from doo-dah he revealed I mean Eric
money Raheem Malachy our media what had
you going to wanting to be a Jesuit
priests infection wash GOG Muslim [\h__\h]
absolute Tyranny on their aggressive
non-sexual izzati Oh
although the irony is that Islam has
been in Poland for centuries and I
didn't really know about this until
after I converted how long did we're
into the training did you start getting
the cauliflower I got I'm pretty early
uh that's how I knew I was empty is
because I was trying to fill that
emptiness with things I could never fill
it you know alcohol mostly overeating
very common right Salaam alaikum greens
the peace we got a special guest with
you an exciting story we got our brother
Christine trans in ski and now you go by
Mustafa
stepha you are Groot you you were born
in Poland um burn fallen and fled to
Austria Austria at age 2 at age 2 and
then grew up in Chicago all right
Chicago my hometown yeah I'm back here
in my hometown and then you you were
gonna be a was it a Jesuit priest
correct yeah I was studying to be a
priest for over four years
uh-huh and what happened with that well
actually with that I realized I wanted
to be a father someday huh you know that
I would regret if I never had kids
yeah and you can't have kids when you're
a priest right exactly
yeah Catholic Church is a priest I can
have kids uh-huh so I had to make that
decision decided there was some way you
know I couldn't go without yeah I had
experience now you trained jujitsu I do
we got we're gonna have some fun yeah
yeah I'm the aunt but now you live
currently in the Bay Area I do in yeah
in the East Bay
Oakland Jack shamash WWE movie Fusco
Mala Mala
there's similarities now between Bosnia
and Poland huh yeah have you been back
to Poland yes why did you why did you
and your parents leave Poland at and
flee to our
Austria so at the time was the very
early eighties the situation was very
bad politically economically my parents
just wanted to raise me in a better
environment mm-hmm and so they were
lucky enough they were able to leave it
was a month before Marshall I was
declared so if they had waited just one
month longer the borders have been
totally shut and my life would be
probably totally different how long did
that last for it it was martial law in
Poland right after we left yes and and
was that was that communism was ruling
at that time right yeah I was 82 when we
left
81 80 82 and how long was communism
there in the institution and 89 how long
and when did its start
did April where to look right ok similar
same thing so is the same thing as the
neighboring states in Albania and Bosnia
pretty much the same thing right yeah
after all or two and then so how was
that they implemented martial law how
long was that again for that was that
one I'm not sure exactly by that by that
time we were in Austria yeah and my
parents were pretty much it was a
politte police state then right yeah
long lines for everything tanks on the
street well what kicked that off that
they had to go towards martial law then
so I guess the Solidarity movement was
really getting big yeah you know people
demanding more freedom and from what I
understand the history that I've learned
basically Soviet Union clamped down on
the Polish government said you know you
better get a handle on this and do
something or else yeah so they didn't
want Soviet tanks rolling in so they
declared martial law and outlawed the
Solidarity movement which then of course
came back in 88 89 and won the elections
yeah we had a freedom I'm always amazed
I mean when you look at these areas like
Poland Russia former Yugoslavia where
you had communism there and they were
trying to suppress God out of people's
lives to get rid of it but look what
happened I just failed because it's
innately built in all of us exactly you
you just can't keep it tamp down forever
uh-huh
and if anything actually it was a
rallying point and it kind of rallied
people to the faith more
it did didn't it yeah it was uh and that
was a big part of I think polish
identity in that time was the church and
the faith and kind of giving people hope
for the future yeah you you also studied
psychology got your master's degree in
psychology I mean in psychology yeah at
Saybrook out on the west coast yeah I
mean so at what point were you doing you
were were you exploring now because for
you to go from well let lets back it up
what had you going to wanting to be a
Jesuit priest and for people they don't
know understand what does that actually
mean what tide what is that becoming a
just Jesuit priest
so the Jesuits are one of the one of
many different religious orders in the
Catholic Church and I've always had like
a real calling to go to God and you know
to the world beyond this one yeah and
yeah you know ever since the little kid
I've just always been attracted to that
idea and so after college when I
finished my undergrad I I joined the
order and for about four years
you know I studied you know theology
philosophy first two years in the
novitiate is a combination different
experiences a lot of travel we were in
Peru studying Spanish and meeting people
down there and so the Jesuit Order one
thing that they're known for is the idea
of finding God in all things so instead
of being cloistered like some monks they
prefer to be out in the world and who
you know look for God's signs and you
know the broader world science arts are
the Polish people just religious
generally down there are they how is the
situation they are they are more like
eff still communists are they more kind
of left as behind are they turning more
towards religion yeah I'd say since
communism fell it's kind of gone
you know totally the other direction now
and it's you know very capitalist mm-hm
there's just a big emphasis now like you
know just like in most Western nations
you know I'm making money and of course
there's still a lot of people are very
religious and it's still a big part of
the culture but I feel like more and
more there's kind of drifting away from
that yeah and if anything the big
problem now is not so much communism but
its materialism mm-hm and just being
totally focused on is it doing yeah yeah
so that same thing everywhere yeah yeah
but I was seeing I was seeing some
videos some short clips where they were
having some big huge gatherings of some
are they Catholics or Christians down
there mainly Catholics all Catholics and
some big protest if I can give advice to
young people the in Poland it's not
gonna be better I'm sorry it's not
backwards not forwards people don't know
about and people who seem like they were
turning back towards the church and and
religion yeah so there's actually an
election today the presidential election
and it kind of pits like the two main
camps are kind of on the one side the
more traditionalists who really wanted
to cling to like Polish Catholic kinda
indeed yeah
Taguchi Muslim [\h__\h] absolutely crony oh
man
aggressive non-sexual is a Geo Chiaki
adoptive on iam says party at local and
and then on other side people who
probably see themselves more as part of
a more secular lies you know like the
rest of the European Union
so it's definitely those are like the
two main kind of sides right now we're
trying to fighting it out yeah I met I
was in Sarajevo and you just told me
your mother was born in Sarajevo
my mother's mother your grandmother was
born inside animals was born there
that's very interesting
tell us about that I don't really know
how they ended up down there
they were polish and they ended up
coming back after World War two that
came back to Poland but she was born
down there and her and her family lived
down there for a little bit and you know
we always joke around that's why my
mom's food is a little bit more spicy
than typical Polish food yeah we picked
up some of the cuisine from down there
but yeah you know obviously when I hear
Bosnian I recognize some words here and
there cuz it's so similar to Polish yeah
most labs uh-huh
the incident when I was there I was
coming out of the main mustard and it's
called big ova jahmiya and I met a
Polish man he was down there he
recognized me and we started talking and
he had an interesting story but he
really couldn't share it he couldn't
come out because he was he was scared
that he can get some flak from his
community there in in Poland and he was
saying there's a lot of pressure on
Muslim there's a small minority of
Muslims but there there's a lot of heat
on them they they're discriminated
against and this is true from what
you've heard her yeah I mean if I
haven't really extreme
personally there mm-hmm but I know there
are lots of stories of you know just
some phobia
yes stemming from again usually the same
group that really wants to go back to
sort of the traditional identity yeah
they're also generally tend to be more
xenophobic they're very suspicious of
anything different although the irony is
that is Lama has been in Poland for
centuries and I didn't really know about
this until after I converted yeah but I
learned that the Tatars they're polish
community mostly in the east near
Belarus and Lithuania they've been in
Poland for what now over six hundred
years now the Tatars at a time in Poland
at dirt hauling and you know they have
they're completely polish they speak
polish just like anyone else their
family has been there for hundreds of
years they fought for Poland in every
war since then it's actually why they
were settled they were invited by the
King to settle in Poland because of
their cavalry skills yeah and they were
allowed to practice Islam you know for a
while they're actually the only Muslims
in Europe that had noble titles mm-hmm
so I think a lot of the people on the
far right in Poland they're not even
aware of their own history and you know
either they don't know or they don't
want to know mm-hmm but it's LOM has
actually long history in Poland as in
most of the world so Islam has been in
Poland for over 600 years then correct
and the Tatars they're there until this
day yes yeah there are native polish
their native polish muslims they're
there they've been in
in Poland since I mean that's 1300 Wow
and when did you find this out I just
started digging more into history like I
said ephra converted and I was trying to
learn about Islam in my home country in
Poland yeah and I learned about the
historical mustards up in the north east
of the country of there by Belarus and
that's how I learned about the Tatars
and their history and that's something
you know I'd love to take like a mini
pilgrimage to someday inshallah to see
those historical mosques so most most
Polish people they don't know about this
I don't know you just I don't remember
ever really hearing about it I went to
polish school on Saturdays here in
Chicago I consider myself pretty
knowledgeable about Polish history and
it's just something that either I it was
mentioned and I never really paid
attention to or but it's nothing not
emphasized but I think would be helpful
in this new climate mm-hmm for more
people to know about you know the
history of other other religions Poland
yeah because we know that Jews have been
in Poland for many years right but
actually Poland is you know back in the
Middle Ages was on the most tolerant
diverse countries in Europe yeah and
they were a haven for people who were
persecuted elsewhere we had Jews
Protestants Orthodox you know we had
people of all religions in our country
and so this idea that you have to be
Roman Catholic to be polish is actually
pretty new idea historically mm-hmm
these people who are turning back more
towards religion and whatnot and the
values that they are calling to family
morality etc I mean how do you think
they would react if they got to see some
of the teachings the basic teachings of
Islam exactly a lot of it is just
they've been exposed to only propaganda
and they don't personally know any
Muslims all they know is what they hear
on TV about you know terrorism and all
the usual stuff and I I think I'm pretty
sure if they knew what Islam was really
about they would see it as a natural
ally and what they're trying to do you
know which is to go back to you know
family values
and focus on God in faith I think many
of them you know they don't realize the
the importance that you know Jesus and
Mary peace be upon them having a son
so that's something I personally would
also be very interested in doing some
day inshaallah is to be sort of like
some kind of a bridge and to help
educate people and you know tell them
about you know what islam is really
about and how catholics can find natural
ally with muslims and you know how we
should be working together yeah
absolutely
and even if people I mean because many
do they look into Islam like you did and
Islam is simply an Arabic word Semitic
from a Semitic language Jesus spoke
Aramaic sister language to Arabic he
would say ilaha you say Allah I mean
it's how do you say God in in Polish
book book well they say book bug and
Bosnian Sam poke yeah how do you say
Jesus yes yes Jesus right I often tell
people look if you take the J off of j
esus what do you have you take off the J
you have ISA ISA and that's a we call
Jesus ISA because there was no such
thing as Jesus when he was around right
the English language didn't exist I
think you know if people actually wrote
read the Quran you know and they'd
recognize all the same stories there
that they have you know in the ocean
Bible and you know that was actually one
one of the main reasons why when I try
straight away from my Catholic faith for
a while and then and then I was looking
to kind of reconnect with God so to
speak and one of the main reasons why I
chose Islam was actually because of the
role of the Prophet ISA like you saw
them and you know growing up he was like
you know as Catholic you know you're
supposed to believe he's God no I got to
the point where I realized no human can
be God but still there was like this
familiarity with ISA teachings
and I didn't want to just throw that out
completely and lo and behold their
dollars in the Quran in actually the
version you know in the way it's
supposed to be with Jesus s prophet how
many that do you have the same thing
happening like in other parts of Europe
where people for instance in the former
Yugoslavia Bosnia where someone they'll
identified their religion with their
culture so it doesn't matter sometimes
even if the truth is coming to them it's
because for instance I am Italian I'm
Catholic
and they're intertwined I can't be
nothing else if I'm Serbian I have to be
Orthodox Christian I can't switch that
for instance if you're Bosnian sometimes
Bosnians are Muslim but in Andy's
different era Poland people if you're
polish I'm Catholic so I go back in but
hold on people do they go above and
beyond to see is this actually the truth
is there evidence behind what you're
living and then that's why you see a lot
of people they'll go out like you did
they go outside of what they were taught
growing up and they'll see the evidence
points towards Islam submission to the
Creator not the creation this is what
Islam simply means in the Quran if I
like you did evaluate it there's proof
upon proof that this is from the crater
you you wouldn't have followed it if it
wasn't that so if you didn't reduce that
from your homework and your intellectual
I mean you've you've done everything
that needs you got your scruples on
you're not some fanatic radical you're
using your brain you're searching for
God and you found it in this beautiful
way of life exactly that's one of the
you know one of the best things about
Islam is you don't have to turn your
brain off yeah you know people some
people have the stereotype for that you
know you're not allowed to think and you
just you know follow everything like a
zombie and it's like no actually reason
and faith blend together dutifully and
you know you're allowed to ask questions
and think for yourself now it's like you
said in a lot of cultures it's very
difficult because culture and religion
can be sewn or twined that once you
start questioning any one part of it
then all of a sudden you know some
people consider you a traitor to all of
it yeah is the same thing in Poland like
that similar
some people yeah you know not everywhere
not everyone uh-huh but for sure you
know there are some who think that you
know if you sure not Catholic you can't
really be really polish yeah but you
know obviously I reject that thinking
uh-huh so now that you have the Tatars
there and there's deep roots of Islam in
Poland how is the situation for are they
in a particular area the Tatars
they're called they're poor they're uh
what is that I mean I'm not sure where
their name comes from
I know originally they came from further
east in Russia so I think they're like a
descendants of Mongols somehow uh-huh
and then became a long long time ago and
then kept migrating West and then the
ones that said oh they're in
northeastern Poland northeastern post
yeah are there to this day are they
being discriminated is there how are
they being received now I don't think
they are because in the areas where they
live you know they've been forever
people know them and it's not a threat
yeah I think it's in the rest of Poland
where there's not a very big tangible
Muslim presence yeah that people get all
their information from you know
propaganda and the media the hate
machine yeah yeah and you know they
don't personally know any they don't
kind of look at objective sources
themselves and so they get these ideas
and yeah so you have this strain of
Islamophobia but it's just based on
ignorance yeah and people are looking at
you right now this is your your polish
right but you're Muslim you're a Muslim
Polish man and again it's not something
because that just kicks out the
stereotype of a Muslim if you're Muslim
you got to be an Arab all right you got
to be somebody who's from the Middle
East know you're from Europe yeah and
you're Muslim yeah as simple as that
all over there all over the world of all
shapes inside yeah it was beautiful the
diversity right yeah and I and I'm sure
like if more people in it and this is
why they I remember one Scott
told me if they would just give if they
give us a shot just let people just hear
this message that's why it's so
important for people to just for
themselves not from the hate machine
propaganda machine but just from us to
like one of the Sahaba
when he went to Medina yet about that
time Edina and then he was giving Dawa
he was sharing Islam and then one of the
chief came from other tribe and he was
really angry and a little hostile and he
said hold on just hear me out
just listen to what I have to say if you
like you can take if you don't you can
leave it and he sat he listened opened
his mind and he took the information in
and then he actually yeah you know about
this incident right that's amazing you
know so but people it's like these walls
have been put up and now people don't
want even one and all of the junk has
been thrown thrown on the treasure of
Islam and all this negative propaganda
and this fear and missus I so so many
misconceptions that you got to just dig
like remove so many layers of layers but
I think I mean if a person is sensible
if they're open-minded I mean like you
were they're gonna see and at the end
you'll have someone who goes from being
a foe to a friend who goes from being
Abu jahil to Abu Talib right yeah I love
the stories of remember his name there
was some Dutch filmmaker who set out to
make a propaganda film against Islam and
then he started doing actual research
and then once he started digging and
digging deeper
he ended up converting uh-huh and you
know cuz he realized that everything you
know from the hate machine as you call
it you know you know it's all totally
one-sided and you know if I think if
people would actually take the time to
go to a Masjid and personally spend some
time there was real Muslims talk to them
eat with them just you know see what
it's all about then you know maybe they
may not convert themselves but I can't
see how he can come out of an experience
like that and still you know believe in
hate machine because that's a good make
the human connection I always I always
often repeat the story of a
Arizona where they had these guys with
guns outside of the mosque and the one
guy the leader of the cult he had like a
F Islam t-shirt but he went in the
Masjid the mosque he sat he had some tea
he sat made the connection he was a
little bit hostile in the beginning but
he asked his questions and he came out
they got him on the news media and he
totally different scenario after he came
out he said man I'll never speak bad
about these people again all right yeah
she's got to get to know people the
first thing yeah that's deep tilt tell
us okay so you go from being a priest
from almost being a priest to now
looking into Islam how far after you
left this pursuit did you get have your
first exposure to Islam so actually
while I was studying to be a priest I
was also kind of I was very interested
in other you know religions and other
spiritual paths I always loved kind of
seeing the similarities and all them
yeah I always kind of felt like people
with true religious calling and true
spirituality you know there was there'll
be more that unites them than divides
yeah you know deep down and so you know
I've studied you know Buddhism Hinduism
and Islam and I've always had like this
kind of respect for Salaam and for
Muslims growing up you know I had Muslim
friends in school and you know they knew
I was strong Catholic and you know them
as Muslims I always kind of felt like
hey we're on the same team but it never
really really occurred to me to to
become Muslim until it was late 2015 I
reconnected with a high school friend of
mine a Muslim friend
yes and just started at that point
that's when I was really searching and
kind of trying to reconnect with God
somehow I was kind of strayed from
religion general
for a few years at that point and I
really felt that emptiness like like I
felt that you know I I needed God back
in my life one or another but I also
knew that I couldn't go back to being
Catholic because I just I didn't believe
that you know how can I stand in church
and say you know I believe in this and
that when it's all a lie I couldn't do
what didn't you believe exactly I mean
just the main point most of you were
just about Trinity Trinity and Jesus
being God so that's why if say if people
tell me what's like the one thing that
rogered in Sam I say it's how he'd the
pure monotheism just God is God one God
no buts after that right and you know
there's nothing you know
no the creation can never be equal the
Creator that's deep yeah and so you know
but that's a pretty central tenet of
Christian faith so I knew I couldn't
really be Christian anymore so but then
I reconnect with his friend and start
talking about Islam before my studies of
Islam or more kind of academic so I had
this respect was always very kind of
like dry and like detached mm-hmm
and now it started being more kind of
from from the heart and seeing like more
sort of the the emotional and inner side
of a sum and I just it just felt right
at you know I don't know there wasn't
like one exact flasher moment when I
knew that it just kind of slowly was
dawning on me that wow I think this is
everything I've been looking for and I
still get to keep Issa you're still good
to keep Jesus peace be upon him yes yeah
we would you describe yourself as
sincere not like some people you can be
a professor in university but you're not
you're disingenuous you're not really so
you have a bunch of information but now
you can have a little bit of information
like tawheed the pure monotheism and it
just clicks were you were you sincerely
humbly like searching for God for the
truth
yeah is that anymore as I can
in turn journey and inner circle again
I'm not I studied some theology as
judgment but I mean you know I'm not any
sort of theologian I'm not an expert on
any religion but I've always kind of
just what I've always wanted to have
this interconnection with our Creator
yeah it's always been really important
to me just sort of this intuitive and
trust to you know God's been good to me
my whole life
in various situations just always taking
care of me one way or another and so
with the Tao he'd then and then finding
you know Jesus peace be upon him like in
its proper role in the religion then the
other thing I discovered I really loved
was all the rituals in the practice
especially sujood the prostration yes
the act of bowing in prayer so powerful
and did you see that in any church that
you visited anywhere in the world only
in priestly ordination
the interesting thing is when a Catholic
priests when they become priests and
their ordination Mass there's this time
where they actually prostrate and lie
down on the ground flat and prostate
prostrate and it's actually one of the
most moving beautiful moments so the
whole ceremony but but no like you know
as a Catholic we wouldn't like bow or
prostrate about the waist maybe but not
actually place your forehead to the
ground
I just how jesus prayed it does it's and
he went a little further and he face in
the Bible right there in the Gospel of
Matthew I believe 26 39 and he went a
little further and he fell meaning Jesus
on his face and prayed to God so whose
God if he's God who's he praying to God
is praying to God doesn't make sense
like you were saying yeah yeah right so
he's praying to the creator and he's
asking for his will to be done and
that's Islam and that's interesting
that's in the Lord's Prayer and usually
when we tell people look look at the
Lord's Prayer or our Father
Oh Lord or God in heaven
hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come
thy will be done
this is islam to submit your will to the
will of god almighty that's a slum yeah
one see these connections you know and
right and you know and then other little
things I realized oh wait well Jesus
didn't eat pork either yeah you know
there's all these various things I
realize like honestly if the historical
Jesus peace be upon him if he just like
came to earth today
who'd he feel most comfortable with well
you know I'm just used a Jew so maybe
with the Jewish people but if there are
no Jews around let's say hypothetically
who do you feel most comfortable around
I would say it'd definitely be Muslims
mm-hmm
you know that's very good to feel at
home and be a master yeah and he'd
probably because you see that he
wouldn't because they actually rejected
him right so that relationship wouldn't
go so well yeah so then he would go to
people who he actually called them to
worship the creator and he'd be like why
you worshiping me I never told you to
call on me as God or a literal son of
God so what but then he'll see the
Muslims praying like him implementing
the law like him and spirit also in love
and all these other things that he
called people to do and he would be
kicking they're with us for sure yeah I
mean I can only imagine his reaction
coming in a church and seeing you know
this body hanging people praying to it I
just can't imagine statues of him right
yeah yes first of all who really knows
what he looks like right exactly
one of the main problems of images in
general so that was another thing that I
love about Islam is just like the
aesthetic simplicity you know no no no
statues images cuz none of them can be
accurate right yeah so the only thing
you know that we can rely on is the Word
of God could on descriptions but yeah I
think Jesus coming back today would
definitely be hanging out with us and so
again that's I really felt at home once
all this started clicking and I realized
that
yeah I love telling Christians I love
telling them that look we as Muslims we
love Jesus I love Jesus I love Jesus
right you love him very much not as a
god or little something up but as a
mighty Messenger of God just like we
love Abraham Moses and the last final
message a problem Hamid peace imposed
upon them they all came the same message
that message that your heart gravitated
to you were enamored with the pure
monotheism to tawheed you said your
heart it was or you were where your
words like that you were and you felt
empty what what what I feel like the
emptiness the emptiness if someone had
to touch it feel they're out there
because a lot of people are empty all
right
they might be tuning in and the only
thing that gives them some sort of good
feeling is the fun they go to maybe at
the nightclub they're hitting the bottle
the clubs you know that means that
that's how I knew I was empty because I
was trying to fill that emptiness with
things I could never fill it you know
alcohol mostly overeating very common
right I would just like a weekend all I
wanted was like have some drinks and
just eat a whole bunch of junk food and
pizza mhm and you know then for that
night at least I could maybe not think
about that emptiness yeah but you know
it's it's a fool's errand it never works
in the long run because emptiness still
there and now the difference if you were
gonna do it before there's the before
the after how does the heart feel now I
just feel the main difference I would
say is that I just pretty much
throughout the day every day I know that
you know I'm doing what I was created
for which is you know to worship the
Creator you know to do my best i can
raising my kids live healthfully you
know and that's another way to honor the
creator is to take care of what he has
given us you know our bodies
you know the planet I just feel like I'm
living a wholesome happy life and I
don't really need anything when it comes
to like you know all this material stuff
you know of course we all need food and
clothes in the basics but you know I
don't really care if I have the latest
newest gadget out there or you know the
latest fashion of clothes or this or
that I just feel very at peace and
content you know just knowing that you
know I'm connected to God and that's
really all we need how did you feel the
first time you stepped into a mustard a
house of worship a mosque and you saw
the diversity like we were talking about
Jesus and if you go into the Spanish
Church you have hey-zeus he looks like
either it's Mexican he'll have a Mexican
if you take them here Puerto Rican if
you take them into African American
Church to have them look African
American if you take them into the
standard Western churches he's blonde
hair blue eyes right and then you going
sweet is Jesus Jesus but the point is
like you go to this church polish church
Italian Church african-american church
there's really not much diversity in
these place unless it's forced a lot of
times and university university settings
and whatnot but now when you go into a
mosque when you go into a mush did when
you see black white Spanish Somalian
Indian you see all sorts of was that how
did how did you feel the first time you
stepped into a mosque I'm not [\h__\h]
when was that
first time first time ever I guess was
in Oakland was that when you took your
Shahada right yeah yeah the Oakland
Islamic Center uh-huh and yeah like you
said you you know you see people from
all over the world and personally I love
that because growing especially growing
up here in the u.s. you know all my life
going to schools I had friends from you
know all over the world
and I think it's one of the best you
know biggest strengths of this country
is the diversity yeah
and to see that reflected in in my place
worship then you know was very
comforting I felt like I belonged
because I felt like no one actually
really cared if you were from here
they're like you know they respect where
you're from they find interesting but no
one's really a minority you know
everyone belongs yeah and then I kind of
adopted as my home mustard soon after
that a lighthouse mosque also in Oakland
and the same thing you know you see
brothers there from from all over you
know white black Hispanic you know
everyone gets along beautifully yeah and
that's interesting going back to Jesus
like making him into a human being
giving him a nationality a color a skin
tone a zip code didn't have zip codes at
that day but just putting him in
creation limited him it like that it's
LOM says no no that God is not inside
his creation he's out he controls crazy
has created creation but he's not part
of the creation he's not a man or a
woman he doesn't have these deficiencies
that human beings doing we limit God
like that but when you just like how
when you bring up some of these rational
arguments you know to the human being if
they're not being disingenuous if
they're like you like really sincere and
they're humble and they're searching
I mean God Almighty Allah will guide
them and if they do what what you talked
about we talked about you seeing the
sedge done right now to the person after
this they made such as up meaning they
prostrate it humbled himself and just
said God guide me the crater guided me
you don't have to say a law you say the
one who created me guiding me and that's
just a great place to start
yeah yeah that the whole act of humbling
humble yourself man becomes arrogant
right and exactly humbling yourself
before God and but not for any man just
before God not before any men yeah
Malcolm X talked about this was like the
hardest thing like you know
the most powerful thing and the hardest
thing for a person like when he just
made that such done right because
there's no going back
it's like if you really because you got
to take the the highest point of man and
bring it down to the lowest point of the
ground
humble yourself yeah yeah from top to
bottom people don't want to do that yeah
especially in our culture right you're
supposed to always be you know on top
and number one and the best and you know
but you know we didn't create ourselves
so and I I believe without a shadow of a
doubt that because you see the climate
the current climate that were going
through with all the the racial divides
and the racism and and all this that
Islam is like Malcolm X said is the only
solution to that racism what do you
think about that
I remember that quote I saw it soon
after I converted and I would say I
agreed with it just from my own personal
experience again at the mustards and
just seeing tree quality and Brotherhood
and I'd say you could probably find some
of that maybe in some other churches too
but yeah at the Masjid you know again it
just just doesn't matter people you know
the respect where you're from you know
in your experiences but in the end you
know we're all equal we're all created
before God yeah so we're on that same
level under God huh because I was
talking to a brother yesterday and he
brought us from good points because
people are trying to deal with this but
in the wrong way this is a spiritual
issue where you have economical they're
connecting it to injustice is their
social economical political but it's a
spiritual issue like when the devil at
least when he was told to bow down he
said I'm better than him right that's
racism up Friday it's about pride this
is so if we deal with it from the root
then we can hopefully exterminate it in
Islam is the only way of life clear tax
clear guidelines and a clear way of how
to deal with it I don't see that in any
other way of life religion man-made
religion except the divine religion from
the Creator it's clear guidelines on
there is no differential between a white
and a black Arab non Arab it just clear
you know i'm d'lai yeah that's true
and the whole like you said it's like a
complete way of life too so you know if
you follow the blueprint yeah like God
has given us you know through the Quran
and Sunnah and then you know you kind of
start seeing this in your own life yeah
and yeah like I said it you start
walking around with this kind of sense
of peace and you know something might
have I might get hit by a bus who knows
yeah who knows what might happen but
it's okay because you know it's his plan
and I've learned you know throughout my
life that ultimately you know Allah
knows the best and his plan always comes
out for the best you know I've seen that
in my own life know so all you have to
do is trust and you know just keep
humbling yourself yeah tell us so we
talked about some beautiful things and
but there's also another side and this
is just life I mean there is good times
bad time sad times happy times what were
some of the things the challenges that
you faced being a new Muslim making this
very important decision in life did you
get a lot of kickback we know there's a
lot of misconceptions surrounding around
a lot of lies misinformation Oh Islam is
about terrorism Islam is this Islam is
that all these a lot of these negative
things propaganda false information did
you have to deal with a lot of these
things at a per ton we're still many are
dealing with it any experiences how it
turned out yeah I did deal with some of
the at a distance
you know some people my family not
everyone but some people my family again
they kind of had bought into the
propaganda yeah because you know again
they personally didn't know any they
weren't exposed to it they they weren't
looking at objective sources and but
thank God where I actually lived in
California and like with my circle of
friends and the environment there and
people are better educated you know I
think they're you know because there's a
big Muslim community there you know
basically people who live there know
that you know it's it's a lot more than
just what the media says yeah so I had
to deal with some of that and it was
difficult but I think over time once you
know once your family sees like the
positive changes in your life then I
think they start you know breathing a
little easier and they start having an
easier time accepting it and you know
it's not really a big issue anymore yeah
I'm gonna take a break from that because
some of these things can be real deep
for a lot of people will give them we
just gave him a little bit taste but I
want to go into your ears have some
character to them yeah we call that we
know the people who are in the martial
arts world when they see that it
represents some character you know what
I'm saying it'll experience out of that
yeah tell us about that when did you use
so you actually started training
jiu-jitsu many many years ago and did
you wrestle before also or this is all
from from jiu-jitsu jiu-jitsu yeah yeah
I started in 2015 at the age of 35 so I
was already you know I was not that
young anymore yeah but it was during
this time when I was you know trying to
make all these positive changes in my
life and you know along with Islam I say
jiu-jitsu is the other main thing that's
been the best positive influence in my
life
let's see 2015 yeah I went and I
remember after my first training I'll
never forget I just felt so great it
just you know I didn't really know what
I was doing because my first date but
just the grappling and the testing and
you know I got submitted a bunch of
times but I didn't care I just I loved
it I thought to myself where is it's
been all my life right and I just kept
going and going and there was another
discipline where you really have to
learn to deal with your ego right right
yeah it's a humbling experience yeah
when you have a guy or even a girl
smaller than you yeah you know that
chokes you have invested a minute yeah
you know you have to learn okay
well I just got to keep with it and very
humbling yeah yeah and that's the thing
it's amazing like you could be on the
mat with some people and it could be the
biggest guy or someone with the biggest
ego but after he gets he goes through
the through the runner he can be like
much more soft there huh it's more
approachable notice it yeah right yeah
so there's this respect for each other
and you take that those good qualities
and you too and you take it into the
world now right yeah you deal with
people a little bit more yeah you know
don't judge a book by it's cover
yeah yeah because you know some another
on the street you think they might be
smaller weak but you have no idea what
skills they might have exactly you learn
how to persevere you know some of the
techniques that we learned they're not
easy and you have to try them over and
over and over again before they start
working for you yeah but as long as you
don't give up then you know over time
you know it will start working so
perseverance and learning how to go at
things in different ways yeah you know
if one way doesn't work maybe try
something else yeah beautiful right
that's if one door closes go to the
other you can apply a lot of those
concepts that we learned from training
the martial arts you to into life yeah
so many so many and a huge motivator too
live more healthy you know adopt a
healthy lifestyle
I think I mentioned before I was
drinking not eating very well I was
overweight and through through jiu-jitsu
I really also learned to you know start
taking care of what I eat take care of
my body stretch
and over time you know I just felt my
body felt so much better and then
combine that with the way you can
suddenly do on the mat yeah you see all
those differences and you know it's it's
a lifestyle change
yeah you know you're not going back to
where you were how long did we're into
the training did you start getting the
cauliflower I got I'm pretty early uh
maybe two and a half years in yeah which
I know you know I have some of my
teammates were you know round belts and
they're you know they've been training
really long to me and they're still
waiting but I don't just happen on wrong
but once you got it I mean if someone
wants to pay you right now to get rid of
it I mean that's part of you now
oh yeah no that tells a story yeah right
that's what I'm talking about the
character doubt that's yeah yeah yeah I
got it sister II there's history behind
that yeah yeah I know they're people say
oh it's so ugly you don't like I don't
care no might be ugly to you but people
people who see that that represents
something yeah yeah yeah and also but
it's funny like how many times people
would notice it and then it's a
conversation starter train and exactly
yeah you know TSA guy at the airport or
brother the brother had the mustard the
other day you know they'll see that like
oh you train like a did you train yeah
it's a good icebreaker yeah it's a
fraternity so how long did you also you
talk about nutrition taking care of the
gift that God Almighty Allah gave us
when people are desiring it and treating
it as the garbage can putting garbage in
it what had you also because you would
talk about drinking and talking about
putting garbage in the body at what
point did you start realizing man I got
to start making some adjustments here
and going down towards this path also of
nutrition and
and eating right and healthy lifestyle
just when I started training jiu-jitsu
again that really kind of started me
helped me start like eating more healthy
yeah and then when I became Muslim then
I stopped drinking and you know that
made a huge difference obviously and
then it was kind of gradual bit by bit
so at some point then I also decided
only to hell out meat mm-hmm which what
end up happening is I just see less meat
because now you know all of a sudden my
meat options are more limited so but
what's good I think is that it's
fortunately to kind of like decrease my
meat consumption you know I'll you know
I always read you know we kind of
generally eat too much meat on Ewing
mm-hmm so uh you more balanced diet no
more veggies whole grains yeah we've
gone away from that
the real food too much fake food I
called a there's a slogan that my
nutrition is put out that I've often
repeat eat real food
avoid fake food yeah the process stuff
yeah the real food is to tell you about
the good food that the Creator God
Almighty Allah has given us it's there
but we've been just so enticed you know
all the additives and all the sugars and
all these fake foods and now we let our
taste buds
you know guide us exactly that destroys
us taste good it tastes good but not
everything that is killing us and
killing us you know all the the factory
farm meat is not only killing us you
know and giving rise to superbugs
antibiotic resistant bugs but all the
havoc is freaking out the environment
and the planet so yeah I definitely
think we really need to try just as a
society as a humanity to try and move
towards more natural foods that God has
given us yeah
have you totally cut out sugar white
processed sugars I can't say hundred
percent but much much less than I used
yeah I went to war on him
yeah meaning I try to if it's I check I
don't want to touch that stuff
so you see often I mean they put it in
everything right but I mean I'll never
go and take if I'm drinking something at
home and take a tablespoon or teaspoon
of sugar that is like a no-no and on
sugary drinks no no no like coca-cola
Pepsi soda drinks that's just loaded
with sugar oh yeah and that stuff just
kills the damages the body inflammation
has a chemical chemical all that stuff
it just wrecks habit weakens your immune
system yeah I remember seeing some video
they showed what coca-cola and some
sodas do to like metal over time yeah
and it makes you guys wow you know if
you can't do that to metal what is it
doing inside your body
exactly yeah any any other call them
lifestyle hacks health hacks anything
else that you found beneficial that you
could share with us that I'll to top
your head but you do that helped you
with energy with anything else that's
beneficial for the body so I've I've
been getting this question in the past
probably a year or more when I feel like
my jujitsu steak-like gone to a whole
nother level
after I've really started doing yoga
regularly yoga and maybe not even like
it doesn't have to be official yoga just
stretching right yeah just stretching
daily made a huge huge difference for me
both on the mat with my jujitsu but I'd
say also just in general just with how I
feel and I yeah
so stretch daily yeah so just making it
as disclaimer cuz you can go deep in
some of these rituals of yoga and they
got some religious connotations and
whatnot
right if you go deep but no you're Tyler
what you're talking about you're talking
about the stretching the postures that
are really good for strengthening the
body and the breathing and whatnot yeah
and there's tons of good stuff online
that you don't have to go into all the
just kind of you know the spiritual
aspect but just some good
you know y'all go like yoga for BJJ ya
on YouTube is where I kind of started
doing my stretching routines and of
course I have to credit my coach Sean
Maher yeah
because he really kind of emphasizes the
importance of stretching to me and
that's when I started doing it and yeah
low and behold that is so underestimated
many people they just go through light
they don't eat well they don't stretch
there's not much exercise just
constantly putting junk in the body
nowadays we don't even I mean like 70%
of people now are either obese or
overweight here yeah it's a disaster
catastrophe yeah it is the lifestyle you
know we typically think about all the
people who maybe they just sit at a
computer at a desk all day yeah alright
they're not moving you know they're
drinking their sugary Starbucks or soda
and then you're eating crap food all day
mm-hmm it's not good yeah and many
people they don't I've spoken to many
other health experts professionals and
they also they see a correlation between
mental health issues and and the food
almost like that yeah
see that I could see that cuz I
definitely you know back when I was on
health he you know a lot of times were I
feel depressed mm-hmm right and just
very like I didn't see any hope for the
future I was just like glad I didn't
have any energy for anything you know
just felt bad about myself and you start
taking care yourself and your body and
again I think the linchpin of everything
for us anyway for as Muslims you know
prayer mm-hmm you know pray five times a
day take care yourself live healthy it's
like although the depression all that I
just run away tell us you mentioned
prayer we know that's a pillar of Islam
you got the five pillars obviously
before that you got the belief system
and then the five pillars if you believe
in the belief systems or six articles of
faith obviously you jump into I often
say talk is cheap so now you have to
these are the proofs and that you're a
Muslim you've submitted your will and
one of those is you testify obviously
let's talk about that
what you said what you had to do besides
making a conscious decision that this is
the truth there was no conversion
someone forced you or anything to go
walk into that mosque to make that
declaration describe that moment what
you were feeling well and it's not when
we say feeling it's not that because
obviously you did your homework it's not
just like oh I had a dream right I had a
you know this esoteric kind of thing
that people go through and they make
religion into this something that you
just can't understand now obviously did
your homework you had to confirm that my
prophet Mohamed is the last to final
messenger that the Quran is indeed from
the divine compiled over 23 years
excetera etc but what's the feeling
finally when you when you step into the
mosque and you took your Shahada and
what did you say the process described
that to us to the viewers that just have
no idea they might be polish they're
tuning in they want to see what another
polish man has to say why he accepted
Islam they're looking behind beyond the
hype and they want to come to the source
they're sincere they're not being
disingenuous describe that feeling for
us and it's the process right so as you
mentioned you know our our dnews what I
wanted I'd done all my homework and you
know I knew in my heart that you know
Islam was right and so this was just for
me that moment was just a confirmation
of that and the way it went was you know
I took a shower yeah
drove to the Masjid in Auckland there
Oakland Islamic Center and it was after
Friday prayers
so the Masjid was packed after the
Friday prayers you know they had me come
to the front and you know my finger up
and say ashhadu an ayah watch how do I
have another dress well I testify that
there is no god but Allah I testify that
Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and
you know at that moment then I
officially became Muslim and it was very
joyous you know it was like a big
celebration all the
you know brothers you know they're
cheering they come up after errs and you
know each one would hug me and I felt
like you know part of this huge family
it was beautiful
so you declared that there's nothing
worthy of worship not a human being not
an animal not a not an angel nothing
like it's in the Old Testament that
shall have no other gods except the one
God nothing in the heavens nothing in
the the earth and the heavens about
nothing nothing alongside with God just
the one God that's right
that's it that's what the testimony you
made nothing worthy of worship except
the one God Allah and Muhammad is His
Messenger and that that's to me that's
just so so rational you know that's why
I can't imagine you know ever you know
someone asked me well it's like well you
know what if what if you change your
mind someday and you know you want to
leave Islam I'm like I just can't even
why though I can't imagine ever having a
reason to do so because I'm not ever
asked as a Muslim to believe in anything
irrational yeah you know macat it yeah
there's nothing in there to cause you to
harm humanity harm yourself do anything
in just yourself or a human being
some things you might not understand
right some things you might understand
that why I gotta pray five times a day
why do I got to give for my money to the
poor why certain things you might
understand but then when it's explained
to you either all that makes sense oh
yeah and over time and then you yeah why
can't I have a girlfriend why can't I
just screw around my excuse my language
why get but you see man because you
ruined the lineage right father doesn't
the kid doesn't know who his father you
destroy humanity because now the family
structure is broken so that's why I got
all my wants man and woman to come
together to preserve family ties of
kinship and society ah makes sense yeah
see I uh I traveled to an Islamic
country for the first time that's
February to Malaysia and I saw you know
you see that you know the kind of the
social problems that you have here you
know in many ways just don't exist there
because
you know you don't have these broken
homes and families where people don't
know where their parents are and yeah
this and that you know it I thought was
very beautiful and you know ensure that
I would love to live there someday
yeah and Shalom a God Almighty Allah
making happiness yeah and I believe that
the Christians of this nation Christians
of Poland people of other faiths who
want to live by God Almighty's moral
code it's there I mean they just look
into Islam this is what they actually
want maybe they don't like the label
because it's been stigmatized right but
just get beyond that alter the content
what they actually want it's in there
it's in Islam submission to the crater
not the crate that's what Islam is yeah
I'm gonna show them another miracle
right now with you if you don't mind if
you're not too shy because it's in the
opening chapter of the Quran you're not
an Arab I'm not Arab this is just what
the last and final Testament revelation
the Quran was revealed in there's the
opening chapter right we have a living
miracle in the Quran it's been preserved
tamper free tamper proof you have little
kids I've memorized the whole entire
book now you're inspiring to memorize
more and more Quran right and this is
how we have it today that people are
just reviving it always in prayer the
original language al-fatiha
Fatiha yeah can you share it with can
you recite that for us please sure go
ahead
Hamdi revealed I mean Erik Manny Rahim
Maliki Army Dean
yokka na'budu wa iyyaka nastaa'een Adina
sirat al-mustaqim serrata adenine I'm
telling him why you didn't like the Via
dei him well that Dali takbir Allah I
thought you guys can sit at home talk
weird Allah Allah
that means who's the greatest God
Almighty is the great it's not a war cry
it just praising the Creator to heaven
earth and why is this a miracle because
look we have the original language you
see Polish man reciting the verbatim
Word of God Almighty Allah and this is
praising God that he is the owner of the
Day of Judgment you alone we worship you
alone
for help guide us to the straight path
the path of those who have earned your
favor and not those who have gone astray
this is it that's changed over 1,400
years
tell us about that tell us when you when
you studied the Quran when the
preservation what were you looking for
to confirm that this was from the
Creator how you put it to the test and
what finally confirmed that it was from
the crater that it passed the test oh
well there's so many things we could say
about this one of the things first
things I noticed though was again the
fact that it's been unchanged for 1400
years to me is kind of miraculous
because so I remember in my priestly
studies studying the Bible and you know
there are all these classes we took on
you know exegesis and the different
versions right so there's so many
different versions of the Bible floating
around there even in the original Greek
and you know different manuscripts and
so all these scholars have to try and
come together and decide well what was
the original read the actual original is
lost right so what we have today is just
people's best attempts at recreating
what they think was the original but
with the Quran we actually have the he
said the verbatim Word of God that was
passed down to the Prophet so I like
whether he was so and it's you know
original pure form to this day and that
immediately got my attention as being
miraculous and something that I had to
study and look at and then of course
once you study more than the other thing
you sees all the scientific knowledge
that you find in there that nobody knew
about back then you know not only you
know the Prophet peace be upon him but
nobody in the world at that time you you
know things like mountains having roots
and you know things about the Stars and
just people really need to like dig deep
and read about it and check it out it's
amazing yeah one of my teacher and good
close friend he made an example he said
okay look if you have
for simplicity's sake he had the green
bean and the red bean and the red bean
represented false statements and the
green bean represents the accurate
statements so how could prophet muhammad
peace and blessings be upon him he's
foretelling certain things that were
going to come certain things about the
human development in the embryo what you
just said the mountains having pegs one
third being under the earth the universe
expanding and other things right and
let's say for argument's sake you had
someone else at a certain time they
might have guessed something right but
they also guessed a lot of things that
were wrong right so for this thing that
he gets right put it a green bean this
thing put another green bean you get it
mmm and this one green green green there
are no rets my friends there are no Reds
my friend right right no and if you go
to the experts because some people will
try to be you know they think they're
intelligent or Komorowski all it's a
contradict no no there's no
contradictions there's nothing there
that is wrong a red bean there is no red
beans yeah they're like humans being
made out of sperm I even I had a I
remember doing just this passive I'm a
done you know I was reading the Quran
and I forget exactly where it was but it
like literally described the Big Bang
yes yeah you know and I was like wow put
another green in there in the bag yeah
so this this is what I also fascinated
me you know and not only the Prophet
Muhammad peace and blessing upon this is
just another whole topic I mean when you
look at his life he couldn't read or
write
he was al-amin the trustworthy known as
community never to have told a lie they
came to assassinate him eighteen
different or more attempts on his life
and what happens at that one point he
put he left his cousin and with all the
belong cuz they'd have Chase Bank right
yeah so then they came to assassinate
him all the different tribes of the
different spears you know this situation
that happened and then what happens they
find his cousin Ali there and then with
the possessions that they left with him
can you imagine the the the the
trustworthiness the character of this
man
and then then all of a sudden he comes
up with all these things that are you
would think they're making life harder
the prohibition of sex outside of
marriage interest alcohol fornicate all
these other things like where others
will say all you can do it just just
believe you know what I mean no no no
yeah that was another thing I was a book
of hadith yeah and there's so many times
when I I'd read one the hadith of the
Prophet peace be upon and yeah you could
tell right away just like the humility
mmm-hmm and the the kind of tenderness
yes and that's another thing that you
know you would never wreck it's like a
completely different person that you
talk about if you only listen to you
know some parts of the media yes and you
know the haters out there you know it's
like no it's completely different person
you're talking about yeah it's not what
we know about it huh no and people will
try to because he fought battles but was
he a warlord would he's someone who
promoted violence absolutely not but if
you look at it in context will celebrate
Alexander the Great people will
Braveheart and all these things as men
right but I'm an Washington right but
its face on the mountain yeah but if you
look at this man who's set I mean
there's a there's a the scenario can you
imagine they heard a sound in the area
there in the town and then people were
frightened but then they came and they
narrate Prophet Muhammad was bareback on
the horse right he went to go see what
it is can you imagine that
he's everything's good every he went to
go check he was the first one he was
like a lion on the battlefield but he
was always thinking of others who
exactly right so these were defensive
wars that were fought right some were
offensive but they were just it's the
Just War theory it's there in the canoe
if it's it wasn't it was never to go
kill innocent human beings or whatnot
but this is why it's important sharing
this message even if it's not to
obviously the guidance is in the hands
of the creator of heavens on earth but
just to dispel many of the myths and the
misconceptions they need to hear these
things is very important yeah exactly
going back to where we talked about the
personal connection yeah you know I
think if people again just we're to go
to Masjid and Percy meet Muslims and
realize it's not like an aggressive
Highland bunch yeah there are family
people family men all right everyone
just wants to live peacefully to their
families yeah but hey you know if
someone's trying to kill your family
we're man's gotta do what a man's gotta
do that's the crazy what rule law I mean
I could just keep talking to you man way
I'm really enjoying our conversation but
just to go off what you said will end
with that and sha Allah people go visit
God willing go visit a mosque it was
here in Chicago my friend dr. Sabeel was
telling me that he was on his way to go
and talk at a mosque at a Masjid and
there was a bunch of people outside and
they had signs there protesting or
something and the Imam he called him he
knew the Imam he said what's going on
and he said these people are outside
they're you know spewing all this kind
of hate he said invite them in open the
door right let him come in and order
some pizza yeah this is the this is like
when problem Mohammed you know when he
conquered Mecca this is a I mean just
magnanimous example of mercy imagine
people who were torturing rape doing all
sorts of evil and justices he conquers
the city and he doesn't rain havoc and
revenge back so then those people coming
back to the story they came into the
mosque and he said let him in the
basement go see there's no bombs is not
a bomb-making Factory and totally like
you just great advice you're giving they
went in perception totally changed we
need to open up the mosque
more or open houses yeah so Muslims can
take from this open the Masjid send out
letters invite them for I wouldn't say
pizza I don't need to be but some
healthy food yeah or some no you could
do Pizza extras hello hello yes hello
pizza or some some good gluten-free
pizza whatever they can argue okay yeah
so some good food invite them in and let
them see the Masjid ask
questions and for the Christian Jews and
others who out there atheists agnostics
go visit a Muslim in a mosque how's that
you did it you're gonna be a justice
priests you ended up going investigating
visiting a mosque particular shout then
you hear on the d800e god is great
what so you gave that advice thank you
brother thank you very much very nice to
have you on the program
thank you chuckle I had salami and if
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assalamualaikum