
nationalism not going to save you on a
day of judgment if they say they are
following uh uh they are they are good
Christians then they should be honest
with it they should find really what
Jesus was teaching and follow that his
message and and and not following what
church is teaching them because uh you
know church is teaching them things that
many things that Jesus did not teach and
there are contradictory to teachings of
Jesus is is Islam open to all the
Christians is it open to all the
cretians is it open for them they can
accept it anytime yes yes yes anybody is
welcome to learn about Islam and to uh
uh Embrace uh and submit their will to
will of God yeah I want to thank you
very much we went this was a very
exciting show again reiterating uh
revisiting not to forget uh so we can
help prevent this genocide which was the
greatest genocide on European soil uh
after World War II uh last closing
comments and suggestions for for the
people listening uh who are out there
and they they they have you know uh many
U they've been affected by the Hate
Machine they hear a lot of negative
things about Islam you know what do you
what do you like to tell people um who
who've been affected by the Hate Machine
uh uh well um I would say that they need
to do their own research and find the
truth and uh uh one of the reasons why
God sent us to this earth is to improve
relationships with each other and to
help each other and we should work on
that drich thank you very
much thank you very my pleasure I I uh
uh ask God for forgiveness for our our
shortcomings and hopefully uh this will
be useful information and it will
stimulate those who don't know about
this situation to do a little more uh um
of their own research and U to learn a
little bit more about it and U maybe uh
help uh uh in future to prevent such
things uh wherever it is I mean thank
you so much and thank you for tuning in
to the dean show and I hope you got to
benefit revisiting this history so we
can prevent God willing through
awareness something tragic like this
something evil like this happening again
and if you're a Serb you're a Kian
whoever you are out there Islam is open
for all of mankind you just got to be
sincere with yourself and ask the owner
the creator of mankind for guidance
start there and continue to tune in
every week here to the dean show and
we'll see you next time if you have any
questions concerns call us 1800 662
Islam we're here to help and we do this
out of the love we'll see you next time
peace be with you Salam
alikum there's only one and Jesus was
his
messenger
Allah there's only one word and muhamad
is his messenger
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