greetings of peace welcome to the dean
show my next guest spent
eight years in the monastery
and he ended up having a transition in
his life
to accepting this beautiful way of life
of islam and he wrote a book
jesus of the bible because he knows the
bible very well he studied
it in greek and latin and he made a
comparison
of jesus of the bible and jesus of the
quran so we're going to be discussing
this book
and then at the end let you be the judge
which jesus do i want to follow
is the true message there in the bible
we have bits and pieces of it but it's
been changed it's been corrupted
and then we have the verbatim word of
god unchanged tamper-free temper
proof it's been preserved and there's a
message about this
mighty messenger in the quran all of
this and more on this week's show
with michael de cerno here on the d-show
this is
peace
you know of course people their families
would always be known by a profession or
labor
yeah so i'm guessing maybe my family was
in the wax business
you you wrote a book you're an author of
a few books yes one of them is jesus in
the bible in the quran yes
how did you get to writing his book what
made you because you spent eight and a
half years in the monastery yes
but now you're muslim yes and you're
writing this book that's right how did
this all
transpire so after i accepted islam
alhamdulillah
i was on fire for the dean you know i
wanted to
when i was a catholic i was very pious
very devout and on fire
and i brought that same fire and even an
even greater one into islam
i wanted to give dawah and the there's a
there's a sheikh
in my and from my masjid near my my my
home where i live
his name's hassan bang and
he was the brother who gave me the dawah
in the beginning
what's his name
so he he gave me the tawa
for accepting islam and he was the one
who knew the bible
very very well alhamdulillah and he
always said to me because he was very
much encouraging me to be active in
dawah
to get my story known to talk about
christianity the bible jesus mary the
saints
all this stuff but then he offered me
he made a suggestion he said why don't
you either do lectures or write books
i said well i would do both but i guess
right now because my islamic knowledge
is very limited
i would rather just write books about
christianity and islam
so i began my my book about
seven months ago eight and eight months
ago honda live is when i
really uh was in the middle of it and it
was printed
and the the whole reason for writing the
book is very simple
when i first was learning about islam i
i as a christian understood jesus as
being two people
there was the jesus i knew and there was
the jesus i saw in the quran
and if you said to me when i was a
catholic
you know is this the same jesus but no
or never you know they believe he's a
prophet they believe he's
you know he's not god they believe he
didn't die on the cross
or rise from the dead you must be crazy
the jesus
that i know is god the son of god
you know dies on the cross takes away
original sin
two different people but when i really
was
receiving the tao and beginning to
really think about things
openly not being biased but with an open
heart
seeking the truth because above being
catholic or anything else i'm a seeker
of truth
and i was seeking the truth now what do
you cover in this book what are some of
the chapters
that what do you mean begins with a
chapter on the trinity
trinity trinity of course i begin with
the shema
israel which of course is the jewish
proclamation
now you've studied in latin and greek
latin and greek but this is hebrew
of course i can't speak the hebrew but
god said moses said inspired by god
the shema hear o israel the lord your
god is one god worship
him alone you shall love the lord thy
god with all thy
soul with all thy strength with all thy
might with all thy and all thy being
this shema see one thing you have to
remember when you think about jesus
because people just think christians
think god
jesus was a jew this is really this is
fascinating he's a jew
he was born a jew he he practiced the
jewish rituals the jewish feast
he believed like a jew what did the jews
believe
israel god is one worship him
why would jesus believe something
different than that
he's a jew the shema
every jew at the time of jesus would
have it written on their doorpost
so every time they walked in they would
recite it and when they would leave they
would recite it
have you ever seen the the jews in
israel that sometimes they have like
these
uh little boxes on their foreheads and
well inside those boxes
actually is the shema heroes of the lord
thy god is one god worship him alone
that's the jesus that's the jewish jesus
now there there is
there is there is no problem here as far
when you say jewish
because we believe he's submitted to the
will of god that's what a muslim is
jewish can we say that's the nationality
exactly god if he's god he had a
nationality
it's another and a birthday that's right
and a birthday even though december 25th
is nowhere close yeah so you can you can
actually be
you can keep your nationality be jewish
but be one a muslim
exactly right so jesus being a jew
believe this
now he confirms this so my first chapter
is on the trinity
when they asked him who are you or no
not who are you they asked him
they said what's the greatest command he
said hero israel the lord thy god is one
god worship him alone
if jesus was god or bringing something
new he should have said heroes or the
lord thy god is me
or the lord thy god is three or the lord
thy god is three in one
what happened that was his chance me
three history
three one one and three whatever he
doesn't say it
that's deep if you think about it the
lord thy god is one
he confirms what moses brought the
prophets brought and he brought and
muhammad peace and blessings
brought the same message and the the the
word in the hebrew and then the arabic
i mean this word one this is not
dividable into
three if you know the the original there
is no plurality within
the oneness of god christians will say
there's a plurality in the godhead but
there's no plurality let's stop right
there no plurality
he had a perfect opportunity to discuss
the trinity he never did
and we're going to be right back to
discuss jesus of the bible and the quran
so you can make an informed decision
when we come back here in adinsha please
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back here on the dean show with michael
de cerno
the channel the cheryl the cheddar the
chattel uh eight and a half years in the
monastery
you studied the latin and the greek yes
now latin and the greek
the that's the new testament what it was
revealed in right well
what we have of not even a copy of an
original yes
the earliest uh fragments as what you
would call them are in greek
the latin the latin uh bibles that you
see the fragments aren't until later
centuries
the greek is the earliest it comes from
from where if it goes from where from
latin to greek no no from greek to latin
from
to greek to latin so the original which
we don't have
no nowhere to be found aramaic that's
right and even the greek
originals that they had are nowhere to
be found
so then you have copies of copies of
copies of nothing original in greek
that's right in greek
and you study the greek and latin and
then and then goes into latin that's
right
and any of the greek or in the latin you
don't have
uh everything is clear here is what the
lord of god is one same thing nothing
about a trinity mentioned nope
how about the point that people make
that jesus is god
man god yes uh fully human fully god at
the same time
what about this point that jesus is god
literally god the second chapter of my
book
is did jesus say i am god and
the clear answer is no but i'm not just
going to leave you with that
the reason i came to the conclusion that
jesus is in god because
the jesus that i knew was who the church
said jesus was
but the jesus himself who's in the bible
does not put these words
in his own mouth people put them in his
mouth
but he himself does not put those words
in his mouth or out of his mouth
so for example jesus
he said the father is greater than all
he said the father
in john's gospel the father is greater
than all in john's gospel he says the
father
is greater than me if jesus is god and
the father is god
and one god is greater than the other
you have like a god who's subordinate
to a higher god it's foolishness
it's foolishness it's like pagan worship
of gods
god's having different degrees of
majesty and and superiority
he said in john's gospel he says
the father is greater than all the
father is greater than me he said of my
in john's gospel of myself i can do
nothing
so what does that mean what does nothing
mean i mean i speak english
it's my mother tongue maybe i'm making a
mistake nothing means nothing
he can do nothing by himself
which means he depends on god now
god one of his attributes is what's
called self-sufficient
self-sufficient means god needs nothing
there's nothing god needs
he needs nothing so for the fact that
jesus says
of myself i can do nothing by myself i
can do nothing
means he depends on on god and if jesus
is in need of something he cannot be god
because he wouldn't be self-sufficient
now one of the favorites of the
christians for
proof of jesus divinity is the father
and i are one john chapter 10 verse 30.
now before you go into those you
actually the last time we met you had a
whole variety of those verses can you
just
name because you said this one you
mentioned i and the father
before abraham was yes well give me give
me some of the those
the ones that just they try to justify
yeah well of course before abraham was i
am that's why this is the most famous of
the famous
yeah the father and i are one yes uh in
the beginning was the word in the word
was
god with god and the word was god john 1
1 john 1 1.
these are your more famous verses but
the fact is is that when you look at
john chapter 10 verse 30
the father and i are one every christian
and i do doubt with christians regularly
and there is
rarely a christian who can give me the
context of that rarely
if you want to read something you don't
just take the verse
you take like five verses before and
five verses after to get a context
to get the text within the greater text
now the actual context of john 10 verse
30
is jesus is talking about being the good
shepherd and
very simply he says quote the father
have the sheep in his hand and he
protects them
and he gives them eternal life and he
shall never lose them he holds them they
will not be lost he protects them
and he says i too have the sheep in my
hand
and i hold them i protect them i'm the
good shepherd the father is the good
shepherd
the father and i are one does that sound
like jesus is saying oh the father and i
are one in substance
or essence no he's saying they're one in
purpose
one in mission just as the father has
the sheep in his hand and holds them
and won't let them go so jesus too has
the sheep in his hand and won't let them
go
for the father and jesus are one in
purpose
and in mission of protecting the sheep
because the fact is is that god sends
prophets
and the prophet is just as responsible
as god
in protecting the people who god sent
the prophet to
before abraham was i am yes before
abraham was i am this is another big one
now christians love the i am statements
of course
when jesus says before abraham was i am
okay
well my response is in what way of
course they say
as god cr you know as as a divine being
they don't believe he's jesus with a
body
before creation he believed these jesus
was divine and union with the father son
and holy spirit before creation
but the fact is is before abraham was i
am
jesus doesn't say he was there with god
before as god
before he had a body what he says is
before abraham was i am
now in the we're all
we all existed before the creation of
everything we all existed but how did we
exist like this
no we existed in the knowledge of god
god in his knowledge
you were there i was there hitler was
there
muhammad was there jesus was there and
abraham was there
we all were before abraham in the
knowledge of god
but the christians they try to justify
jesus being god because they say that's
god's name
that god's name is i am
and they they thrive on these i am
statements like for example jesus saying
i
am the way i am the truth i am the life
this is one of the
most famous quotes that you'll hear from
christians but the fact is is this
and maybe i'm wrong but i i'm very
confident in the statement i'm about to
make
when jesus says i am the way the truth
and the life
isn't every prophet that sent the way to
god for his people
that's the truth you can't be wrong
there because that's right every prophet
was the
way every prophet isn't every prophet
the way to
eternal life to life of course
and isn't every prophet bring
truth revelation yes so when you take
all of the clear verses like
um there's why do you call me good no
one's good but god
uh the father is greater than i that
he's subordinate to god
that he's praying to god that you know
all of these clear verses then you have
these that are like ambiguous because if
you opened up you know the bible and you
took it just to layman it said what do
you think this is uh he says
before abraham was i am does that prove
jesus god you have to somehow connect it
back to something of the old testament
and it's confusing uh before we go so
uh the question is are there cl there's
clear verses
here is with the lord that god is one
you mentioned and are these verses that
people use are they more ambiguous oh
ambiguous
there's nothing clear about i mean let's
think about the second a man says
before abraham was i am did you hear i
am god no
no no it's not so these are these are
things that you can interpret
construe why are you doing this before
we go to break do you hate christians do
you hate oh no no no not at all
antichrist
actually one of the first questions i
was asked when i became a muslim by a
fellow
ex by a fellow uh catholic religious
that i lived with
he said you know you know what we got to
go to breakfast we're going to start the
section yes
you know uh do you hate uh jesus do you
hate christians and you were asked
something similar to this when we come
back don't go anywhere
on the dean's show with michael the
cheryl
there we go we're right back now please
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back here on the dean show so that's the
question
are you someone who hates jesus no
what's this guy this guy that uh
in your church yes well he said to me
his first his first
question he asked me was do you miss
jesus yet
i said no why would i miss jesus
i still love jesus just god honest truth
i
actually have an even greater love for
jesus as a muslim than i ever did as a
christian
and many christians don't understand
that but if you become a muslim
inshallah you understand it god willing
you understand that
you have to experience it to know what i
mean it's not just something i can say
and you're going to be like oh yeah i
know what he means you have to accept
this deen
to really understand how you could love
jesus more yeah
and if you say you don't love jesus this
is a one-way ticket to that we are we
are the only
non-christian religion that makes it an
article of belief of faith
to believe that jesus was sent that he
is a prophet that he is the messiah he
is the word of god he's the spirit of
god
we're the only ones so christians need
to thank us
for all the the billions of people that
we bring to loving jesus
that's because we don't teach our people
to hate jesus we teach them to love
jesus you've got to love jesus to be a
muslim you have to
now what about the christian they think
oh you hate us now and i always tell
christians you know it's out of the love
that we're sharing this message what do
you have to say well it's
in my honest opinion it's just fraternal
correction
what i do is not attack a christian
i've had a christian say to me it seems
like you're attacking
i'm not attacking i'm not what i'm doing
is
giving my story what i found to be
errors
where i found contradictions and in
finding those errors in contradictions
i'm bringing them to light but see the
the difference between people
most people is this you have problem
finders and problem solvers
it's easy to find a problem it's hard to
find people who want to find solutions
to the problems
so i bring to light the contradictions
and the errors that i
found but at the same time
i don't just leave you there i offer you
something different an alternative
an alternative and a beautiful one i
mean you have a lot of people are coming
out they're not necessarily
muslim you have a a united
methodist minister uh richard uh
hagerston who who came out and he wrote
an article he's a christian eight things
that your pastor will never tell you
about the
bible and these are things that you
mentioned now as a muslim but this is a
this is a scholar who went to seminary
and he mentions a lot of these facts
about the bible being
changed not having the originals about
jesus
not being god some of these books being
forgeries
and these are things that um you know
the the
the crucifixion where the different
accounts if this is a great
um event that happened you have one
gospel speaking about him being galloway
the other one
speaking him being somewhere in another
location during this
uh do you also talk about this in your
book oh yes i talk about the crucifixion
i talk about jesus being god the trinity
the son of god uh the history of the
bible i talk about muhammad in the bible
i talk about the injil i talk about how
the quran refutes the trinity
how it refutes jesus being god because
the way i write the book is
i state what the christian belief is and
where the errors are and i show how the
quran corrects it
and allah that's i'm happy i did it how
did so it it shows the errors
yeah and and this is what this um
methodist uh
pastor preacher he also this christian
and many others uh
who come who are coming out because uh
these people they go he mentions in his
article how he went to seminary school
and then
they clearly state in the seminary
school that many of these books are
forgeries that they don't know
that's right is this a fact now yes of
course well when you come to the bible
it's a a very detailed i mean you could
talk for days on this topic but
when you talk about the history of the
bible
the gospels today are called matthew
mark luke and john
they're called canonical scripture by
the church
but before they were called canonical
scripture before they were called
gospels and they were part of a canon
the earliest church fathers called them
the memoirs of the apostles
that's not scripture it's memoirs they
didn't say it was scripture
they didn't say it was inspired they
didn't say the holy spirit inspired
these books
it was memoirs of the apostles their
their memories of who jesus was
that's what it was what about now before
we get into we're almost out of time
jesus many people now they say okay he's
not god but he's the
literal son of god yes what about that
well when we when you look at jesus
being the son of god in the words of
ahmed
gods have sons by the tongues in this
book
i go from the old testament to the new
testament and i quote
every single time that god references
people as being his sons
and i put it in there i write it every
from the beginning to the end the whole
bible
from beginning to end god had so many
sons israel was his son ephraim was his
son
jesus was his son adam was his son every
paul was this
paul says everybody can become the sons
of god
who are born by baptism and redeemed by
the blood of christ everybody can become
sons of god
so i'm a son you're a son jesus is the
son but the fact is is this is when you
talk about sun
and this is important to remember
there's a difference between saying the
word son to a jew
and to a greek jews believed in one god
if they heard the word son
and it is in their bible they would have
thought metaphorical
a greek or a roman who were pagans and
believe gods came down
and god had sons literal sons when paul
goes to the greeks
and he says he says jesus is the son of
god let's say
the greek would have taken that
literally jesus literally was born of
god
as a son through through through through
the conjugal act
of intercourse so
for so so so paul you know he
he brings this message to the greeks and
see this is this is the thing
and one thing you get from christians is
this
they say if the bible is distorted show
me where
and see this is one thing we have to
remember as muslims too
when we say in jail we're not talking
about a book
jesus carried under his arm we're
talking about the actual revelation that
came off the tongue
of that man's mouth that was distorted
but the actual bible itself where was
this distorted
my own personal opinion because a lot of
muslims will say the council of nicaea
when they were forming the canons and
yes there is truth to the statement but
it had to come before because you have
people calling jesus god in the year 107
a d
there's letters of many men saying jesus
is god
so you can't say the council of nicaea
because that's later
and they're already calling him god so
where was this my own personal theory
and it's
not something i got from somebody this
is my own research
my own personal theory on this in the
acts of the apostles
paul and barnabas go to the greeks
paul performs a miracle one miracle
when he performs this miracle the greeks
put him on their shoulder
and barnabas on their other shoulders
and they all start celebrating
they're all celebrating and they said
truly quote truly the gods have come
down to us in human form
and they called they called paul zeus
and barnabas hermes
now they take them to the temple to
sacrifice
to the gods now here's my question
if if paul did one miracle just one
and they took paul and barnabas as gods
because of one miracle
imagine imagine what they're doing with
jesus virgin birth
no father just a mother all those
miracles
raising people from the dead they would
have thought he was super god yeah
i see the point you're making so this is
where i believe the distortion comes in
the greeks because you see in the early
church you had the hebrew the hebrew
theology and the hebrew thought and the
greek theology and the greek thought
and in the beginning they were one but
then they went separate ways
and when they went separate ways the
greek and paul's school of
pauline theology actually won out and
because of that you have the theology
today is based upon the
the greek theologians and the greek
philosophers we've got 30 seconds left
what is your belief
about jesus now well 30 seconds the
jesus that i believe today is the exact
same jesus who i always believed in
and even greater he is jesus who was
born of a virgin mary he is jesus who
was
conceived without a father he is jesus
who is not god but a prophet sent by god
a mighty prophet sent by god
confirming the book before him jesus
said in the bible he said
i come not he said i come not to
destroy the law but to fulfill it and
confirm it
that is exactly what we believe about
jesus he came he brought the injil he
brought the gospel and he confirmed the
books of old he said while i'm with you
not
one iota not one word shall be taken
away from the law
so why don't the christians and the jews
still follow the law
so the jesus we believe in is the jesus
who confirmed the law
the jesus who who we love is the one
born of the virgin mary born of the
spirit he is the word of god because god
said be
and he became he is the spirit of allah
and we as muslims we can't be muslims i
could go to the masjid to the mosque to
become a muslim
and if that imam says to me do you
believe in jesus and i say no but i
believe in everything else he won't let
me become a muslim
that's how much we admire and love jesus
and that same jesus
is the jesus that you discover who
didn't preach trinity
didn't preach divinity didn't preach
sonship didn't preach original sin
and who instead of his father saying son
you know what i love the criminals more
than you
and so let me kill you for them god
loved him so much that he preserved him
and ascended him into heaven
because of the glory of god and his
mercy that's mercy save them from
humiliation that's right
from the humiliation thank you very much
for being with us peace be with you
assalamu alaikum we hope to have you
back again some time again on the
show god willing thank you and i think
like
over 1.7 billion people in the world
they believe
and love jesus and as you've gotten to
hear from a former
christian himself who spent eight and a
half years in the monastery
and studying the greek and the latin
then he really
started to look at the evidence after he
met a muslim and he saw that
the things that he was being told just
didn't add up the evidence wasn't there
and he didn't just want to blindly
follow what the church was telling him
so he investigated these things
and he saw that there was no explicit
ambiguous
clear unambiguous statement where jesus
peace be upon him ever said that he was
the creator that he was god or he ever
called people to worship him no
and the bible as he states in his book
has sons by the tongues
so jesus as is stated in the quran is a
mighty messenger
that came to call the people to worship
the creator not the creation and i think
your heart has an inclination to that
because that just makes sense the
creator is the creator
jesus and everything else is his
creation so we pray to who jesus prayed
to
and you can start with this lord's
prayer if you say hallow be thy name
this is talking about the lord the
master of creation
thy kingdom come thy will be done that's
islam
thy will your will oh god i want to do
your will
that's islam to learn more call
1-800-662-islam
pick up the quran and see all the
beautiful teachings that are in the
quran
of good character of charity of
the pure message of monotheism all of
these things and more that really will
enlighten you
but ignorance is a killer itself so if
you choose to stay ignorant
all of these doors of goodness won't
open up to you so
hook up with us follow us on facebook
twitter and stay in touch
and we'll see you next time god willing
until then peace be with you please
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you