zionist thing
is define the difference between jewish
jewish and zionist okay oh there's so
much in
in inaccuracy in that i was surprised if
that's an example it shows he
really knows nothing about this issue
and let a propagandist go on and on and
on
[Music]
[Applause]
and peace welcome to the dean charm
eddie your host and we got
a very important topic that we're
covering
with our special guest alison weir
is a freelance freelance journalist
a activist
and someone who has dedicated her life
to this
topic many would consider her and argue
that she's a scholar and academic
in this area with a profound amount of
knowledge and that's why we're bringing
her on to help
educate us on the issue of palestine
and israel let's bring on our special
guest
allison hello thank you for inviting me
thank you we're honored to have you
allison how how are you doing had my
coffee it's it's early here in san
francisco and i'm
very happy to be on your program we're
very happy to
to have you and did i miss anything else
i i think you covered it i i've been
working on this for about 20 years now
20 years and your organization's name is
if americans only knew yes well the
the official name is if americans knew
if americans knew let's start with that
i mean that's a catchy title like
if if americans knew what well there's
so much but the the main thing is if
americans knew that we are
involved in israel-palestine that that
we
are a central player in this issue most
of us
think oh it has something to do with our
jewish friends or our
muslim friends or um so most americans
don't know that we're
very involved in what they think is a
distant confusing issue
so if americans knew that we are very
involved
that we give israel much much over 10
million dollars
today and if americans knew
what israel is doing with our money
the injustice the violence the
oppression
the cruelty then i think we would
we would demand that u.s policies change
so that's
i guess a synopsis go ahead and
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i want to get your reaction we're going
to go to mainstream mainstream meaning
you know what's
typically put out there uh
where people usually get and form their
ideas
and then we're gonna come back to
actually where you are at one point in
your life you know the kind of
understanding
that you had so i don't know if you've
ever heard of the joe rogan
show i've heard of that yes i i know
it's very famous i don't know much about
it though
it's a very famous uh program so we're
gonna go ahead and get your reaction
to this topic that they're discussing
so if you want me to stop at any point
let me know but we'll continue on
for at least a few minutes okay all
right
experience the the zionist
thing is define the difference between
jewish jewish and zionist okay
zionist is the idea of that the jews
have a right to national
self-determination
the jewish should i keep going yeah you
looked at me like
no no no no no no the jewish longing to
return
to the land of israel is something
that's like inescapable
if you read the bible right like it's
all over there the whole idea of
and you can discount it discount god
whatever the fact is is that
the jews are a people that were
birthed sort of in this land which we
now call the land of israel
and they somehow and they were expelled
by the romans around
2000 years ago and then they came back
to that land
right it's it's like they defied the
logic of history
in doing that because by all rights they
were an indigenous
group to that land they were kicked out
and expelled and then they went back
2000 years later like it's a crazy
extraordinary story so leave that to one
part zionism the way that i
and the way that i i think is the
simplest definition is the
belief in the jewish right to
self-determination and
it's the jewish liberation movement and
so
in the let's go back to like pre-1948
which is the year that the state of
israel is established
and you have jews in you know poland and
all of these other places debating like
what is the way that we can
solve our constant like the systemic
oppression that we are constantly
enduring
and there are all of these different
responses to that problem
one argument was the socialist argument
you know if we
or the you know the anti-capitalist
argument if the problem is capitalism
and if only we defeat capitalism
anti-semitism will go away some argued
that total assimilation
was the right way to solve it we just
need to kind of disappear as jews
that's the only way we'll be fully
accepted and another group
you know which was not even the most
popular group is this idea of
we need to be able to determine our own
fate and
we will never be fully accepted the only
way that we can determine our own fate
is if is this idea of us having our own
state and our own army where we can
protect ourselves
and that is ultimately the idea that
sort of
wins out so when you're having a debate
about
you know when people say today they're
an anti-zionist yeah
the reason that that is so problematic
is they're not making that argument in
1920s eastern europe
when the state doesn't exist it's one
thing to be an anti-zionist
in theory right it's the same the
analogy i like to make is
if we're a couple and we want to have a
baby and we're debating
should we have the baby can we afford
the baby where are we going to send the
baby to school all this stuff that's a
totally moral argument to make
you can't make that argument of should
we have the baby after the baby is born
the baby is born it exists israel exists
it's a place
it's not an idea it's not an abstraction
it is a place that contains the largest
jewish community on planet earth
and so when people say that israel
doesn't have a right to exist it's like
what are you talking about
it exists so what do you want what so i
ask the person that makes the
anti-zionist argument
what do you imagine will happen like are
you
do you think that you're advocating for
genocide
right away or like you have to have no
sense of
middle eastern history or politics to
make the argument
that you can be a minority in that
region without protection
we know what that looks like that looks
like the story of the yazidis
it looks like the story of the kurds the
story of the zoroastrians the story
frankly of christians who are going to
be
completely expelled from the middle east
within the next decade which is a story
no one talks about
so the anti-zionist sentiment when
people start talking about zionists what
they're essentially talking about is
israel just existing yes they're
anti-israel existing
correct all right allison um what are
your thoughts
oh there's so much in in inaccuracy in
that i was
surprised i'd have i my impression had
been
very positive about joe rogan just the
things i've heard about him but
if that's an example it shows he really
knows nothing about this issue
and let a propagandist go on and on and
on with
um misstatements without questioning
them or bringing up any
any counter any real facts about it so
i i ended up just having to take notes
because almost every sentence she said
was um
was incorrect if if you'll give me a few
minutes i'll try to go through this
and keep in mind i'm um i'm not arab or
muslim or palestinian i'm
i have no family connections to
any of those cultures i'm not jewish so
when i began to look into this issue 20
years ago
i was very sympathetic to israel that's
the way most americans are brought up
we're
very we're acutely aware of the nazis
and what they did
and very sympathetic to to israel
because of the news cover
because of the nazis and because of the
news coverage that we've gotten for
decades
that's sort of like what we just saw now
on joe rogan
so when i began to look into this i was
coming from a pro-israel perspective
but just wanting the full honest picture
so the information i'll give you now is
is what i found not because i expected
to find it or
wanted to find it but this is what you
discover when you actually look at the
real facts
um her definition of zionism is
is is quite a misrepresentation
um the fact that jews
have the quote right to
self-determination
um misses the point what zionism has
said is that jews have the quote
right to self-determination on someone
else's land
that it they have the right to expel
an entire population so that they can
take it over for a jewish state
that's what zionism was and what it
remains today
so one could even question i'm not sure
presbyterians have a right to their own
state or
zoroastrians have a right to their own
state or
um i'm not sure anyone has a right to
their own state just because we exist we
have a right to exist
i think we have a right to try to bring
up our children in safety and
and to prosper but
zionism zionism was the claim
that it was that jews had the right
and the need to take over someone else's
land
what she leaves out is that when this
movement began
in the late 1800s didn't begin in 1948
it began it was a political movement
that began in the late
1800s most jews around the world
jewish americans jewish jews in europe
jews in the region itself of palestine
did not embrace it most
did not become zionists quite a few
actively opposed it
now she talks about the bible supposedly
endorsing
political zionism no it didn't in fact
the people who have
been some of the most vehement
against zionism from the very beginning
were observant religious jews who
considered this a heresy
yes jews were expelled they believe
it was this was done really by god
the romans did it but they feel that it
was god's will because they had broken
commandments of various types
they'd broken the covenant and therefore
were expelled this
was the theology that was prevalent at
the time that zionism began
and is still held by many observant jews
so this was considered they were not
supposed to go back at the point of a
gun
this was heresy this is not what the
bible decreed or said
so she's inaccurate about that um
she's saying that they came back they
came back well i have ancestors
not fairly re much more recent than 2
000 years ago
who left parts of europe who left
scotland wales germany poland
i don't feel i have the right to go back
and take over
those lands and yet they're talking
about people
um whose aunts some of whose ancestors
left
2 000 years ago and by the way many left
voluntarily
yes there was an expulsion but there
were people that left after that
there were people that came back after
that um
so this is a misrepresentation of
history
i think it's also good to point out that
not every jewish american or jew around
the world has ancestry there
so even even that is is is inaccurate
um she's calling it an indigenous group
well at the time that political zionism
began the jewish population
of palestine was a little under 5
80 of the indigenous population were
muslim
um fifteen percent of the indigenous
population were christian
so this was a movement that planned to
get rid of one way or another
95 percent of the indigenous population
to intentionally get rid of 95 percent
of the indigenous population
so that they could take it over for an
exclusively
ethnic ethno-religious state that's what
zionism was
um she believes she's saying it's the
belief of jews
around the world no it wasn't most jews
in the united states said we're
we're americans we like it here this is
a good place for us we're not interested
in going to some place in the middle
east that we
really feel no connect a religious
connection
um just as christians feel a religious
connection to bethlehem
but we don't feel that we we have the
right or or
or even the desire to go and take over
bethlehem
um so that's that was incorrect
as he implies that this started in 1948
when israel did declare
did unilaterally unilaterally declare
that they were creating
a a jewish state in palestine
the way they did it by the way was was
by
warfare a war of ethnic cleansing
as a you know very good jewish israeli
historian has a book called the ethnic
cleansing of palestine he documents
very thoroughly that this was a war of
ethnic cleansing
that they expelled through force um
at at least three quarters of a million
people
some some have said it was one million
but it was probably
at least three-quarters of a million
people were expelled
through this war of ethnic cleansing and
additional
people were expelled in 1967 and since
that time
so when when zionists say they had the
right
to create a jewish state what they are
saying what they are saying is that they
had the right
to forcibly expel men women and children
from their homes from their ancestral
land
if anybody says israel has the right to
exist what they are saying but most
people don't know this
zionists know it but other people that
say that don't know
they are saying that a political
movement had the right
to forcibly cruelly extremely violently
expel a population from their homes
i don't think anybody has the right to
do that i don't care who they are
i don't think that is a right in fact i
think it is our
uh i'm sorry
i believe i believe it's the world's
obligation anytime that occurs no matter
who's doing it
that it is our obligation to oppose such
injustice
so you know she's trying to say
anti-anti-zionists are
you know she's implying they're
anti-semitic that this is wrong to be
anti-zionists
what anti-zionists mean is that they
support the rights of all
people to remain in their homes they
they support
the the universal belief of human rights
applies to all people
and the palestinians are not an
exception
to those internationally recognized
rights
it is an internationally recognized
right that
refugees have the rights the right to
return to their homes
in wars many people flee their homes
afterwards
they they they had the right and most
return to their homes
when the united states defeated japan
and for a while occupied it
we did not take over the land we did not
expel japanese and say now
this is part of america we've conquered
it we get it
we didn't do that one reason we didn't
do that is it violates international law
you're not allowed to do that according
to international law
we defeated germany we didn't take over
germany and say oh this is now part of
the united states we
we won the war we get it that's not what
we did that's not what is permitted
the only reason israel has permitted to
do it is because
they have wielded massive power through
through the united states
you know might according to them makes
right
but in reality mike does not make right
it gets you
lets you get away with things at least
for a while but it is
does not make it right or ethical or
moral to do that
so i guess that's a short summary of
this issue
wow you really just dismantled uh all of
her the majority what
her arguments uh would you be willing if
joe rogan sees this and he's like okay
you know what i got to be more fair and
balanced
i really got to represent things in the
right way and he reached out to have you
on the program
would you be willing to come on to joe
rogan show
i would love to do that and i think if
he is someone who is attempting to be
fair and honest and my impression
has been that that's the kind of person
he is so if that's who he is he would
invite me to come on
and i'd be very happy to do that so i'm
now
in advance accepting an invitation of
that's what
there you go joe you see we got the
connection made
alison is ready to be on the
joe rogan show to have a more fallen a
more balanced and healthy
discussion on this matter tell us
allison another thing you talk about
as we look at our country here our
beautiful country here many places in
america look you know when you go down
in certain places they look war-torn you
know homelessness poverty
healthcare education on many places just
you know the budget's low
we don't have the money but if we took
tell us you you talk about the
extraordinary amount of money that
actually goes
towards this movement out there and
how much of that money if it was
allocated for these things i mentioned
would actually solve the problems that
we have at home
it's it's huge i mean that's one of the
things when i started looking into this
i was shocked
i discovered how much money we we sent
to israel it's my tax money
normally we know these things um you
know we don't know where all of our
taxes go of course but when there's a
huge
part of it that goes somewhere normally
we would all know that
it's known in the middle east that that
we give this amount
a huge amount of money to israel but
most americans don't know it
as i said it's over ten million dollars
per day per day that works out to
something like seven thousand dollars
per minute i believe it was
and that's not all of it that's just the
money that goes
to israel on top of that are a lot of
additional
allotments some of which go to israel
but many go to
other countries and other projects on
behalf of israel
our tax money was used to buy off the
egyptian government
from supporting palestinian human rights
our tax money has been used to buy off
the jordanian government
from supporting palestinian human rights
and there are other cases
about that i wrote a detailed article
about it
um so that those additional amounts
come to at least nine million dollars
per day so we're talking about now
19 million dollars per day of american
tax money
on behalf of a foreign country
this is bizarre it's it's eclipses the
amount of money we've given to other
countries through the years
i don't remember the exact quantity that
it has amounted to and you always have
to
change that into today's dollars so it's
we're talking about many billions of
dollars i i i think it may be
in the trillions like it's on our
website i don't remember the
exact number right now if people go to
if
americansnew.org they can see all of
these facts and
the website is very trans uh transparent
you can click on things and find out
where the source of the
that particular statistic or fact comes
from
can you share with us the typical day in
life of
palestinians via christian palestinians
muslim palestinians
those people who live in that land that
people don't understand you know their
day-to-day life
and struggles that they go through
a wonderful question because that's
another thing even people that are now
attuned to what just happened
in gaza i think it's over
it's not anywhere near over every single
day there's an excellent website
a news organization called i am emc i'm
actually going to it right this minute
so i can give you pretty much in real
time
um what happened in the last 24 hours or
days weeks months what happened but i
saw this personally
every day israeli forces
invade palestinian towns and villages
every single day
this isn't once every few years the way
the media susp you know suggests
it happens every single day armed
soldiers
go into somebody else's land
land that they're militarily occupying
but it's not their land
and they beat people up they abduct
people they injure people they often
destroy farmers
fields they often destroy farmers
trees they um
often it's it's fairly frequently they
humiliate people injure children
every so often they kill someone this is
what
what daily life is like we made a video
about it because we realized
people have no idea that this is even
going on imagine
you know imagine if where i live in
northern california
armed soldiers would come in and and
parade around invade my house
control our movements perhaps take
take my son that would be not unusual
imprison people for as long as they wish
without any charge
whatsoever israel's is claimed to be the
you know a democracy they violate
democratic
principles all the time they hold people
in prison
without even charging them for a crime
when they do find them quote guilty it's
usually by basically a kangaroo court
so let's look at what happened i'm just
going to scroll through the news reports
from
on by imemc palestinian ramallah dies of
his wounds
from israeli aggression israeli troops
demolished the village
of all village for the 188th
time this happened june 2nd
um israeli troops abduct 17 palestinians
in pre-dawn
raids including a 13-year-old
an israeli soldier shoots a 73 year old
palestinian woman
in the village of yabad southwest of
jannine this is in the northern west
bank
500 new israeli settlers which are
actually israeli colonists
arrive in palestine soldiers bulldoze
palestinian land
near nablus that's the northern west
bank that's
palestinian land they've now bulldozed
it
demolished a tent two barns and
confiscated solar panels near hebron
that's in the west bank
this goes on and on and on what website
is this what what uh news agency is this
work it it's i am emc
dot org news it's a international
international middle east media
center okay this is where people can go
you won't find none of this on uh
cnn or abc nbc huh no
and this is going on every day it's
documented every day
why don't we see this on cnn abc nbc
mainstream
media well i i think there are
several reasons one reason is that
mainstream media give
gives us israeli centric reporting
um that's the simple matter
they don't give us neutral reporting
they don't give us what i feel is
objective reporting
they they they're very centered on on
israel
um they're reporters in the region the
associated press the oldest and largest
news
agency in the world its bureau to cover
this issue is in israel
most of its staff members are jewish and
or israelis
so they have i feel they have
a very very biased way of reporting
there are some exceptions
always there's you know every rule has
an exception so this isn't 100
but that's the basic trend the other
thing is
that it's it's not the oddity of this
is that people in the region
that that includes journalists know that
this goes on every day
so to them that's you know news is what
happens that's
unusual so when there's a major
a major invasion of gaza for example
that's news to them
oh that happens every day oh they
they abducted you know 13 people they
shot a woman
they bulldozed people's land that's not
news because it happens every day
so to them it's not news because it
happens every day
but to americans it would be news
because they have no idea
this happens every day
we're almost out of time uh i just
wanted to
finish off with mentioning that you also
talk about
tell us i did a video talking about
the holocaust survivor
dr gabor mate he's one example
of a person who is just speaking truth
uh he sees the many injustices that are
going on over there he's jewish
um just illustrating this point this is
not about being anti-jewish
anti-israeli you also have
my friend i consider mikko pillet i
don't know if you've heard of him he
wrote the book called the general son
you have i've had rabbi weiss on the
program orthodox jew
and then you also have people from the
military there
and others who are protesting this uh
who refuse orders
so talk about this also this um this
element that also
the human element because this is a
human thing you know when you see
babies you know children being you know
blown to
to pieces i mean just the if if the
human doesn't come out of you then what
do you have left uh
can you comment on this yes i i think
that's very important it's um
there is there is dissent in israel
there are soldiers that have refused to
take part
in what the military is doing both
high-ranking soldiers and young soldiers
this has gone on for many years there
are many jewish americans and jewish
people around the world who are
actively and publicly dissenting now in
the united states the jewish
establishment
every major national jewish organization
supports and advocates for israel that's
the sad
reality you can go through the list we
have the list
on our website so they try to portray it
as
as all jews support and advocate
for what israel is doing which is a
terrible thing to try to tell people
because then when people see what israel
did in gaza
they're being told oh all jews support
that and that is not the case
the jewish leadership i'm sad to say
does is they publicly advocate for
israel time after time
but that does not represent the whole
jewish population at
all and it never has
if someone wants to learn more joe rogan
wants to get in contact with you he sees
the program he's like you know what
uh the human side kicks in he's like i i
got to get to the truth and he wants to
have an academic a scholar in this area
someone like yourself on uh how can
anyone get a hold of you or to learn
more or joe rogan
to uh you can make it happen i would
love it to happen our website is
if americans new dot org if
question if americans new dot org
um contact information is there an email
address a phone number
i also hope people will read my book
it's called
against our better judgment it's
available on amazon
it sold over 50 000 copies despite
diverse efforts to suppress the book
we've
you know it's been an amazon bestseller
in a number of categories
it goes into a history of of
the the subtitle is what the full title
is if
the full title is against our better
judgment
the hidden history of how the us was
used
to create israel so this gate gives a
background to this issue
that very few people knew i it's fully
cited in fact the book is over half
footnotes so everything in the book i
provide the source
citation i hope people will look at that
if you don't remember the title it's a
long one
if you go to ifamericansnew.org
the the book you can there's a link to
the book there
thank you so much god bless you thank
you so much allison for being with us
here on the dean's show i think we can
have you back again sometime thank you
thank you
thank you for having me thank you go
ahead and subscribe right now hit that
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to get our numbers back
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this number here a 55 combined what we
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we should be over a million 200
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numbers back to where they should be
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