This is the
alhamdulillah. Lookman, tell us when
when we hear we hear the words uh
hellfire, paradise. You as a former
atheist, I mean this is like over the
head. What tell get us in the mind of
the atheist when he hears these ter
these terms.
Okay.
So, uh when I was an atheist, I was I
was people of Kufar. I was I was
hardcore. I was a hardcore caffer. I
mean I No, I I listen up. Listen up. I I
was I was a science nerd, you know. I I
I I majored in science and then in in
college and uh you know, my professors
would make fun of religious people and I
would make fun of religious people, you
know. I mean, I I just couldn't
understand it at the time. But then, you
know, as you get older, like you start
asking deeper questions, you know, and I
started asking myself, what's going to
happen after after this is all over
after this this this after I die? What's
going to happen? You know, I mean, first
of all, I mean, who would come to my
funeral? And at that time, I knew like
very few people would come to my
funeral, you I mean, and and I I I I
wouldn't be able to blame them either
because, you know, if I was if I died as
a non-believer, I would go to the
hellfire, right? I mean, so so then the
funeral would just be a very sad event,
right? Whereas if I died a believer, I
would be going to paradise and I I would
want everybody to have a party at my
funeral, you know? So, I I thought it
would just be, you know, it would it
just made sense to me, you know, if I
died a believer. I I would I I would I
would like to die a believer. Um
anything to add?
No. Tell us.
So, professor uh did you at that time
you were former Christian? So, did you
you believed in the trinity that Jesus
was God, the father was God, that Jesus
died for your sins? Was this the common
belief that was uh prevalent in your
family?
Yeah, there was. Um both of my parents
were actually um Christian preachers.
So,
your your family were Christian
preachers.
Yeah, both my mom and my dad. and you
had knowledge.
Yeah. I was born in in Chicago, but they
were part of a church that said you
needed to move away from the city. So,
we moved to rural, Mississippi, and we
were part of like this very conservative
uh Christian church. And both my my
mother and my father, they used to
who was uh TD Jake
come upon you right now. Keep me in the
chaos. God, I thank you for your
blessings.
No, no, it was before him. I'm not that
young.
Um it was uh basically yeah that was the
the the belief of the church and and our
family but um as I can say probably
about 8 or 9 years old I stopped
believing in that but I just didn't know
what other options were out there. So I
I I never got to the point where I
rejected faith completely. Like I always
believed in um always believed in God. I
believed in heaven and hell. Like my
parents are are people of like very very
like deep faith. Like my mom, she uh
she's the type of person that like if we
need a new car, she would start buying
the stuff for the new car and like every
day she's looking outside. Okay, you see
it yet? You see it? So that's the kind
of house that I came from. So um yeah,
the trendy was a part of um what we said
we believe, but I personally never
didn't believe it. And um I had a little
bit of like introduction to Islam. My
father joined the Nation of Islam in the
' 80s. Um, so we called ourselves
Muslims, but we didn't actually pray or
fast. We met on Sunday. We mostly like
our lessons came out of the Bible. So I
I just didn't know like what Islam was
until I actually went to college and got
got a chance to talk to Muslims.
So you mentioned your parents were
preachers or your father was a preacher.
Both my parents were preachers. My
parents got divorced and my father
eventually he joined the Nation of Islam
for a little bit. Uh for a few years he
was a part of the Nation of Islam and at
that time I was a part of what they call
the junior fruit of Islam just for a
very short time. Um and then eventually
like I started going back to church like
in high school but I didn't really
believe in it. I just didn't know what
else I could do.
So then you and your father and your
mother accepted Islam. Oh, just um uh
the the Muslims in my family are uh just
my uncle who uh he accepted Islam with
with the Imam Martha D Muhammad's
community in the 70s. Um he's my
father's brother. Uh myself and my wife
who's also part Filipino from
California. So I wish my sons were here
to see she Muslim mashallah. Um and uh I
have a cousin that also accepted Islam
like a few years after me, but none of
my siblings or or my parents are are
Muslim. So tell us right now we know
that the uh Christian faith revolves
totally around Jesus. This relationship
with Jesus who we love. You know many
people don't know that it's an article
of faith to believe in Jesus. You can
actually go to the hellfire if you deny
Jesus as a Muslim. Is this right?
Amen. Right. So tell us what's your
relationship with Jesus now as a Muslim.
Actually what what convinced me about
Islam? I read two uh two chapters of
Quran. I read surah bakra and that just
kind of laid everything out. And the
last question that I had was okay, what
do Muslims believe about Jesus? And so I
read uh sur
um and that just it it it just explained
what I already believe. I just didn't
know how to vocalize it. So for me like
accepting Jesus uh peace be upon him as
a prophet, that was very natural. I just
didn't know like that there was that
option out there. So seeing it in Islam
just made it like the choice that I
should make.
So do you can you do you feel your
relationship with Jesus is stronger now
than it was before?
Um
that you know him better his true
mission.
Um I think in a in a sense uh yes but uh
unlike she Musa I haven't exerted myself
in studying like him. So uh I think
probably I I definitely could learn a
lot more. Um, but I think as a as a as a
person seeking um a type of belief, and
I was thinking about this this morning,
and it's probably the first time that I
actually realized this. I think my
search for like the truth was more from
a point of arrogance. I wanted to say
like this is the truth and I have it and
now I can tell everybody else about it.
So like when I when I took shiada, I
used to debate with the the like
preachers on campus and stuff because
that's the kind of family that we came
from. We my parents used to preach on
the street corners and stuff like that.
So after a few years, you see yourself
not progressing with that that uh
methodology, you figure out that maybe
there's something else. So I think I'm
still even though I've been Muslim for
14 years, I think I'm still trying to
figure out like how to navigate that
path.
Beautiful. Mashallah. Tell us John, have
you had some some interactions with your
family and you know when this whole
topic comes up? Yeah, I've accepted
Islam. And some people say, has anyone
said, "Oh, you become a terrorist." Has
that has that been thrown that curveball
been thrown at you?
How how do you respond to that?
Uh, a lot of times I just, you know, uh,
close my eyes and and and ask Allah for
to to forgive them for their, you know,
they don't realize what they're saying.
They don't realize what they know. I
mean, a lot of people get their
information about Islam from Fox News,
you know, and and so that's that's the
whole point of having Islam awareness
week here at UIC is so that way we we we
can, you know, uh inform uh the general
student body and and everybody else that
that Islam isn't a religion of of
terrorism or anything like that, you
know, but uh it's a beautiful religion
and it's it's a it's a it's something
that should bring bring people together
and it should be,
you know, like like I like like I I tell
my colleagues, you you know, I uh
whenever they ask me, you know, cuz my
my other social scientist friends and
stuff like that, they're like, "What's
going on uh with uh with with this uh
religious thing you got going on now?"
You know, and and and and I tell him, I
was like, you know,
um I understand like the the the you
know, this this there's this air of
Islamophobia and stuff like that going
on in the country, you know, and so
naturally that bleeds over into even
into academia. It's you know academics
you know but um I I tell them that you
know I
bringing uh you know I try I try I try
to talk about inclusion as opposed to
exclusion and I try to talk about like
we we you know uh we're trying to
include everybody uh in in in Islam and
try to like
I don't know I you know my my f my my
family would uh would talk about you
know this this terrorism stuff and would
would and And uh and you know I went I
went to a uh I went to a weekl long uh
summer intensive you know to to learn
more and and of course my dad thought I
was going to an al-Qaeda training camp
or something like that and I was like no
no it's it's it's a familyoriented thing
it's like camp Lawrence or something
like that you know it's it's uh uh it's
it's nothing crazy you know but but yeah
I I think I think every convert you know
has to experience some form of a you
know some form of you know jihad like a
struggle you know uh among amongst our
families and friends and stuff like
that. So
jihad often mistransated as holy war.
The word jihad means to struggle. Islam
does not preach violence. It does not
preach vicious holy war. It certainly
does not condone terror and suicide
bombing. Islam preaches compassion,
tolerance, and justice. Find the truth
about Islam. Call toll-free 877 Y Islam.
Order your free copy of the Quran today.
Word can't have defects in it, can it?
If it is literally God's word,
yes,
it cannot have defects.
I mean, this was written by men, we know
that this is a collection, right? Even
if you have Matthew, Mark, Luke, and
John, the gospel according to
according to,
right? Um the the thing about the Quran
and the biggest and and you know I'll
leave you with this is the biggest thing
for me is if the Quran is exactly what
it says it is and this doesn't matter
whether you're a Muslim or not. If the
Quran is what it says it is the Quran is
literally the word of God delivered via
Gabriel to Muhammad who was an
unlettered man who couldn't read or
write. Right? And he was just told to
recite. Right? That was the first thing.
Right? First thing he was told recite,
right?
Um so if it is literally the word of God
then that's pretty important to me. And
and before I became Muslim, I said, "If
this is the word of God,
then I'm gonna follow it because I'd be
stupid not to."
I am not afraid to stand alone.
I am not afraid to stand alone. If Allah
is by Messiah, I am not afraid to stand
alone.
I am not afraid to stand alone. If Allah
is by my side, I am not afraid to stand
alone.
I am not afraid to stand alone. If Allah
is by my side, I am not afraid to stand
alone.
Tell tell us uh Shik Mus, why is it
important now that people really
reflect? Because when you talk about
religion, it's not really the cool thing
to talk about. And and you might get
some, you know, heads that turn the
other way. But why is it? We know this
dean, this way of life that we practice
is not restricted. It's not just a
religion. It's a total complete way of
life from A to A to Z. Tell us. But how
do you get people to really reflect and
to take the matter seriously about the
purpose of life? Really reflecting why
we've been created. What's the purpose
of life? you know, why why is this, you
know, for somebody out there who's
viewing us and maybe they just, you
know, turned over from a from a MTV m
music video and they're watching the
Dean show and we got their ear. Why is
it really important to contemplate about
the purpose of life?
When we look at our existence, you know,
we have the physical, we have the
intellectual, and there's also the
spiritual. And if you neglect any one of
those three, you're going to feel an
emptiness. And I think sometimes that's
why a person can have everything in
life, you know, tangibly speaking and
have family, have people who like them,
be popular, have wealth, have status,
but they can still feel that emptiness
because that spirituality is lacking. So
spirituality is a part of the equation
that you have to tend to. And just like
if you ignore your physical, you'll get
sick. But the only danger about ignoring
your spiritual is that you know uh you
don't see the ramifications. You don't
see the the the symptoms because it's
something which is unseen. Your soul is
not something which you can see. The
body you can see. So you don't see the
symptoms when your soul gets sick and
when your spirit gets sick and that can
be very dangerous because if you don't
take care of a sickness then it
escalates. So spirituality is definitely
something that you have to address. It's
not like something you know that a
minority group or people or something
like that some people on the side try to
think this is this is a part of life.
It's in the discourse of life something
you should try to address when it comes
to the purpose of your existence and the
existence of God in general. Um, it's
something you have to give serious
thought to because um, chances are
you're probably born into the wrong
religion. If you believe right, if you
believe that there is one right way or
one God and there's one way that he
wants you to follow, chances are you
were born into the wrong religion.
That's just the way it is if you look at
it from a numbers perspective. Um, so
you have to actually find out why you
believe. And that's why even you said
right as I think I heard overheard you
speaking um that as a Muslim even as a
Muslim there has to come a point in your
life where you choose you want to be a
Muslim. Just the fact that your mother
and mommy and daddy was Muslim doesn't
make you a Muslim. You have to choose.
There comes a point where you have to
make a conscious decision. And this is
an issue in in in theology and and and
the science of theology that is the
Muslim valid the the the inherit can you
inherit faith and the answer by the most
scholars is no right because what that
what that suggests is that whoever you
inherited from and whoever you blindly
follow if they were to change you would
also follow them in that so your faith
isn't real. You have to make a conscious
decision at one point that yes, this is
what I believe in. And whoever it was
that led me to this, if they left, I
would stay. Even if a person's mother
and father left, I would stay. So, you
have to make that conscious decision.
And that's why we have to learn our
faith. Even it's not enough to just be a
Muslim, but we should try to also learn
as much as we can. And that's I guess
advice for everyone. Find out why it is
that you follow what you follow and make
a decision for yourself and you can live
with that.
Tell us uh Lukman you've uh you're going
attending the university correct?
Yeah.
And have you taken or for anybody has
taken a a philosophy 101 class and now
the teacher the professor comes in and
puts on the board no god here and now
the engagement starts. Have you had this
happen to you at all? Have you had um or
how would you if you were in this
predicament now being a former atheist
now a Muslim how would you engage with
them professor if this happened?
They were laughing at religious people.
No, you you you hear this comment happen
where, you know, it's it's a real
scenario where the teacher comes in and
puts no god and then now the debate
opens.
Well, then uh I would laugh at them
because I mean then because they they
don't know what they're talking about. I
mean they
Has anybody had this happen?
I it hasn't happened to me yet. I I
don't know. I I I mean I I respect
everybody's beliefs though. If you if
you don't want to believe there's a god,
I mean there's there's nothing I can
really do about it. I mean I might I
mean like if if I was I think the best
way to perform dawa is actually just to
lead by example you know just just to
just to lead a clean life for yourself
and when other people see that then
they're more likely to to actually find
the truth you know I mean that's that's
all I can really say
beautiful tell us now uh professor we
know sharing is caring we care so we
share that's why you know it's not our
job to the guidance is in the hands of
the creator he guides who he wills like
he guided you guys you wanted to know
the truth he's facilitated away. But now
you have friends, you have family and
you know uh you start to engage and your
f friend or family member says look man
I don't want to follow any organized
religion. Have you had this statement
come up and how how did you tackle it or
if it does come up? We hear this a lot.
That's a common phrase. I don't want to
follow an organized religion.
Yeah it it uh it comes up. I actually
have um family members and friends that
are very close to me. Um uh the one
blessing that I think the
African-American community has is that a
lot of us are very uncomfortable with
saying we don't believe in God. So at
least to some to some level like we we
retain some some form of faith. But a
lot of people are really disenchanted
with what they see in the church um and
the the abuse that they might have
experienced in the church. So they might
become disenchanted from all religions
because they just don't know what else
is out there. So um the thing that that
I try to um
if if that conversation ever comes up
and it it has a couple of times is that
we we usually end up at talking about
what do we think is going to happen when
we die. So like if the person believes
like nothing is going to happen, I'm
just going to turn to dirt. It's very
difficult to to uh talk beyond that. I
haven't figured out a way to to uh to
reason with any with that type of
person. But the person believes that
like they're going to be judged based on
how they live this life, the things that
they do with their time and their money.
And then you can start talking about the
criterion uh that we should live our
life by. And usually what I find is that
most of my family, they're not uh
they're not against Islam per se. And
it's actually a good thing. They feel
like they can't do Islam halfway. So,
for example, if they drink, they're
like, "Well, I could go to church and
drink, but I can't go to the mass and
drink, you know?" Or, "I have a
girlfriend. I would have to let her go.
I don't want to do that." You know? So,
really, I think it's just we continue to
pray that Allah soften their heart and
that eventually they will accept Islam.
And we try, like Luke said, try to just
be consistent. If it's time to pray, we
pray. If we say we don't eat this, we
don't eat it. and just be consistent so
they can't find any like inconsistency
in us.
Lukan, you want to comment on this?
Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to comment on that.
So, I mean, I was I was a little bit
caught off guard by your question
earlier, but uh I mean, so I was talking
about performing dawa by leading by
example and uh so actually uh when I
first flew into Chicago, the first place
I went to was actually Mazjid Alatier,
which is where Jeremiah is associated
with. And so he he was actually calling
Adon and you know leading the prayer and
everything. And uh so actually uh
Jeremiah is actually the one who invited
me to uh uh to come out to Juma at at at
UIC. And uh so I mean I I knew Jeremiah
for for a little bit more than a month
and everything. And at Juma actually
some students some fellow students came
up to him and said uh I missed your
lecture. Can I get the notes? And I was
really confused because up until then I
thought Jeremiah was just a little bit
older than me. You know I thought
thought maybe he was a grad student or
something. Then then I realized oh you
were a tenure professor you know.
Not yet.
Okay. Okay. Well okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
My my bad. Maybe. Okay. But um so then
he he he brought me into his lab and he
had uh like he's an electrical engineer
uh who does a lot of research and does a
lot of publications and I saw like all
these grad students working for him
doing all this technical stuff and uh I
mean it just I just realized like for
for a whole month I didn't even know he
was a professor. He was just that
modest, you know. It it was that modesty
that that came from Islam. I think I
think if you could sum up Islam in one
word or if I could sum up Islam in one
word, I would say modesty, you know. So
I I think I I I can see that you know I
I actually have a question for Jeremiah.
I mean do you I mean I mean this might
be a really deep question but uh so
Eddie asked me what would you do if uh
if your professor started mocking
religion? And uh so I mean back then it
was actually one of my biology teachers
who was teaching evolution. Uh who who
was who was you know bringing up all
this stuff about the flying spaghetti
monster and just just laughing at at at
religious people. But I mean it seems
like Jeremiah doesn't seem to have that
problem. Jeremiah is you know he you
teach science right? um maybe not
biology, but I mean do does that ever
bother you that maybe some of your uh
some scientific principles like the
scientific method might not really um
you know flow with religion at all or
um no it doesn't um I think like as
scientists we we we focus on what we can
like study like what we can like you you
you formulate a hypothesis you design an
experiment and then you like test that
hypothesis and like and you draw your
conclusions from there. So I think
science to me just can like open another
window to like believing in God. But I
think it's very difficult. I think it's
a a treacherous road to go down to try
to use science to try to argue with
someone about like faith because a lot
of times and I've seen this happen. You
have Muslims that start arguing about
evolution and they don't know that much
about biology. you're arguing with a
graduate student or a scientist in the
biologist and they're going to make you
look silly. And so that that makes them
think okay well the the faith is is is
not right. So I mean the I think it was
Abu Hanifh who
said u like if you see a ship like just
sailing in the middle of the ocean like
and someone said this ship just created
him itself and it just got out there and
it's guiding itself no one would believe
that. So if if a person can't like just
reflect on that basic level, you didn't
structure yourself as you are like from
your fingerprints all the way down to
the color of your skin. Every every
every feature that we have, they just
have to they just have to reflect and
think about it. Like for me being in the
I guess we say engineering or hard
sciences, we don't really have that
issue. And also I went to a historically
black college for undergrad which again
as I say African-Americans typically are
are very religious. So we we just didn't
have that issue in in undergrad. Even in
philosophy like I took a philosophy
class I took intro to logic and that
wasn't the case arguing against God. You
know they're they're more so just trying
to sharpen the mind. So, I haven't
personally dealt with those issues, but
um I think we just need to be careful
when we try to argue with people and
make sure that this is our strength when
we're debating with people. And also,
debates only go so far. What if someone
um makes a mistake or they don't have
their information correct or the person
is only convinced by debates and then
after that high goes down, what do they
do? They still have to practice. So a
lot of times people they fall out of uh
out of Islam and I've actually seen
this. I know a guy who took shahada on
pow talk and like he was coming to the
masid for like a year and he just
couldn't deal with it because he didn't
get that adrenaline rush from just
coming to pray and breaking fast because
it wasn't this like aggressive exchange.
So I think we should be a little bit
careful with that. I'm I'm not skilled
in debate. I don't know how to deal with
that that issue.
You worship Jesus?
No, you don't worship Jesus. You worship
the God of Jesus.
You You worship the God of Jesus. The
one who Jesus fell on his face and
prayed to.
Yes.
That's who we worship.
Yes.
Now, do we only believe in Muhammad?
No, we believe in all the prophets
starting from the first man created.
from Adam to Abraham
other son Jacob and the tribe Moses and
Jesus the last prophet was only Muhammad
peace be upon him
so we believe in all those messengers
you mentioned who' you mention
he we believe and there's many more so
we believe in all of them
all of them yes
all the ones that are mentioned in the
Quran
and all of them they all of them that
you know you you don't worship them but
you you worship Allah who's the creator
of them
but it's part of the belief to believe
in these messages you named like Jesus
one
you believe him then but you don't
worship them
don't worship them
yes
how important is it now for people who
have come to this way of life we see
it's the fastest growing way of life in
the world yesterday today and tomorrow
it's constantly people who are really
looking into Islam and they use their
mind they take an academic scientific
approach Islam provides evidence and
proof it's not a blind decision that
people make you know it provides all the
different proofs that one would need to
know that indeed it's not an organized
religion by man or men but it's
organized by the one who created man and
men but how important is it now you take
the shahada okay you declare there's
nothing worthy worship except the
creator not the creation Muhammad is the
last and final messenger including Jesus
Moses and all the preceding messengers
bam you're in but now the shake was
talking about professor was talking
about how you know a person might have
lost that drive so we know the fuel for
that is knowledge let's talk about the
important of continuing education from
the cradle to the grave because we know
it's obligatory to every Muslim to keep
seeking knowledge. How important is this
would you say? Well, mah keeping a good
environment, an environment which will
be conducive to learning about your
faith. It's it's definitely necessary
because you have that and we were just
talking downstairs. I think that
newlywed phase of a Muslim when you take
your shahada everything just feels
great. a brick can fall on your head and
you're just saying mashallah
alhamdulillah that was from God you know
it's okay and you know you're just happy
all the time and everything's all good
you're praying you're praying you know
you're you're praying in the night
actually when I took my shahada right my
brother and my my cousin and my friend
we pretty much hung out that night I
went home and my brother we stayed up
the whole night keep in mind they were
Muslim about two months at that time
maybe three months so we stayed up the
whole night and it was a Wednesday night
when I took my shot we stayed up the
whole night and it was in July, so it
was summer. It's short nights, early
fudger, late m. So, it's about 3:30 a.m.
And my brother tells me, "Oh, it's about
3:30. Let's have some breakfast right
now because tomorrow's Thursday and we
fast on Thursdays." Right? So, it was a
sunnah. It was a tradition of the
prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be
upon him, that he would fast on
Thursdays and Mondays. So, you know,
here I I just took my shahada and he's
like, "We're going to fast tomorrow,
right?" So I was like, "Okay,
alhamdulillah, no problem." And then,
you know, I we had our breakfast. Then
Fudger came and we prayed together and I
went to sleep, got some rest, and I woke
up later that morning, and it was really
like one of the best sleeps I've ever
experienced. And I remember thinking the
first thing I thought when I woke up
was, I'm Muslim. And I was extremely
happy about that. And I was happy to
fast. I broke my fast. I didn't even
feel hungry that day, right? But that
dies out. And if a person thinks, for
example, they have to maintain that or
you need to do that as a Muslim, you
might not last. So it's it's a marathon
for sure. You go in sprinting, you're
not going to finish the race. But you
you go too slow. If you go too slow, you
might not, you know, you might fall too
far behind. You do have to pace
yourself. And that's by putting yourself
in good environment, good people, people
where you can increase your knowledge
with because it is through knowledge is
food for the soul. That's how you feed
the soul is through learning. And to
stay motivated is through learning. And
you could only learn through people of
knowledge because you will even burn
yourself out by reading. Some people get
really into books and that becomes dry
unless you're really just like that. But
that can become dry, right? You can lose
motivation just from reading. But being
around people, people of faith, people
of practice, people of knowledge, this
will continue to motivate you, right? So
Allah he says in the Quran right um to
the people who will enter the paradise
before entering to parad
he first will command them go with my
righteous servants now go into paradise
and that's a lesson for us that the door
to paradise and the road through
paradise is through the company of the
righteous you enter their company and
that will lead you to the paradise so
you have to put yourself in good
environment and good surroundings people
where you can learn
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take that simple step that you ask your
maker to guide you that he'll guide you.
Yes, I I advise this a lot. Uh so for
people who are searching, put your head
on the floor
in the in the in the state of
frustration like all the prophets did
and ask the creator of the universe to
show you the way to guide you to the
straight path. And someone who sincerely
asked for guidance
they'll find it in Islam. That's it.
Do you want to know what makes
Dean show?
Are you ready?
Is
there something you want? If there is
something sit right back watch show the
D
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