[Music]
Alhamdulillah. Asalam alaikkum. Welcome
to another episode of the Dean Show on
location and we've interviewed uh all
sorts of Muslims all over the world. I
told you if there's a Muslim on the
moon, we'd be interviewing him. But I
found a Muslim from Romania, a Romanian
Muslim loving Islam. Jabriel assalamu
alaykum.
How are you brother? Alhamdulillah. Good
good to be here. Alhamdulillah. Want to
ask you a few questions inshallah. All
right. So in a predominantly Christian,
Orthodox, Catholic, uh Romania, how did
you find Islam? Um
actually um it's a long story. I'll try
to make as short as possible. Yes. So
Romania is predominantly Orthodox and
some Catholic. That's my background.
Most of my family was, you know, raising
me that that way. Um Christianity is
part part of the culture there. It's
it's not something that you just choose.
You know, you're raised into it. Uh we
were having Bible class, you know,
starting grade one. And I'm not talking
about here just your normal average
Bible study. like you actually go in
depth and you you know you you and I
developed actually a love for for faith
you know for for Christianity
and uh I used to be uh one of the only
ones in my family used to go to church
actually believe it or not you know
grade one I would go by myself uh to
church and even pick some of the kids in
the neighborhood and take him to church
you know and even the parents were like
what is this guy doing so uh yeah it was
uh you know I developed a love for God
and interest in in in faith
uh to the point where I used to cross
the road. I used to cross myself, you
know what I mean? I was very very into
it. And um
I was introduced to Islam uh very early
actually, you know, part of our history
classes in in Romania. We you know, we
have a long history with the with the
Turks, with the Muslim Turks. And we
were always taught that they're
disbelievers. You know, they believe in
this god, Allah, who is a different god,
who's just, you know, someone out there
who's totally, you know, different,
right? So, you know, we were kind of
taught not to like them. I wouldn't put
it hate them, but not to like them. And
the Romanes were always praising, you
know, they defeated Turks and, you know,
but obviously history knows that. So,
the Muslims are called Turks. Yeah, the
Muslims are called Turks. And we were
memorizing even like even now I know
some some poetry in Romania know kind of
against you know uh the the the Muslim
Turks and praising the Romanians and the
Christian armies and how they defeated
you know in certain battles the Turks.
So, you know, it was very nationalistic
type. Nationalistic very that's part of
the culture. It was part of the culture.
Yeah. And uh you know so I I had that uh
preconceived idea um you know when push
push come to shove different things
happened in my lives and um you know I
kind of when I came to Canada uh which
was uh 1998
I was introduced to Muslims. I actually
finally got to meet a Muslim and I was
like was it a Turkish Muslim? It was not
a Turkish Muslim. It was actually a
Bosian Muslim. Bosian Muslim. Bosnian
Muslim. And you know and I real and I
met other Muslims Arab Muslims and I
I've seen these you know variety of
people from different backgrounds all
being Muslim you know all talking about
the same this Allah this God Allah you
know and I was like who is this you know
Allah so finally slowly I realized first
of all that some of the things that they
were saying about Muslims you know being
pagan and you know bad people that they
were not they're actually very nice
people and good people and they're
actually praying a lot you know and they
prayed in a manner which you know I
really really became to love from the
beginning when I when I would, you know,
see my friend praying, I was I felt like
I was missing something myself in my
prayers, you know. So, I actually at at
one point in my life when I was still a
Christian, I used to get down and make
sujud, you know, cuz I felt like that's
like closer to to God than, you know,
just my normal prayers while kneeling or
just, you know, crossing my hands,
right? Meaning they would like fall on
their face and pray to God, come up all
the way down, right? they would uh you
know make uh what's called full
prostration which is weird because it's
it's also described of Jesus peace be
upon him of doing it in the gospels
right so uh you know he did that so you
know I I I really became to love you
know that way of prayer and I started
you know being very interested in in
Islam you know trying to understand a
little bit about Islam trying to you
know see and a lot of the things that I
you know knew before about Islam were
just you know you know misconceptions
and Um there came to a point where you
know I was really um
I I would say it was it was the guidance
of God that really made me question my
own faith you know I was I was really
you know into different things happened
in my life basically um you know I mean
I wouldn't like to flaunt it on on you
were like uh just everybody else just
chasing the material world satisfying
the flesh and you know okay if if you
want to put it yeah I was you know
drinking and even I didn't like
drinking, but I was, you know, trying to
uh, you know, be in conformity with my
friends and everything. It's the past,
you know, but but it's reality. That's
what people are caught up into. Just
having a good time. Get all you can.
That's what it was with Canada. Coming
here. Uh, my parents kind of divorced
and, you know, basically certain things
happened that really opened my mind.
Right. Something missing now. You were
missing something. There was there was
there was a lot missing from the
beginning actually. And and now I
realize that and that that void was very
deep right now when you know my life was
you know even more empty because my
family was broken apart and you know I
was culturally confused coming to Canada
right like the culture was different
right so I was like I was having
identity you know issues I was like I
mean who who am I really you know and
what what is you know that same you know
question that everyone asked why am I
here the nightclubs and the drinking
wasn't and the w all that stuff wasn't
satisfied answering your questions right
um I turned to uh to the female uh you
know side for some time and that
supposedly gave some uh some you know
took my mind off it for some time but um
no it didn't you know the the night the
night life and the drinking which I
didn't like um the drugs I never did
because I I couldn't I was just a sports
guy all the time so I couldn't do but uh
the the night life never did I used to
go back in my bed at night I remember
you know being drunk and just laying on
the back and just sitting almost you
know day nightly you know every night I
would say like, "Okay, what did I just
do?" You know, like I went, I laughed, I
had fun. Yes, I got drunk and, you know,
I danced, but I just feel like so empty.
What's what's what did I do? I mean, I
don't feel happy. Yeah. Everyone's
laughing like the, you know, it's so
fake because you're there and you're,
you know, you you pretend you're having
a good time, but I would go home and I
would literally be like, like, what? I
don't know. Like, can I see myself like
this in 5 years, 10 years? What am I
really doing? So, I was very very empty.
And uh you know I was I was definitely
looking uh uh for something and then it
came to the point where I was you know
involved with a certain girl and we had
some issues and arguments. I remember
that one night very very quite very well
actually that I asked God to you know I
I fell on my doing that you know sujud
that prostration way the Muslims prayed
you you copied that you fell on your
faith you humbled yourself. I humbled
myself, you know, and I remember I was
crying because I just I was so
depressed. I was just like, man, like I
don't know. I'm not happy, you know? I
mean, I came from a third world country
where everyone support, everyone's
dreaming to come to Canada. Everyone's
dreaming to come to United States, you
know, I mean, that's like the utopia,
you know, you want to go there, but when
you reach there, it's like, okay, a year
was like, wow, nice buildings, nice
cars, nice clothes. But then after some
time, you're just like, okay, is that
it? you know, like uh where is all that
hype that everyone's talking about? So,
I humbled myself and I put my head down
to ground. I was just depressed. I was
like, man, I don't know who I am. And I
said, uh, you know, oh god, I'm just I'm
not happy with, you know, girlfriend
this, that, money, whatever, you know,
you're trying to get. I'm not happy, you
know, like I mean, I I need I need to
find the way. What is this way, you
know, that you want me? I was I was I
was confused, you know. I was just like
you know and I even before I turned to
the Bible to look for answers right but
I was confused and I asked you know the
almighty in that position and I was
honestly you know I mean I don't like to
to you know to to show but like I was
crying you know I was really in a
depressed state and I remember even
after some time I went to the doctor
because I felt I was depressed right and
I mean all you see throughout the TV you
know doctors and prozac and you know
anti-depressants right so the first
thing that clicked my mind let me go to
doctor I mean there's something wrong
with Let me not so you don't feel too
bad because I'll guarantee you there's
millions of people that are in that
state right now, but they're not doing
what you did. You humbled yourself and
you're asking God to guide you.
Continue, please. Yes. So, I went to the
doctor and I was like, listen, uh I wake
up in the morning and I have anxiety
attacks. Like, my heart's about to jump
out of my chest. I can't go to school
anymore. I don't feel like I would go to
school. I would look at the school door
and I would turn around sometimes, you
know? I just my marks went down. I was
like, I don't I don't know what's going
on. So the doctor said, you know, here
I'll prescribe you some medicine, right?
So I look at them. I'm like, I don't
want to take pills, man. I Zanax was
Xanax. I don't remember what it was. I
just don't want to take pills, you know?
I need to I need there's there's a
greater purpose for me, you know? I
can't just stuff myself with pills and,
you know, hope it's going to go away. So
I remember I I I went um you know, home
and and you know, from this time till
the time I found Islam, it was actually
a great period of time. I would say
about you know a year and a half or so
where you know it's still emptiness you
know I I try to look for different
places I try to forget about these
things I tried to push myself to be
someone I wasn't just so I you know I
appear macho and strong uh you know and
it worked for some time you know I mean
I was doing very well in school I was
becoming very popular on the soccer team
but it's still you know it it was it was
catching up with me once in a while
right and just you know bringing back
those same feelings and I knew that I'm
just covering up you know sooner or
later it's going to that reality is
going to uh come back to to haunt me.
And I remember uh exactly the the time
when I actually gave up uh Christianity
uh because of course I turned to it for
answers and I was I moved I got kind of
kicked out from one of the schools you
know told not to come back and I went to
a Catholic school and I remember the
priest would come in and you know tell
us about God and I would I would just be
like I would have questions for him
right and unfortunately I was you know
my methodology was not the best you know
I was a bit rude and uh you know I would
just keep cutting him off and
questioning I was like it makes no sense
it makes no sense can you please explain
this can you please explain and that and
you just say you have to believe.
Um, and I remember that I went one day
home and it was I think it was Saturday
morning. I was sitting in front of the
computer and I was looking through some
Bible verses right on the internet and I
I just researched the ten commandments
which we all learned before and
memorized in school but in n you know
and I read the first commandment you
know right I am your lord thy god thou
shalt not have any gods except me you
know in heaven earth in between right I
mean we all know that you know all the
Christians know that and at that time it
just it was it was different it it
sounded different and I just realized I
was like but we don't really do that
this Christians. And I remember the next
week I went to school and I was talking
to one of my teachers. She was
explaining something about Christianity.
And I said, "But miss, uh, we don't
really, you know, I mean, the trinity
and the whole issue of, you know,
worshiping Jesus. It kind of goes
against, uh, you know, the principles of
of, you know, what, you know, the Bible
supposedly teaches." And she says,
"Yeah, you know what? You're right, but
you know, this is just something we
believe." And I remember in myself, I
said, "You know, I can't believe this. I
just can't. And I went home after some
time. I took my cross and it just went
against your very nature. Yeah. It went
against exactly that feeling in your
heart. You know, you you know, I mean,
you you have it in yourself as to what
you know, you you would see a
contradiction, you know, there's a
contradiction there. So, I went home.
You know, obviously I wouldn't do that
right now, break a cross anything, but I
broke my crosses. I broke all, you know,
like icons that we have. Usually as
Catholics or Orthodox, they have icons.
I took those away and uh I just said,
"You know what? I I believe in God. All
religions are equally evil or whatever.
They just cause wars and I just believe
in God and and you know, I'll just live
my life like that. I'll have my own
religion where I, you know, I'm okay
with everyone as long as they call upon
God and I can have no problem with
praying with all and I remember even one
of my friends I was telling the Bosian
guy, I was like, we're going on Toronto
trip and I say, you know, I'll pray with
you guys. I don't mind, you know, cuz
you guys pray to God." He says, "Yeah."
He's like, "Yeah, I actually I like your
prayer. teach me how to pray, right? And
that's what started that he actually
said, "Okay, let me teach you how to
pray." So, you know, he um he uh he
gave, you know, I gave up Christianity
uh fully. I was, you know, openly
saying, "I'm not Christian." You know, I
I I believe in God. I'm on the religion
of God, I would say, you know, right?
And uh you know, I he taught me how to
pray. He gave me, you know, surah fatya.
And I remember I was uh you know, my car
broke down at that time for some time
and I was going on the bus and every
time I'll be on the bus, I was reading
through it. I was like, I will never
remember these words, you know, like
what is alhamdulillah, you know, I'm not
going to remember this, you know, what
is Arabic? I mean, why does it have to
be Arabic? I would put in my pocket and
amazingly
it would start going in my mind you know
alhamdulillah you know I was like whoa I
mean it's it's amazing how you know and
after some time easily I memorized it
and he actually I told him that and he
told me well actually this is one of the
uh the uh the Quran's the f first
chapter in the in the the verbatim word
of God the Quran and he said that's also
one of the miracles cuz I I said I I
memorized it so easily he said you know
that's one of the things that Allah
tells in the Quran that you know he made
it easy for people to remember right and
I was like wow interesting and slowly
slowly very uh very you know uh with
much wisdom he started telling me about
Islam I started taking different books I
was hiding him mind you um you know
under my pillow usually so my family
doesn't really know I didn't want him to
you know I was a bit embarrassed you
know that I'm looking into you know what
they perceive to be this Turkish
religion which you know it's a pagan god
and whatnot so I was kind of like hiding
it and uh I was looking through it But
um you know again the worldly uh things
caught up with me and I was pushing it
was a struggle you know I was pushing
the knowledge trying to get into the
world I wasn't happy with the world
trying to back go back to the knowledge
and I was you know uh struggling with it
to I actually it was interesting one of
the times that actually you know I went
to the I was going to the mosque with
with my friend you know and we were
sitting down one time and uh one guy
comes to to us where he was actually he
knows me and you know he saw me before
in the mosque and he didn't see me for a
long time and he comes he looks at me
he's like wow how how are you you know
did you become Muslim and slip of a
tongue I say yeah I said no and he
started screaming oh brothers this guy
became Muslim and I was like no no no no
no and both me and my friend were like
trying to explain to him no he didn't
become Muslim he just you know I made a
mistake but that mistake was an innate
mistake that was what in my heart I was
wanting you know like a slip of the
tongue in psychology something that you
really think about it's inside of you
and you can't control it anymore you
know and you just you you let it go
right so
I That's what actually my my heart was
uh was wanting but I was fighting it.
What what a what a uh no go ahead and I
was fighting it very well uh because I
pushed it again away and uh what
happened is my friend actually and me we
went to different schools and for some
time we didn't see each other right so
that connection you know kind of stopped
right and I got caught up again with you
know the worldly things on the other
side but um there was one incident and I
mean I don't base the proof on dreams
and stuff like that but there was one
incident that I can't I can't just swipe
over I mean It just catches up with me
all the time that I was sleeping one
night after, you know, doing my thing
and coming home. I was sleeping one
night in my bed and I dreamt that I was
partying and I was in the house and it
was dark and you know um you know you
know the scenario right and um certain
person approaches me and stabs me in the
stomach and it was so real. It was what
you call like a lucid dream. You know,
it's very you can't really tell the
difference between reality and and
dream. And I was hurting and I was
bleeding and I was holding my stomach
and I was, you know, getting dizzy and I
walked outside. It was very dark and I
heard the the uh the ambulance coming
and when I walked outside, it was very
dark and I looked in the sky and I saw a
light in the sky, right? And my soul
left, you know, my body and it was so
real that I actually felt it. And as my
soul left my body and it was going
towards the light, I woke up. And when I
woke up, I was just crying. I was just
wet, sweaty, you know, like I could just
came out of the pool like I was just
sweating. I didn't know what happened.
You know, my reaction was like, "Okay,
you know, in our culture, if you dream,
you know, these kind of dreams,
nightmares, maybe something bad
happened, right?" So, I went checked up
on my mom, see if she's okay, see if my
brother's okay. Everyone's okay. And I
couldn't I was just sitting in my bed
and I went back and I was like, I don't
know, like how do I interpret this? And
I realized, you know, just in in my in
my um
you know, in my arrogance that there is
a way out there and it's not my way. I
can't just pick my own way and say, you
know what, forget with this, forget with
that. I have my own way. There is a way
out there and God wants me to find it
till it's too late. That's how I I mean,
that was just my own interpretation of
dream. Not that, you know, I stayed in
ponder, but I felt it as well. You know,
I need to find something. I know there
is. I'm just finding myself, you know.
I'm just, you know, fooling myself that
there isn't something out there. I just
need to find it. And you know what? So,
so what what was that the the logical
rational thing, the the overwhelming
thing about Islam that overtook you and
had you take that step onto becoming a
Muslim? I would say it was what you know
what we call in Islam to right the
oneness of of of of Allah of God, the
perfect oneness. Cuz a lot of people
claim that they have you know the
oneness of God but that perfect oneness
of God and also another thing what we
call the fra that it fits your your
humane your natural disposition you know
you just it fits that and before knowing
all these you know I mean of course he
added later on to my to my firm belief
but before I knew you know concepts of
knowledge of of science and the Quran
and all these you know uh beautiful
things the Quran that are used today for
proofs you know I had I would say what
you know I could really understand how
the Sahabas fell you know because they
didn't know about all these sciences in
the Quran right but they they had thehed
and the fra you know and that matched
right so that's where um you know slowly
I I came you know to to uh you know to
to link that prayer that I made that one
night that desperate prayer and the
dream and you know all the everything
that happened that's what it was pushing
me to that was the answer for me to that
to that prayer that I made for God to
show me you know the one true path and
and very interesting that you know as
humans right And son, you're always
forgetting. It was very interesting
because I was eager again trying to
fight it. And I remember the day when I
was I gave up. It was the day that again
I I saw that I mean you know God sends
people to guide you. I saw that you know
Bosian brother again and it was in the
computer center. He was watching a very
famous nasheed everyone watches probably
you know the last breath you know bkhat
right and you know it's about the body
the soul leaving the body you know and
says you know and it is true but it's
too late you know and it really when I
watched it it just it connected
everything you know and I told you know
kind of like the next day I told him uh
you know I really felt that this is the
day I woke up that day it was just
perfect walking on my way to the
university I was just I felt that you
know what this is I can't I mean I can't
fool myself you know anymore this is too
much. I I'm just kidding myself. And uh
I saw him actually on the way from one
of the class and I said, you know what,
can you please help me with something?
Can you come over to my house? I need
some help. And he came at night and you
know I I went down downstairs. We went
like you know in front of the house and
um I told him I want to be Muslim and
he's like no way. He's like I knew it
all along. He's like you know he was so
happy and you know very simply he told
me you know you know I'm like obviously
you know what I do. He said you just
repeat after me. And he saidhamd
such a beautiful you know statement very
simple for for a person you know to to
uh you know to to become a Muslim and
since that day alhamdulillah you know
I've been a Muslim uh you know I thought
that that's going to be you know the the
the the how would I say the the
threshold you know when you reach your
your maxima uh in your life. And I
always believed that God had a purpose
uh for me but uh it wasn't it was just
the beginning of life. So now you became
a Muslim. You took the declaration of
faith which was
which is basically bearing witness that
there is only there is only one God.
There's no deity worthy of worship
except this one God, Allah, the creator
of the heavens and the earth and that
Muhammad is his slave servant and the
finality of the prophet just like Jesus,
Moses, Noah were all messengers of God.
Now you're a Muslim ones who surrenders
and submits to the creator, none of his
creation. You pray to him, you worship
him alone. Tell us for someone else
who's hearing your story, what advice do
you have for doesn't matter if he's
Romanian, Italian, Irish, uh, white,
black, Chinese, Islam is for the whole
world, for all mankind. What advice do
you have someone who might be, uh,
caught up in that grip of cultural
barriers? I'm born into this and I can't
get out. But he's feeling inside. He
feels that that his his natural instinct
or his natural what we call fra that
that it doesn't make sense that God is
three and one and all praying and and
all these other things that they believe
but you know what he's having a hard
time coming over that barrier he can
relate to you what advice do you give
that person uh my advice is you know
just be sincere I mean
God you know Allah he hears everyone's
prayer you know just be sincere and and
be open to the truth there's lots of
baggage that you have to push on the
side, you know, and that's what I was
trying to tell. You know, there was a a
fight between myself, what I, you know,
what my desire wanted and, you know,
what the truth was. And that's what
Islam is really is once you reach the
truth is you're submitting to it. You
know, what do you, you know, you might
not, you know, want to wake up, for
example, at 5 in the morning to pray,
right? And a person seeking the truth
and you might hear that and might not be
used to it be like, "Oh man, 5:00 or
4:30 sometimes or, you know, 4:00."
That's your body, you know,
unnecessarily. You want to sleep, right?
But that's the whole issue of Islam. you
go against that desire of the body
because you submit that will to the will
of the creator and that's the beautiful
thing about it you know as you explain
that's you know the concept of of faith
in Islam to and worshiping you know if
you're sincere and you ask for it get
down there on on your knees put your
head on the ground if you're Christian
you're not going to have a problem with
it because you know Jesus did it Abraham
did it uh and other prophets did it put
your head on the ground and ask you You
know, don't ask in anyone else's name,
okay? This will not be something that
will go against uh, you know, your
belief either. Just ask the one true
creator. Just say, "Oh my, oh my lord,
creator of the heavens and the earth,
right? Use, you know, oh the most
gracious, the most merciful, the
creator, show me the truth. I'm looking
for you. I want to submit my will to
your will. Just show me the light." And
without any doubt, without without any
doubt, he will guide you without any
doubt. Thank you once again for for
being with us on the Dean Show. Like to
thank everybody for tuning in. I told
you Islam is for everybody. We have
interviewed many people from all over uh
the world, different countries, and we
just got to interview somebody from
Romania. So inshallah, God willing, you
got to benefit. Tune in every week at
the deansshow.com tdeow.com
for more great topics, great lectures,
and more of Islam and Muslims straight
from the source. Till next time,
alaykum. Peace be unto you.